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Venger
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 04:45:49
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SPOILER! Do not proceed any further if you don't want to be spoiled.
Bhaal is back.
That is all. You may now commence with the cheering and the high five's.
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/artattack/high-five.jpg
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"Beware what you say when you speak of magic, wizard, or you shall see who has the greater power." |
Edited by - Venger on 18 Aug 2013 09:11:18
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 06:02:17
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| I shan't commence with cheering, nor with high-fives. I like Bhaal best as a fallen and long-dead deity, and I like Myrkul best as a former deity who is happy to still be around causing trouble without the responsibility of being a deity. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Venger
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 06:31:20
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Well, I will, because I prefer the "Dead" Three as the Formerly-Dead-But-Now-Very-Much-Active Three.  |
"Beware what you say when you speak of magic, wizard, or you shall see who has the greater power." |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 06:44:52
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Pish am a hipster forgotten realms fan
I want the original lost dead gods. Borem , |
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Venger
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 06:49:38
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| And like a true hipster, if they brought Borem back, you'd probably declare him too mainstream and move on to someone else. |
"Beware what you say when you speak of magic, wizard, or you shall see who has the greater power." |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 06:54:40
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| Nah Man, his to dirty to be mainstream, only the clean go that way. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 09:03:04
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| Although I already knew he was back...thanks for the spoiler title that ruined it for anyone that didn't know. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Venger
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 09:10:20
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| Ruined what? Something which people are going to find out any day now, anyway? It's not as if it's a plot point for an upcoming book, novel, or movie, or it's even a question of an upcoming adventure, because that adventure apparently straight out says Bhaal is back. Knowing that Bhaal's coming back doesn't ruin any cliffhangers to anything. But hey, if you think that's such a major spoiler that it needs a spoiler alert, I went ahead and edited the title. |
"Beware what you say when you speak of magic, wizard, or you shall see who has the greater power." |
Edited by - Venger on 18 Aug 2013 09:12:36 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 09:36:49
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| Sorry, that does look a bit snarky doesn't it. I should have added a so folks would realize it a joke on my part. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 11:46:38
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*high fives Venger*
and now there is hoping Cyric loses in power |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
Edited by - Lord Bane on 18 Aug 2013 11:46:56 |
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Venger
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 12:22:29
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LOL, thanks for the high five! Now here's hoping Myrkul comes back, too, and we can get the band back together. If he does I'm going to dance a jig to this song, cause damn it, I've been waiting for a long, long time, and I ain't gonna wait no mo'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvL8xPxUwSU&feature=youtu.be&t=15s
As for Cyric, all he really needs are Lies, Murder, and Strife. That's more than enough for him to remain a Greater God and still define him as the god he's supposed to be. Deception and Illusion can easily be returned to a resurrected Leira while Mask reclaims Intrigue. |
"Beware what you say when you speak of magic, wizard, or you shall see who has the greater power." |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 12:26:47
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| Murder belongs to Bhaal. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 13:33:38
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| So we should have a pet-name for The Sundering now... the un-ToT! |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Venger
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 13:36:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
Murder belongs to Bhaal.
They could always give him something like Assassination, Poison, and Ritual Murder (Talona can make do with simply Disease). Or, if he's an Exarch/Demigod and they use the rules that gods of that rank can hold portfolios possessed by other gods, then yeah, he could have Murder, Death, and whatever else. |
"Beware what you say when you speak of magic, wizard, or you shall see who has the greater power." |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 18:25:55
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the Lord of murder shall perish, in his wake a score of mortal prodigy, so sayeth the wise aluando......
the Lord of Murder has perished, the True Lord of murder has returned.
Come Cyric, come get murdered..... and or be left with Lies like the lying fool you are. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 18:40:29
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Having played the launch weekend adventure (to start off Murder in Baldur's Gate), I won't go into anything apoilery. But I will say, the way they bring back Bhaal is really pretty neat. It draws upon lore elements from the original game as well as plot points of BG2-SoA and BG3 Throne of Bhaal. Several characters from the game are active in the adventure, some surprising.
And it all makes sense. Nothing is retconned, there are no bad plot devices in motion. It just makes sense, and is both nostalgic and fresh at the same time.
They really did pull it off, and it was FUN to play! It also sets the stage for making the Boxed Set very useful.
And I'm -glad- Bhaal is back. He was one of the most interesting deities and could be used for all kinds of evil plots. 
EDIT: obviously there's no BG3... derp! I meant Throne of Bhaal.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 19 Aug 2013 03:25:32 |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 20:29:00
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BG3?
Sadly that game does not exist. Maybe you mistake it with Throne of Bhaal which was an expansion? |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2013 : 23:47:24
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragonthe Lord of murder shall perish, in his wake a score of mortal prodigy, so sayeth the wise aluando......
I think of a different quote when I think of Bhaal, the one were he crashes down battered and bleeding after being forcefully dragged through the lower planes and it's denizens and powers laughing at his broken from
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
the Lord of Murder has perished, the True Lord of murder has returned.
Come Cyric, come get murdered..... and or be left with Lies like the lying fool you are.
Maybe Cyric could use a lapdog if Bhaal is lucky
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Having played the launch weekend adventure (to start off Murder in Baldur's Gate), I won't go into anything apoilery. But I will say, the way they bring back Bhaal is really pretty neat. It draws upon lore elements from the original game as well as plot points of BG2 and BG3. Several characters from the game are active in the adventure, some surprising.
And it all makes sense. Nothing is retconned, there are no bad plot devices in motion. It just makes sense, and is both nostalgic and fresh at the same time.
I found it rather quick and cheap
Adventure immediately beginning with two guys fighting and no matter who wins Bhaal is back before the adventure even really started. No big climax or having him return during the course of the adventure or anything big. Just Bhaal being back before we even started to play. And his first manifestation after his rebirth being defeated by a level 1 party isn't really flattering (although fitting with regard to how Bhaal all the time got his ### handed to him as a deity, e.g. Moonshae debacle) |
Edited by - Mirtek on 18 Aug 2013 23:51:44 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4426 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 00:14:47
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| So does this mean that Assassins will be a properly supported base class in D&D:Next and not have to worry about being killed off again? |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 03:22:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
BG3?
Sadly that game does not exist. Maybe you mistake it with Throne of Bhaal which was an expansion?
Yes, I meant throne of Bhaal. It's been a while.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 03:28:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
I found it rather quick and cheap
The launch event is meant to be fairly quick because it's formatted like D&D Encounters. Even so, I'm not sure what your DM was doing, it really wasn't as quick as you described.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 04:33:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Venger
That is all. You may now commence with the cheering and the high fives.
That is good news.
Curious: was this something predetermined? What I mean is, did the adventures at GenCon or through encounters have any effect on Bhaal's return?
EDIT: I found my answer HERE. And of course Venger's initial spoiler warning applies just as much to this link as anything else in this scroll.
Also, the supplementary (and free) downloads for the Murder in Baldur's Gate adventure can be found here |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 19 Aug 2013 06:16:06 |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 14:47:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Venger
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
Murder belongs to Bhaal.
They could always give him something like Assassination, Poison, and Ritual Murder (Talona can make do with simply Disease). Or, if he's an Exarch/Demigod and they use the rules that gods of that rank can hold portfolios possessed by other gods, then yeah, he could have Murder, Death, and whatever else.
Assassination should belong to the Lord of shadows, Mask. Bhaal better keep his blood stained, grubby hands off it. |
Edited by - Thauranil on 19 Aug 2013 14:49:04 |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 14:59:33
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| Never! Bhaal would kill Mask for that if the Thief god was not still dead |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 15:09:07
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Mask is not exactly dead, not when three beings (two of whom are his Chosen) still carry his divine spark. And the excerpts of The Godborn (that Paul kindly shared) hint at his imminent return from “hibernation.” |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 16:14:41
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quote:
Assassination should belong to the Lord of shadows, Mask. Bhaal better keep his blood stained, grubby hands off it.
In all seriousness, the tendency is for thieve's and assassin's guilds to be separate entities...though the two being a single guild (and coming under a single deity) is somewhat logical. Still, I prefer Bhaal to return as the Lord of Murder and patron of assassins. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 18:00:59
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Just to clarify something really quick: there are (were?) at least TWO products called "Murder in Baldur's Gate" that I've seen. The first is the big city campaign guide (and if you've seen the photos of Sernett's author copy floating around, that's that). It's also the one you could buy at Amazon or wherever. Big campaign set. The online "supplementary materials" you can download are for this.
There's also the "Launch Event Murder in Baldur's Gate" product that was played at GenCon and (I think, pretty sure) will be available for gaming stores that host D&D Encounters. It's an expanded version of the initial event that is seen in the campaign guide/set.
There was also an exclusive (to GenCon) adventure (which included basic 5E D&D rules) called Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle, which is sort of a mini-campaign starting in the Daggerford region. And there was a GenCon play event called "Confrontation at Candlekeep" as well.
So there were lots of inter-related things that happened at GenCon (or that you could buy) which are all tied into the Sundering in various ways. The main thing I'd stress is that this is really just the beginning of the Sundering and it will unfold over months.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Alenis
Acolyte
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 04:13:28
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Even though I really liked Bhaal as a deity, I'm not really happy about his return. It sort of destroys the point of the whole epic adventure of ensuring he didn't come back by the Bhaal-spawn. It cheapens the importance of the destruction of this or that deity when they can always just come back when sales are flagging.
Just seems too Marvel-ish to me. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 11:34:10
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Well, having swaths of deities killed like they were idiots with no backplan is cheapening, and not only for the story but for the characters themselves. Removing a setting element (gods included) without replacing it with something as flavourful and without a logic story behind it (and ''deities suddenly decide that starting killing each other is a smart idea'' is not, IMO) just weakens the setting, as it removes depth from it.
When you have deities dying for things like divine love triangles, you have already cheapened them to the ground.
One of the purposes of the Sundering is restoring valid elements that were unjustly removed, and this includes deities. Ater that, they can be made less cheap and more godly, as they should be. Of course, good stories should be used to motivate the return of the gods, but I'm sure that the FR development team can do it.
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Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Venger
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 12:57:02
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Yeah, one of the problems I had with the 2E transition was Cyric becoming the end-all and be-all of evil gods. The guy absorbed the portfolios of Bane, Myrkul, and Bhaal, not to mention killing Leira and taking her stuff, as well as eventually snatching Intrigue off of Mask. That doesn't expand story opportunities, but instead constricts them, because instead of having five different gods with five different agendas and five different churches, you've got one god with one agenda and one church.
I like Cyric as a god, but not at the expense of Bane, Bhaal, Myrkul, Leira, or Kelemvor. Personally I was ecstatic when Cyric started shedding power and Kelemvor became God of the Dead in his place, and later when Bane came back in 3E, and now we're getting Bhaal. Hopefully we'll end up getting Myrkul and Leira, too. A Realms which has Cyric, Bane, Bhaal, Myrkul, Kelemvor, and Leira as gods, each with their owns goals, motivations, and agents, is far more interesting than one in which Cyric holds all of their combined power and it's just the Church of Cyric all the time. |
"Beware what you say when you speak of magic, wizard, or you shall see who has the greater power." |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 12:58:07
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
quote:
Assassination should belong to the Lord of shadows, Mask. Bhaal better keep his blood stained, grubby hands off it.
In all seriousness, the tendency is for thieve's and assassin's guilds to be separate entities...though the two being a single guild (and coming under a single deity) is somewhat logical. Still, I prefer Bhaal to return as the Lord of Murder and patron of assassins.
They can easily be incorporated into one guild and as you said it would make sense to do so. Indeed in many series there is just one big crime guild/gang and frankly that is generally how it has been in our own society as well.
Many assassins already worship Mask , even his first and second are both pretty much assassins( Erevis and Riven).
Also murder and assassination are different things. Murder is generally emotional or done for kicks but assassination is always done with a logical purpose in mind. As such it is a portfolio that belongs to a cold and ruthless killer like Mask more than a blood and guts god like Bhaal. |
Edited by - Thauranil on 20 Aug 2013 13:02:12 |
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_____ is Back
