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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Jul 2013 : 16:58:50
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What realm is the harshest in terms of implementing capital punishment? By harsh, I mean sentencing someone to death who’s committed a crime that’s likely just minor or petty in most realms, like stealing a coin from a foreigner.
Also, how do they “qualify” a crime to merit capital punishment? Is it something along these lines: “He steals a coin now, but who knows what else he’s going to steal in the future? Something big? Something important? Something that can put the entire realm in grave danger? The impulse to steal is already there. Better cut it for good. By death”?
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 06 Jul 2013 16:48:56
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 00:34:22
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Thay may turn you into a zombie just becuase they can or minor issue against someone with power.
If we are not going off of, well they are evil, or they are good.
It is really hard to decide who has the harshest, as it is something usually ignored when world building, and if you have an evil align city, then they all sort of do the same thing as for being harsh.
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 04:16:21
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In the places where relatively minor crimes (petty thievery) are punishable by death I'd imagine them either justifying it as "preserving the stability of the realm" or some such excuse, or else adding on additional imagined (and unsolved) crimes to the criminals they do catch. Also, if it needed justifying a petty thief could always be secretly an agent of an outside enemy (and a place tyrannical enough to be able to impose the death penalty for minor crimes would certainly have or make outside enemies for the populace to hate and fear), or of subversive elements within their own borders in the official report to the people.
If you frame it right you aren't executing Bob the light-fingered merchant guard. Instead you're bringing to justice Bob, agent of the evil [insert enemy group/nation here], who was funneling funds and information to [insert name of a specific opponent leader here] and who had something to do with that horrible business involving [insert unsolved local major crime here]. Bob, whose hidden plans to [insert imagined atrocity here], would have been carried out if not for our tireless [insert name of your peacekeeping/investigating organization here] who discovered [insert manufactured evidence here] which proves his guilt.
As for the other part of your question, I'm not sure what places would routinely use the death penalty for minor crimes. I could see it in the Border Kingdoms, there are always new realms popping up, a power mad tyrant could easily come to power there and impose extremely harsh laws. Luskan I remember, in some Driz'zt book or another, had this sort of entertainment execution thing going on where they used horrible death penalties for criminals to entertain the population and take care of any prisoners they had. I can't think of any other places that would just kill minor criminals, even in Zhentil Keep or Thay I think they'd have other punishments like labor for the state or even being made a slave, but perhaps in places full of evil, experimental wizards some minor criminals are used as guinea pigs for spell research (basically a death sentence). |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 04:51:26
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| Prisoners Carnival, a vicious show run by the Magistrate Jarkheld, where felons (even ones innocent of the crimes accused of) were tortured in various fashions until they admitted to the crimes accused of, so that they might be killed swiftly. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 05:56:21
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Thay may turn you into a zombie just becuase they can or minor issue against someone with power.
Life and unlife are very important in Thay. Thus, they would rather make those criminals slaves than kill them swiftly. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 06:41:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Thay may turn you into a zombie just becuase they can or minor issue against someone with power.
Life and unlife are very important in Thay. Thus, they would rather make those criminals slaves than kill them swiftly.
says who? a zombie breaks ground with a pick axe much better then a living person. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 07:15:03
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I was thinking of old, pre-Szass Tam Thay when I posted above comment. Necromancy was not the only school around. Some zulkirs mistrusted the undead (especially those not allied with Szass Tam), and so they would rather have live slaves than mindless zombies that Szass Tam could easily manipulate to turn against them.
Anyway, how about Kara-Tur? Given its blatant similarity to ancient China (which implemented capital punishment rather more often than other territories) . . . |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 06 Jul 2013 07:37:00 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 07:16:53
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| In Luthcheq you get executed for being a mage, in Hillsfar for being an elf, or dwarf. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 07:25:23
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I was not referring to racial or class discrimination.
There has to be a precedence, in this case, a crime (however minor or petty), that merits capital punishment. And by crime, I mean an action, not just a state of being (where racial/class discrimination falls in). |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 06 Jul 2013 07:27:04 |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 07:30:07
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| kara tur , have a very formal way of doing things ritual, and all that. So I imagine while any sort of punishment may be cruel, that they may have a a system of justice at the very least. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 07:40:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I was not referring to racial or class discrimination.
ok, in Waterdeep you get executed for impersonating a Lord |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 07:46:54
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
kara tur , have a very formal way of doing things ritual, and all that. So I imagine while any sort of punishment may be cruel, that they may have a a system of justice at the very least.
All civilized realms have their own “system of justice.” They differ, however, in their treatment to what’s considered a crime or just a mere breach in etiquette. I suppose in some places, the rich have so much power that they can do almost anything they deem justifiable, including slaying a poor boy who inadvertently dirtied the dress of their daughter. No questions asked. No hearing needed. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 08:43:35
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Dennis are you sure it will take 2 years to reach 10,000?
As to society that has harsh laws, Lolthian cities clearly should be listed among top of death because of minor crimes. Look at a Priestess in the wrong way you die. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Ze
Learned Scribe
Italy
147 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 09:09:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
ok, in Waterdeep you get executed for impersonating a Lord
... and we've seen that you can even get away with that and just get exiled, if you are noble-born and with influent acquaintances...
So I wouldn't define Waterdeep's execution laws as "harsh".
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 10:33:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Dennis are you sure it will take 2 years to reach 10,000?
Okay, let us make that one year, eleven months, and three weeks.
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
As to society that has harsh laws, Lolthian cities clearly should be listed among top of death because of minor crimes. Look at a Priestess in the wrong way you die.
I am inclined to agree. Though I often think of Lolthian cities as contained anarchy. What laws they create, they themselves break, which is ultimately still lawful because they worship the goddess of chaos. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 13:49:02
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| I believe that many cities in Calimshan have harsh laws which are no doubt administered in a heavy handed and brutal manner. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 16:56:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Dennis are you sure it will take 2 years to reach 10,000?
Okay, let us make that one year, eleven months, and three weeks.
Rough math indicates if posting average is maintained, more like 2 to 3 months. Maybe you should start planning. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2013 : 17:20:39
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Perhaps. But I am not sure if I can maintain that average. Unlike before, when I dropped by and posted almost every day, I hardly get to visit these halls, or any other forums (where I used to be very active) for that matter. Lots of things keep me occupied these days. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2013 : 09:52:47
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How about theocracies?
Not just policing from the dogma as given (which is at least understandable) - but knowing how fast (Tantras!) they end up claiming whatever the left toe of the local high priest wants to be "the decree of gods"... well... |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2013 : 11:37:23
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Good point. But like everything else, theocracies also differ from one another. For “harsh” theocratic societies, the Lolthian cities, as Kentianl pointed out, rank among them, probably the topmost. There’s also Olleth, now ruled by the Kuo-tao who worship the evil, surface-dweller-hating Sea Mother, Blibdoolpoolp. However, some theocracies are devoted to lawful and neutral good gods and therefore facilitate justice as their faith demands, which is, understandably, not quite harsh. Among them are Elturgard, Luiren, and Uzurr, whose patron deities are Torm, Yondalla, and Ilmater, respectively. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Topic |
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Capital Punishment
