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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1412 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2013 :  22:00:15  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
In the Volo's Guide to the North the legend of the Moondark Mountains, an ancient elven cluster of magic-rich citadels, whose inhabitants apparently left the world through Spelljamming. Have any newer lore been published that confirms those tales, and that says of which elven realms those citadels were part? And I've also noted that the name of the temple of Solonor the Archer God in Evereska is "Moondark Hill". Is there any connections between those places that you know about?

EDIT: clarifications

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)

Edited by - Barastir on 19 Jun 2013 22:08:33

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4920 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2013 :  02:05:05  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nope, not that I know of.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1366 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2013 :  03:11:57  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would guess they come from Aryvandaar and the Vyshaan Empire times due to their location. Of course, it's entirely possible they were created by the "good" guys too. I seem to remember Khelben having some sort of secret library or place far in the North.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1412 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2013 :  11:43:54  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you both... Maybe I should take this question to Ed's scroll. And yes, I was thinking of ne of the old realms of the North, since the citadels are in those mountains that are in the Spine of the World. But maybe it was even older, from the times of Sharlario or of the winged elves - another persistent tale there in the North.

EDIT: Lady THO said that I hit an NDA here, although she says it's something that seems to be soon revealed. And George, your "no" refered to both questions, about new lore on the mountains and about the relation between them and Solonor's temple?

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)

Edited by - Barastir on 24 Jun 2013 13:24:22
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4920 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2013 :  01:13:12  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My "no" was to both. There's nothing in the published sources and my (albeit limited) knowledge of the unpublished floating stuff doesn't mention them either. I've no idea as to what NDA is in place for them either.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1412 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2013 :  13:24:37  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok, thank you for your response!

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1412 Posts

Posted - 06 Sep 2017 :  19:33:59  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
- casts RAISE SCROLL -

Hey fellow sages,

Are there any news about this issue? Besides, could the Moondark Mountains be the ruins linked to the Dracorage Mythal?

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2907 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2017 :  15:00:13  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting. Secret Elven Citadels...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4920 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2017 :  17:04:09  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When Eric Boyd and I were playing with the North we had discussed the Moondark elves as being the "loyalist" elves that turned on the Vyshaan of Aryvandaar from within and assisted in the downfall of the realm. They were however effectively traitors to their kingdom and coronal and so went into self-imposed exile in the Moondarks, not seeking to mix with any other subsequent or existing elves (although it is believed that elements of the ruling elite of Siluvanede tried to court them when they had their "issues" with Sharrven and Eaerlann - and were sternly rebuffed). None of this is canon of course - you are free to do with them what you will.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2017 :  17:25:58  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love that idea. Its now in my canon.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30338 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2017 :  17:53:21  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

When Eric Boyd and I were playing with the North we had discussed the Moondark elves as being the "loyalist" elves that turned on the Vyshaan of Aryvandaar from within and assisted in the downfall of the realm. They were however effectively traitors to their kingdom and coronal and so went into self-imposed exile in the Moondarks, not seeking to mix with any other subsequent or existing elves (although it is believed that elements of the ruling elite of Siluvanede tried to court them when they had their "issues" with Sharrven and Eaerlann - and were sternly rebuffed). None of this is canon of course - you are free to do with them what you will.

-- George Krashos



I like that idea. It could also be easily used as the backstory for the Rockseer elves of the old Night Below boxed set, if one wanted to use them in the Realms -- though I am, admittedly, not overly fond of intro'ing another niche race into the Realms.

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 07 Sep 2017 18:02:36
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6094 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2017 :  13:01:07  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm inclined to go another path. One of the things I've posited is that the "elves" on the surface of the moon are actually the "ellefolk" or a group of the fey that escaped the "Plane of Shadow", but not the ones that were entrapped in Ravenloft and took on the racial name of "Arak" after the person that helped them escape. These moondark mountains might be where these "ellefolk" tried to establish a surface world community before retreating back to the moon. It would explain their spelljamming links quite easily (though that's not hard to do with regular elves either).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2907 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2017 :  16:55:07  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What page is that on btw?

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1489 Posts

Posted - 12 Sep 2017 :  21:59:56  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir

Are there any news about this issue?

The only big news since then was "The Moondark Mystery" article in Forging the Realms series (lost, but see here).
Short version: that's where Moondark himself was buried, but it happened so long ago that the local elves forgot this.

quote:
Besides, could the Moondark Mountains be the ruins linked to the Dracorage Mythal?

Amusing, but unlikely. I mean, what would be the sequence of events?

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14387 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2017 :  00:21:00  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hypothesis:

Not directly related, but when I was (re)doing the map of Evereska for Eric Boyd it made me start to think about something that always troubled me about the place in the back of my mind. I don't really like thinking about elves (they're not my 'cup of tea'), so the only time something nags at me like that is when its geography related, and in this case, we have a group of elves living in mountains. Taint natural, I tell ya!

Now, as I've just said, I never put any thought into it - it was more like a 'an itch I couldn't scratch', but now you've mentioned spelljamming elves, and a lightbulb went off in my head. I think those 'mountains' are of the same nature as the Star Mounts... they are not of this world. Those elves are sitting on top of something, perhaps guarding it (and they may have even 'arrived' with it).

And its called 'Moondark' Hill. It doesn't really get any better than that.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 13 Sep 2017 00:21:56
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4920 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2017 :  05:20:52  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There isn't a connection. Ed has told me what's under the Greycloak Hills and it's not ancient elves.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2017 :  08:33:25  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wish I could "persuade" you or Ed to give me the knowledge of what is under the Greycloak Hills.

Now when is the next GenCon (and a bumper paycheck so I can afford to go) so I can begin planning my scheme to kidnap and hypnotise people into divulging all the realmslore they keep locked in their head.

If it isn't ancient elves then that rules out Vyshaan (although that's already been done).

Any clues on where we might find information to puzzle out what is under there?

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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1489 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2017 :  16:12:19  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I wish I could "persuade" you or Ed to give me the knowledge of what is under the Greycloak Hills.
[...]
Any clues on where we might find information to puzzle out what is under there?

In short, outskirts of a smouldering war zone in Underdark.
Immediately (per Return of the Archwizards) to the East is the Sharn Wall - Phaerimm themselves can't walk out (until RotA), but...
Uncomfortably close at North-West are Greypeak Mts. More or less on top of former Ammarindar, and after the dwarves were gone those tunnels are still inhabited and contested.
Below these mountains: a known beholder hive.
West of the mountains: Ched Nasad (middledark - drow, after its fall also shadow half-dragons).
East of the mountains: ruins of Mines of Dekanter, where "Beast Lord" (an illitilich) musters an army (mostly goblins and gargoyles) to conquer the nearby caverns, and also fights Harpers, presumably because they interfere with its attempts to gather more thralls.
North of the mountains: Yathclol (middledark - chitines). Farther North: ruins of Hellgate Keep (upperdark/surface). North of that: orc caverns of Nether Mts.
Both minions of Phaerimm and fiends (and tieflings) of Hellgate Keep repeatedly wander far enough to have border skirmishes with Ched Nasad...
Yeah, looks like a fun place.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3545 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2017 :  17:57:30  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Elves couldnt be guarding any of those things though and im pretty sure what is under there is really really really really old

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6094 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2017 :  02:13:48  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

There isn't a connection. Ed has told me what's under the Greycloak Hills and it's not ancient elves.

-- George Krashos



Its the infamous Grey Cloak!!!!! Dun Duh Dun!!!

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1489 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2017 :  11:13:49  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Elves couldnt be guarding any of those things though and im pretty sure what is under there is really really really really old

Elves at very least guard those tombs.
From anything that may come from below, among the other possibilities.
Though maybe used an opportunity to hide a few nastier artefacts around, too. If they had to store something useful and wholesome, they'd probably do it inside the nearby mythal.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30338 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2017 :  13:57:04  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They may not be guarding as much as containing.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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