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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Mar 2013 : 07:00:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Drizztsmanchild
It also says Artemis "killed" Drizzt in Neverwinter when they meet up ( referring to the battle in The Silent Blade). So it still really can't be taken seriously yet. :-)
In Neverwinter, it says that Entreri claimed to have killed Drizzt in that fight in The Silent Blade, and when Drizzt thought back to that fight, he realized, Entreri's claim was correct. We are both: 1) told a claim by one of the characters, and 2) given confirmation of that claim.
Drizzt was dead. Entreri killed him to death.
What is still up in the air is how dead is "killed". Jarlaxle resorted to some heroic measures to bring Drizzt back, which obviously worked. So what was the extent of Drizzt's death back then?
And what exactly did Jarlaxle do about it?
That stuff gets into the technicalities of the game (raise from the dead, resurrection, etc.), and therefore is beyond me.
Methinks Drizzt's body was medically dead, but his soul had not yet departed his corpse. Jarlaxle's heroics served to repair and revive Drizzt's body before the ranger's soul headed off to the Fugue Plane (or Iruladoon, or wherever).
Now, some questions, here: how exactly is the passage worded where we're told that Dahlia had slain him? Is it just a claim by one of the characters? Is it just a character's perspective or interpretation of events? Or do we get a god's-eye-view omniscient narrator's confirmation of it?
(I don't need answers, here. I'll find out for myself whenever I read it. I'm just offering up some food for thought, as you re-read it.) |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2013 : 07:12:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Euranna
I have seen how this story is such a replay of his life. I cannot remember the name of the elf he saved on his blooding excursion, but he did not kill her for the same reason. He was saved by his friends, even when he was being dumb.
I cannot wait until August. I have a lot to chew on.
Ellifain Tuuserail, aka Le'lorinel Tel'e'brenequiette.
Hell, how many humans has he spared, by merely slapping with the flats of his blades, when he would've instantly run through orcs or goblins in the same situations? He has wavered or gone soft during fights countless times throughout his life, because of his morals.
Heh, "saved by his friends"? Funny you should mention that. What if they somehow were able to observe or sense him from Iruladoon, and somehow reached out to him and spared him? What if they missed him and brought him to be with them? What if they saved him, one more time?
This is totally conjecture on my part about what all this means. But at least it's based, like you said, on his past track record.
Plus, it's late, and I'm not thinking too straight anymore.  |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2013 : 07:25:02
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Beast.. we had that debate before with both of us being right in our views somewhat:)
I know you didn't ask for an answer. .I hope you don't mind if I give it to you anyway:)
In this instance..it is entirely from Drizzt's viewpoint. It isn't confirmed by any other source:). |
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Euranna
Learned Scribe
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2013 : 15:05:29
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@Beast: Even if it was late, your mind was thinking along the same as mine. Once you read the book, I would love to know if your thougts are still the same.
As far as game mechanics on the previous possible death of Drizzt: there is a spell that can bring someone back from the dead if you can cast it on them in one round. It is a 3e Spell (Breath of Life if I remember correctly), but I think it was Kimm that brought him back. But I am sure there could be a psy power to do the same thing.
In essense, before the soul leaves the body, you get it back to 0 HP. Since Drizzt had no notion that he was dead until long after (he knew he was jacked up), I would think this would be the game mechanic that would closely tie to it. Of course, it is a novel and they do not have to follow rules of the game. |
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Yoss
Learned Scribe
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2013 : 15:14:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Drizztsmanchild
Beast.. we had that debate before with both of us being right in our views somewhat:)
I know you didn't ask for an answer. .I hope you don't mind if I give it to you anyway:)
In this instance..it is entirely from Drizzt's viewpoint. It isn't confirmed by any other source:).
Also, the others look but can't even find a body. No body, no crime, right? |
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Euranna
Learned Scribe
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2013 : 15:20:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Yoss
quote:
In this instance..it is entirely from Drizzt's viewpoint. It isn't confirmed by any other source:).
Also, the others look but can't even find a body. No body, no crime, right?
I think I hinted at that earlier. Blood only does not prove death..and there was no loot. |
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Yoss
Learned Scribe
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2013 : 15:52:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Euranna
quote:
Originally posted by Yoss
quote:
In this instance..it is entirely from Drizzt's viewpoint. It isn't confirmed by any other source:).
Also, the others look but can't even find a body. No body, no crime, right?
I think I hinted at that earlier. Blood only does not prove death..and there was no loot.
Sorry, I think I missed a page of posts. |
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Euranna
Learned Scribe
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2013 : 19:33:46
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| It was going pretty quick, and I was trying to be sly and all. I guess my roll was really good and I was totally sly and sneaky. ;) |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1265 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2013 : 21:11:51
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Hmm? In Silent Blade Drizzt wasn't killed, Kimmuriel's psionics made Artemis think that Drizzt was dead from the blow (that was Kimmuriel's kinetic energy shield's doing, not Artemis by the way); but Drizzt was just really really wounded. Then Rai-Guy who was a wizard-cleric multi-class character healed Drizzt from the brink of death, praying to Lloth to do so which should have been blasphemy at the time. In 2e game mechanics, you can heal someone who is unconscious but not dead (eg not -10 or further hit points).
Instant teleportation, memory wiping, mind reading, charming, artifact rebuilding, faking deaths, absorbtion of *any* magic or phyiscal attack, you name it- Kimmuriel can do it. Thank god he can't time travel (yet). Starting to grate on me, using Kimmuriel as such. He's my favourite character but the use of him as Deus Ex Machina is growing old. I hope he doesn't get killed! |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2013 : 22:45:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Hmm? In Silent Blade Drizzt wasn't killed, Kimmuriel's psionics made Artemis think that Drizzt was dead from the blow (that was Kimmuriel's kinetic energy shield's doing, not Artemis by the way); but Drizzt was just really really wounded. Then Rai-Guy who was a wizard-cleric multi-class character healed Drizzt from the brink of death, praying to Lloth to do so which should have been blasphemy at the time. In 2e game mechanics, you can heal someone who is unconscious but not dead (eg not -10 or further hit points).
That's what we were told back then in TSB.
Then we were told this, more recently:
quote:
"You should be long dead," he [Drizzt] said.
"So should you," Artemis Entreri replied. "I killed you in a crystal tower, in single combat."
Drizzts mind flew back to that moment. Jarlaxle had arranged the duel, in a magical tower chamber full of obstacles--props for the showdown between mortal enemies. Drizzt believed he had the fight won, but Entreri had countered with some magic against which Drizzt, caught so unprepared, had no practical defense. Entreris claim was correct: He had killed Drizzt in that tower the last time the two had crossed paths, and crossed swords, and only the intervention of Jarlaxle and his companion, a mighty mind-mage from Menzoberranzan, had brought Drizzt back from the edge of oblivion. (bold added; Neverwinter, P2:C15)
It says right there that Entreri's claim was correct: he killed Drizzt.
Jarlaxle and Kimmuriel brought Drizzt back from oblivion. I'm guessing that means that they initiated magical spells to keep Drizzt's soul from departing his dead body. Rai'gy must've then used his Lolthite healing spells to restore Drizzt's body.
That's what we have been told most recently. So that's The Word, for now.
Might we be told something differently in the future? Perhaps. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2013 : 05:02:54
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Erm...so yeah, I was just on the RAS website, and there is a forum discussion going on about this very thing (you'll of course recognize it, BEAST, and my comment here is going to be basically be the same I just posted there). Someone read another interview, and apparently, the next book takes place in 1463, the same year TLT starts. That's...a gap, and it still suggests that Drizzt's story essentially ends in TLT, and the Companions is just backtracking. Considering the Sundering doesn't happen til 1486, this makes little sense to me, and is disappointing. I have not finished the book yet, but if this is true, then the speculation about what will happen with Drizzt in the future is null. I had hopes regarding several things, which I have listed (Zak, Guen, Mielikki, etc), that are now dashed.
And yet...it sounds like the Companions is not the last Drizzt book, and Ed seems pretty excited about the upcoming RAS novels. I would have no qualms about there being more Jarlaxle, because I like him, but...I don't know, I just feel like there is more to tell with Drizzt, especially now. I just don't see how the "first rumblings of the Sundering" can begin in 1463.
Also, the summary on Amazon might change (it's actually already changed since the Companions first appeared on the site), once it gets closer to August. I've notice that happen before with other books. All we can continue to to is speculate, of course, but...I'm such a sap, and this is a bit of a shock and disappointment to me. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2013 : 06:22:51
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| Topic name changed to prevent readers from any misunderstandings :) |
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Euranna
Learned Scribe
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2013 : 06:38:14
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@Corellonsdevote: RAS had said in a previous interview that "much of" The Companions happens during the same time as Neverwinter Tales.
That does not mean it all happens at the same time, or that that novel does not end at the onset of The Sundering.
I actually think that TLT has the beginning of The Sundering has already made an appearance.
I do not think we will be seeing Zak any time soon (I could be wrong).
My husband just read something about the new comic from RAS and Geno that hints that more might be coming. In fact, he mentions a novel that is in his head that has not even made it to paper yet that fits into the Legend of Drizzt. How? No clue.  But I am excited.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2013 : 08:54:33
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I realize an appearance of Zak is unlikely, but he did promise Drizzt they would meet again and if Mielikki gave Drizzt the CotH, she should give him Zak too. A girl can hope, right?
Well, even if the next novel doesn't stop at the onset of the Sundering, there would still be not point in backtracking, IMO. And...poor Guen. She was so faithful to him. I hope this is not the last we see of her. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Andrekan
Seeker
65 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2013 : 11:48:29
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This book contains many hints and clues as to the evolution of the Realms (again). I literaly just finished the book and it seem right to wipe the slate clean. Running with the wrong crowd no matter your intentions of hoping they will be better people has the inevitable end. Does it make the character a better person? More wise as to the foolishness bad people can bring you down.
Entreri seems most enlightened 'possibly' enspelled yet redeemed (also very observant and patient). Kimmurel does appear in the story and becomes more aware by his discoveries than the nervious Netherese (who I believe have found themselves in too deep with the drow heh heh). Which also can be seen in his careful choice of actions letting all the children play out their schemes as long as the business doesn't suffer. One nice thing in this story is the redemption of the characters (even if they slip). Their choices will impact their role in the larger scheme of the realms, no matter how big or small (or even if they are aware).
I enjoyed the uncertainty of it all; the mystery that I got when reading about the role of the Gods and their plans (It never openly states, which is nice). No one was really certain what might be happening but all of their decision and actions have an impact in a larger scheme of things. That's what I come away from this book with. Your choices and actions/reactions matter in a larger scope of the world around you, no matter the cost. I enjoyed it! It's the only way Neverwinter Series could end... On to this Prophetic Sundering! |
"Those two talk only of drink, riches, women, brawling, and magic, so ye've a one in five chance..." Quote from "Elminster in Hell" |
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Euranna
Learned Scribe
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2013 : 20:06:44
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Andrekan: Drizzt in fact talks about that himself.
I have to say that I was nervous to read the book, but really enjoyed it and I believe that it was a good ending to the series. I do think the Sundering is at hand.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2013 : 22:49:39
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| I haven't finished it yet, but despite the fact I know how it ends, I am enjoying it more than I have the others in the series |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 01:04:04
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[quote]Originally posted by Andrekan
This book contains many hints and clues as to the evolution of the Realms (again). I literaly just finished the book and it seem right to wipe the slate clean. Running with the wrong crowd no matter your intentions of hoping they will be better people has the inevitable end. Does it make the character a better person? More wise as to the foolishness bad people can bring you down.
Entreri seems most enlightened 'possibly' enspelled yet redeemed (also very observant and patient). Kimmurel does appear in the story and becomes more aware by his discoveries than the nervious Netherese (who I believe have found themselves in too deep with the drow heh heh). Which also can be seen in his careful choice of actions letting all the children play out their schemes as long as the business doesn't suffer. One nice thing in this story is the redemption of the characters (even if they slip). Their choices will impact their role in the larger scheme of the realms, no matter how big or small (or even if they are aware).
I enjoyed the uncertainty of it all; the mystery that I got when reading about the role of the Gods and their plans (It never openly states, which is nice). No one was really certain what might be happening but all of their decision and actions have an impact in a larger scheme of things. That's what I come away from this book with. Your choices and actions/reactions matter in a larger scope of the world around you, no matter the cost. I enjoyed it! It's the only way Neverwinter Series could end... On to this Prophetic Sundering!
I found this particularly bothersome. Kimmuriel's interactions with Jarlaxle were fascinating, as always, but his presence was too overwhelming. Is there anyone who can even make Kimmuriel sweat? He punked Archmage Knellict in ROTP, Cadderly was relieved to avoid a fight with him in SOTS, and now a very powerful warlock can't do anything to him. I suppose Telamont is only sending emissaries because he's afraid to meet with Kimmuriel 1 on 1. |
Edited by - Lilianviaten on 10 Mar 2013 01:06:11 |
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Yoss
Learned Scribe
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 04:47:01
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I can't help but read the exchange between Jarlaxle and Entreri regarding the betrayal as a metaphor for whether we'll ever get the details.
Kind of like this...
Jarlaxle/Readers: maybe sometime we'll get the chance to find out the whole story.
Entreri/RAS/editors/NDA/WOTC/business end of this: Doubtful.
And while I don't know, obviously, if that will ever be the case, it kinda bums me out. |
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Tarloc
Acolyte
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 04:49:23
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Drizzt will definately be back. Salvatore left it open. Hope he comes back as a chosen or something. His power and grace were awesome as always.
The companions book will probably be the adventures of Entreri and crew, until they finally find Drizzt alive at the end and adventure together again.
How ever it goes cant wait to read it. |
"hey, you just rolled two natural twenties!"
"is that a touchdown?" |
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Onyx1978
Acolyte
6 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 14:18:34
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One thing is still in my mind: Draygo Quick asks Drizzt while he is his prisoner: "Who worships you." This point is somehow intriguing. He wouldnīt be the first to ascend from mortality to somethinmg bigger. And a few books ago Jarlaxle mentioned that Drizzt is something special for a lot of drow, especially male. With Elistrae and Vaeraun gone, isnīt there a hole for those who seek another path?
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1265 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 15:05:43
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Finished it last night. Lot's of interesting stuff with Kimmuriel and Draygo and the hive mind about the future of the Realms. I wonder how much Jarlaxle knows? Great to see Gromph allying with Jarlaxle in limited ways!
The last bit set in Icewind Dale was a bit off to me, it felt rushed and disjointed from the rest of the book. The 18 year nap was weird, was that just to align the timelines with what happened in the Orc King prologue? I'm too lazy to look up the dates there. Also "The Year of the Awakaned Sleepers" was a bit too on the nose for my liking. I think Drizzt didn't die, he just got badly wounded from his fall and the cheap sucker blow Dahlia did, then he was rescued by divine intervention which we'll find out about later on.
Why didn't Drizzt call Guen earlier, it took them like a month to get to Ice Wind Dale, he said he was going to wait 10 days to call her from the Astral Plane? That was weird to me, given how much he missed her and his feelings you'd think he would have called her the second after 10 days had passed and if she was still looking weak dismissed her back to rest more. But instead she is never called? Or did I miss a section when he called her before his ascension?
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Count Roland
Acolyte
9 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 15:20:00
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I have some SPOILER comments:
I was really hoping Drizzit + chums and Jarlaxe and the two-flail dwarf teamed up to beat Ettru and the Drow with the sword and shield- then Artemis could have a nice poison magic sword to match his newly won dagger.
I think it is rather obvious to everyone that Drizzit is "ascending" ether as a demi-god champion or as a new happy ranger god. But no one gets his loot and epic gears as he is taken to the Mellki Realm of Rainbows and disappears after a brief good bye on his lookout point.
I am curious on the alignments of the characters... So is Artemis Entreti supposed to have moved from Neutral Evil to Neutral? Before he worked to kill for money. Now he is a reluctant hero? I think the crazy female monk is Chaotic Neutral with evil tendencies as she plans the death of others as well as willfully working for an Evil lich. I do not think her alignment really changed at all. I think Efron is Neutral and remained neutral... then again I do not know about the warlock class- they are evil by default right? No clue on this new D+D rule stuff. Then again are these Shadow guys evil by default like the lower plane evils? They had a lot of evil serving troops of the Evil A Devil.
I think Drizits death was fitting as he likewise would have died to save the life of another person he felt a strange love/guilt for who hated him. So, his death was not due to lack of skill but due to mercy and wishful thinking of a peaceful outcome.
Etruu is smart- why did he not scout or at least parley with the Dark Elf who was NOT Drizzit? Did he assume Drizzit was hidden nearby and they were friends of his?- did he not get intel on them from his thrall wizard?
Why is Drittz's is friends with people who do evil? After Drizzit fights by no choice with Arteimis he should have ditched him as a good guy. How can he suddenly waffle about good and evil after years and years of knowing bad and choosing good? Why would he ally with neutral at the least or more likely evil killers for hire? That dwarf priest and monk though maybe neutral were previously killers in a band of killers who fought amoral fights for gold. Also, that crazy monk girl was not good. He know that. She served the Evil Lich King of Thay! How can he at any time justify working with her? The whole idea of a good aligned ranger was turned into some sort of wishy washy try to see good in everyone get-along-happy-pony-guy. I think it all stated to go downhill when it was someohow decided that Orcs are neutral and show be traded with - how ridiculous- Orcs serve EVIL gods and are made of inate evil stuff. I do not know how R. A. got away with making them like humans where some are good and some are bad. And so the Dwarf Kingdom made a treaty and traded with them- AS well as them being friendly to ELVES - ridiculousness!
Sorry for the digression- but the point is obvious that the Dritz of "Sojurn" would NOT partner with some evil insane killer Elf Monk lady just for any long term amount after he realized she was ammoral and evil. R. A. seems to have grown existential and rejected all universal law and now that is reflected in his 'do what my heart dictates as good" character Drizzit.
Anyhow overall entertaining read. I suppose Drittz was getting boring to write so can not blame R.A. on the crack and electric bolt to the head. |
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Yoss
Learned Scribe
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 17:47:50
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Pretty much every author has strayed somewhat from identifying and matching their character to a strict alignment. Thinking in such terms defeats character development. They're already too defined, and that leaves you only with plot. While I like a good story as well as the next, a good story with interesting characters trumps a decent tale any day. Dd you read the other three books? Between the four of them, Drizzt spends pretty much 80% of the time contemplating how he can run around with these companions. That was kind of a major point.
Who said Dahlia was a monk? I'm assuming she's the "crazy female monk" you're referring to?
Also, I've only ever seen Entreri described as lawful evil. *shrug* |
Edited by - Yoss on 10 Mar 2013 17:51:35 |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 18:56:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Count Roland
Why is Drittz's is friends with people who do evil? After Drizzit fights by no choice with Arteimis he should have ditched him as a good guy. How can he suddenly waffle about good and evil after years and years of knowing bad and choosing good? Why would he ally with neutral at the least or more likely evil killers for hire? That dwarf priest and monk though maybe neutral were previously killers in a band of killers who fought amoral fights for gold. Also, that crazy monk girl was not good. He know that. She served the Evil Lich King of Thay! How can he at any time justify working with her? The whole idea of a good aligned ranger was turned into some sort of wishy washy try to see good in everyone get-along-happy-pony-guy.
Drizzt lost all of his friends, and he became mad at the world. At that point, he questioned the point of taking a hard moral stance on anything anymore. What was the point? He just lost his loved ones anyway, even with him trying to "do the right thing".
So he decided to give in to his instinctive feelings and desires and kneejerk reactions a little bit.
Enter Dahlia, the temptress. She consoled him after he lost Bruenor. And she was hot! Drizzt figured, "Why not?"
Drizzt convinced himself that morals didn't really matter. Or at least he tried to convince himself. That was far easier to do than to try to reconcile the notion that sometimes really bad things happen even to good people. So instead of trying to wrapping his head around that, he buried his head in her.
He tried convincing himself, as evidenced by his diary entries, that he had gotten over the loss of the Companions, and that his former pain did not matter to him anymore.
But he also admitted in those very same journals that he was lying to himself. This exposed all of this Dahlia play as an effort at distraction and sleight-of-hand (sleight-of-mind?). This was a clue to us readers that what we were seeing was not genuine, authentic Drizzt.
When Entreri learned that Dahlia and Drizzt planned to whack Sylora, he asked if he could go along for the ride. Entreri was still in the employ of Alegni, who wanted Sylora dead, too, so it would be both Entreri's duty and kinda fun to help out. Of course Drizzt had ample reason to say "No!". But as far as Drizzt knew, Entreri was the only person still living from Drizzt's past, and despite his having lied to himself, Drizzt desperately longed for some such connection.
Plus, as Drizzt was deep in thought over all of this, Entreri got the drop on him and held his dagger to Drizzt's throat. As Drizzt was stuck there, unable to move, Entreri pointed out that he could easily have killed Drizzt if that was what he had really wanted, but clearly he didn't, so this proved that Drizzt could trust him. Again, rather than contemplate it on any deeper level, Drizzt asked himself, "Why not?" And he went for it.
Along the way, Drizzt's moral couldn't help but surface, despite all the self-deception and suppression that he may attempt. So he has tried to change these unseemly sorts in his company, as a sort of project. Yes, moral matter. But he's been having far too much fun with Dahlia, and he's had such a great remembering the past through Entreri, to summarily dismiss either one.
That is a very unstable, dysfunctional couple of relationships! And as we have just been shown, it was a ticking time bomb, and a recipe for disaster. Drizzt was inwardly still grieving over the loss of his loved ones, but in constant denial. He lied to himself and pretended to be conflicted over his morality, but he really wanted to change those around him to better reflect that morality, because he was actually uncomfortable with them as they were. He wanted to change people who did not want to be changed. That was not likely to turn out well for anybody.
quote:
I think it all stated to go downhill when it was someohow decided that Orcs are neutral and show be traded with - how ridiculous- Orcs serve EVIL gods and are made of inate evil stuff. I do not know how R. A. got away with making them like humans where some are good and some are bad. And so the Dwarf Kingdom made a treaty and traded with them- AS well as them being friendly to ELVES - ridiculousness!
It's not that ridiculous. In the RW, just because the Communist regime of the Soviet Union was power-hungry and corrupt, you don't think that every single citizen of that union was evil do you? Just because the Japanese Empire was expansionist and brutal, you don't necessarily think that all Japanese people were like-minded, do you? And for those people today who think the United States is made up of nothing but a bunch of imperialistic, capatalistic, egotists, you wouldn't agree, would you?
The people are different from their leaders, and also from their official relgious doctrines and tenets of faith.
quote:
Sorry for the digression- but the point is obvious that the Dritz of "Sojurn" would NOT partner with some evil insane killer Elf Monk lady just for any long term amount after he realized she was ammoral and evil.
No, the Sojourn Drizzt would've just run away.
But where else is he to run away to, right now?
Hopefully, my comments above have reminded you of why Drizzt changed and took on a different tack in the recent books. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 19:18:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Onyx1978
One thing is still in my mind: Draygo Quick asks Drizzt while he is his prisoner: "Who worships you." This point is somehow intriguing. He wouldnīt be the first to ascend from mortality to somethinmg bigger. And a few books ago Jarlaxle mentioned that Drizzt is something special for a lot of drow, especially male. With Elistrae and Vaeraun gone, isnīt there a hole for those who seek another path?
That hole isn't likely to be filled AFAIK, neither by Eilistraee and Vhaeraun nor by anyone else. The only kind drow WotC seem to like is 'ebil spider fetishists' (see Brian James' post on this topic http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10072&whichpage=2). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 10 Mar 2013 19:18:55 |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1265 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 19:18:40
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quote:
It's not that ridiculous. In the RW, just because the Communist regime of the Soviet Union was power-hungry and corrupt, you don't think that every single citizen of that union was evil do you? Just because the Japanese Empire was expansionist and brutal, you don't necessarily think that all Japanese people were like-minded, do you? And for those people today who think the United States is made up of nothing but a bunch of imperialistic, capatalistic, egotists, you wouldn't agree, would you?
Hmm if I may interject my opinion here: The real world analogy would be if we applied one "evil" run kingdom in the Realms (Thay? Zhentil Keep?) to the Soviets or Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan; of course some citizens inside are not bad, hate the leaders, and with different rulers the entire land may become allies with its former enemies.
When it comes to orcs, in D&D terms, they are inherently evil and chaotic. There is no RW equivalent to apply that to. Between Drizzt/Jarlaxle and "The Dark Mirror" short story, Bob has tried to show that there are individuals in inherently evil D&D races that buck the trend, but they are ridiculously rare. By making an entire kingdom of orcs civilized, it really is kind of an afront to how orcs have been developed in D&D ruleset over the years. And to that point, I don't think I agree either.
I'm biased though, I hated the Thousand Orcs books and The Orc King; it really turned me off for a bunch of reasons. Not the least of which is this turning orcs into a peaceful trading civilization with dwarves.
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Onyx1978
Acolyte
6 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 21:45:46
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| Hmm, the realms isnīt the only world who turned orcs into (more or less) peaceful traders, I had this "ok if you think so" effect also in the world and system Iīm playing at the moment (DSA). Itīs a strange thing that the children and grandchildren of peasants and townsfolk who were raided, murdered and much more only 30 years ago should trade with their former enemies- but Iīm glad that there are still enough arc bandits to be killed..... Seems to be a common thought, though. |
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Captain black
Acolyte
13 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2013 : 23:36:27
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First let me say I am a fan of most Drizzt books, I was brought into forgotten realms with his story. So I am always excited when a new book comes out, but a can not say I always enjoy the books. That said I was not much a fan of this book. There was so much potential, but is fell short at nearly every turn.
My biggest problem has to do with the Epilog of Charon's Claw (it may actually be 2 problems). There were 2 big reveals in it: Pwent, and Etrru. I was excited to see that they were back, but the way they were included in this book was pointless. Why have Pwent come back just to decide to kill himself? Why have Etrru back just to get killed without ever confronting Drizzt?
My other issue with this book is the lack of any "Epic" battles. Throughout the book there were 3 confrontations I wanted to see, and none happened. They went to save Gwen from Drago. But instead got caught and had to be saved without anyone ever fighting him. Tiago is out to get Drizzt, but Drizzt runs away and sleeps for 18 years. Etrru also wants to kill Drizzt, but when he does make his move Drizzt is sleeping and he fights Tiago instead.
The ending also pissed me off, but I am hoping that that is resolved in the next book. That is without the return of "the companions", if that happens I am done. |
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Entromancer
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2013 : 00:08:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain black
First let me say I am a fan of most Drizzt books, I was brought into forgotten realms with his story. So I am always excited when a new book comes out, but a can not say I always enjoy the books. That said I was not much a fan of this book. There was so much potential, but is fell short at nearly every turn.
My biggest problem has to do with the Epilog of Charon's Claw (it may actually be 2 problems). There were 2 big reveals in it: Pwent, and Etrru. I was excited to see that they were back, but the way they were included in this book was pointless. Why have Pwent come back just to decide to kill himself? Why have Etrru back just to get killed without ever confronting Drizzt?
My other issue with this book is the lack of any "Epic" battles. Throughout the book there were 3 confrontations I wanted to see, and none happened. They went to save Gwen from Drago. But instead got caught and had to be saved without anyone ever fighting him. Tiago is out to get Drizzt, but Drizzt runs away and sleeps for 18 years. Etrru also wants to kill Drizzt, but when he does make his move Drizzt is sleeping and he fights Tiago instead.
The ending also pissed me off, but I am hoping that that is resolved in the next book. That is without the return of "the companions", if that happens I am done.
Errtu vowed revenge against Drizzt in TCS; he returned once in PTD. Another rematch would've been bland and repetitive. Salvatore's decision to have Errtu bested by someone else kept the Errtu thread intriguing.
As for the orcs, I like them better now then when they were stereotypically evil. That sort of allignment provided a hindrance to further development of the Realms and her inhabitants. No mortal is simply "made of evil" and I don't see why it has to be so for the orcs. |
"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul
"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul |
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The Last Threshold (Spoilers BeWare)
