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 Elven Mantles or "Thaelkiira"
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
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Posted - 25 Feb 2013 :  12:05:54  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I've been reading through the posts here about these, including George's article. Has anyone taken the time to detail the spells of creating, altering, mastering, elven mantle stones? (Like the spell that just sold in Skullport for 1 million gp? :P, or any other spells involving these gems?)

I like the name Thaelkiira, by the way.

Also, has anyone put thought into how an elven mantle and a Netherese would interact if created by the same person. (I interpret the description in Secrets of the Magister to mean when two mantles on two different people collide).

The Masked Mage
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Posted - 25 Feb 2013 :  12:17:39  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Below is the description of the spell/process used in creating Tel'Kiira from one of Phasai's books (which I like as well).

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Fhaor’tel’Kiir
7th Level
School: Alteration
Range: 1’
Components:vsm
Duration: permanent
Casting Time: 1
Area of Effect: 1 gem
Saving Throw: Special

This seemingly simple spell is the final step in a long and complex process to enchant a Tel’kiira Lore Gem. Processes vary according to the city, realm and individual mage. But this spell saw common use through much of Illefarn’s long history and was taught as a standard “Lore Keepers” spell to most librarians and family historians. Each gem is set for a particular purpose.

The caster must first find a flawless gem of at least 2 carats in size and weight. Any carbon based gem will do, rubies, sapphires, emeralds, diamonds, kings tears and beljurels are popular for their ruggedness and ability to hold an enchantment indefinitely.

The caster then spends time bathing the gem in moon and sun light for 30 days and nights, offering prayers to Labelas (or what ever deity of knowledge they worship). Unicorn hair or Couatal feathers, along with powdered dragon horn, and 30 drops of the casters blood are mixed into a paste which is then smeared over the gem, the casters forehead and the forehead of the gems initial recipient.

The spell itself is then cast upon the night of a full or new moon when both the caster and the gems recipient are bathed in full moon or star light. At the completion of the casting the gems recipient places the gem upon their forehead, at once they must make a saving throw verses spells (wisdom bonus applies). Failures sees the recipient feebleminded (can be cured through magical means) and the gem shattered in a cloud of sparkling dust. Success sees the gems bonded to the wielder and able to be used immediately to store memories and other information.

Further enchantments can be later placed upon the gem to disguise its true purpose, but each time an additional power is laid into it the caster must save verses wands, and the gem make an item saving throw against magical fire to avoid being shattered in the enchantment process.

There are countless variations of this spell, but the process for producing Sel’kiira gems is a high magic ritual that follows similar lines, but the risks, costs and rewards increase accordingly.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW - anyone able to translate "Fhaor"?

Edited by - The Masked Mage on 25 Feb 2013 12:18:39
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George Krashos
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Australia
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Posted - 25 Feb 2013 :  13:32:28  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Glad you liked "thaelkiira" - so did Ed.

"Fhaor" can be translated as "transformation". It's first noted on p.135 of the "Cormanthyr" accessory and I used it in my GHotR piece (p.14) in the context of a 'faerfhaor' or 'spellchange' to describe the transformation of the dark elves into drow.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
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Posted - 25 Feb 2013 :  13:53:24  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mythals are (theoretically) part of an escalating field of magical research, that starts on the personal level (mantles) and graduates on up through building-specific enclosures (drow spell-webs for example) and on up to full blown Mythals and Mythalars (and perhaps even beyond... is The weave itself the ultimate extension of this sort of creation?)

IIRC, either I or someone else (it was awhile ago) asked Ed about 'colliding' Mythals. I recall it coming up, since Netherese Mythalars are very similar to Arcane Mythals, it was possible that a Netherese Enclave 'violated' a Mythal-field of another city (either Netherese or elven). I don't recall if we got an answer, or what that answer might of been, but I do remember some sort of discussion that included those 'lesser', personal mythals (which we call mantles).

I seem to recall two distinct possibilities; A) The stronger field overrides the lesser one, and where they conflict the stronger one ''shuts off' the conflicting abilities of the lesser field-effect, or B) That the fields react violently with one another, in much the same way that two interdimensional spaces cannot overlap (utterly annihilating whichever was weaker, and if they are evenly empowered, then they destroy each other).

'B' above could be why you don't hear about too many conflicts between Enclaves - the losing side could 'ram' the other, possibly cancelling both fields and killing everyone in the process.

I also think of smaller, continuous field-effects like 'apps' running on a more powerful interface, but I've made The weave = a GUI (ie, Windows) comparison plenty of times before. When two 'apps' conflict, usually one or the other crashes, but sometimes the whole things crashes and you get the 'Cerulean screen of death'.

So in other words, each is unique, and how they behave - whether in the presence of other magical fields or not - is different in every circumstance. I'm not even sure if this most was on-topic... what was the question?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 25 Feb 2013 13:55:24
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1643 Posts

Posted - 25 Feb 2013 :  14:40:06  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OH MY GOD...how did I ever NOT know about this guy? I just downloaded all Phasai's stuff and I'm in love (please don't tell me wife!)

Sadly, information on mantles is somewhat sketchy. I've been wanting to see an 'official' write up of mantles other the the base spell listed in SotM for years now as well as more detailed info on the elven varieties. I'm especially interested in spell-webs in all their forms.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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sleyvas
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USA
8007 Posts

Posted - 25 Feb 2013 :  15:15:08  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
in 3rd edition, the spell mantle is expanded upon in lost empires of faerun to make it a new feat based off of create contingent spell. I created a prestige class a few months back that worked to expand upon this with relatively simple rules. If a mage were really going to focus on this type of magic, it might be for them. Link below.

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17010

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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The Masked Mage
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USA
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Posted - 25 Feb 2013 :  21:46:55  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Glad you liked "thaelkiira" - so did Ed.

"Fhaor" can be translated as "transformation". It's first noted on p.135 of the "Cormanthyr" accessory and I used it in my GHotR piece (p.14) in the context of a 'faerfhaor' or 'spellchange' to describe the transformation of the dark elves into drow.

-- George Krashos




Thanks George. Do you have a list of words like that you refer to?

quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

Sadly, information on mantles is somewhat sketchy. I've been wanting to see an 'official' write up of mantles other the the base spell listed in SotM for years now as well as more detailed info on the elven varieties. I'm especially interested in spell-webs in all their forms.



Arcanamach, do you have the old dragon Annual magazine - I think it was 97 or 98. Published after Elminster in Myth Drannor it has an article called 'Magic of Myth Drannor' by Ed with descriptions of some spells from that book as well as general introduction to Elven Mantle Gems and Spell-Webs.

This thread (which also seems to be pulling from an older thread) is what I was referring to. The section on elven mantles seems to be strongly based on the Dragon article description.

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?whichpage=1&TOPIC_ID=11811#243227

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I seem to recall two distinct possibilities; A) The stronger field overrides the lesser one, and where they conflict the stronger one ''shuts off' the conflicting abilities of the lesser field-effect, or B) That the fields react violently with one another, in much the same way that two interdimensional spaces cannot overlap (utterly annihilating whichever was weaker, and if they are evenly empowered, then they destroy each other).

So in other words, each is unique, and how they behave - whether in the presence of other magical fields or not - is different in every circumstance. I'm not even sure if this most was on-topic... what was the question?



The reason I asked about the interaction is I was thinking along these lines: Presumably each of the Netherese survivors has their own version of the Mantle spell. I'd also assume at least one, possibly most of them came into conflict with or chose to ally with elves, whether from Earlann or Cormanthyr after the Fall. In either case it would not seem unreasonable that they would come into contact with Mantle Gems (or Tel & Selu kiira for that matter). For allies, perhaps the elves agree to teach about them (say the Netherese joins one of the schools in Myth Drannor); for enemies, perhaps they were discovered on the corpse of an elf recently slain in spell battle. In either case, I would expect the Netherese Archmage to spend as much time as needed to master the gem mantle (wouldn't you?)

Spells I'm looking to generate on this topic are:

Create thaelkiira - an elven spell or group of spells (since by definition they must be of 1st level).
Modify thaelkiira - the spell used to add powers to the mantle at new levels, though perhaps this could simply be a function of the thaelkiira magic.
Augment thaelkiira - the 8th/9th level spells Ed mentions that allow thaelkiira to have multiple spells of each level.
Master kiira - an elven spell used to usurp control of another's mantle or Tel'Kiira
Master kiira - a non-elven spell developed developed by an Archmage based on the elven spell that allows access to elven tel'kiira and thaelkiira
Master selu'kiira - a non-elven spell developed by the same Archmage that allows N'tel'quess to access a selu'kirra. This would need to be a 10th level spell, I'd say. This would not enable the use of high magic, just the ability to learn about its secrets from a kiira.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

in 3rd edition, the spell mantle is expanded upon in lost empires of faerun to make it a new feat based off of create contingent spell. I created a prestige class a few months back that worked to expand upon this with relatively simple rules. If a mage were really going to focus on this type of magic, it might be for them. Link below.

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17010



I like that sleyvas, except all the 3rd edition speak :P - I've recently decided that incorporating things like feats and metamagic and "quick/standard actions" into my stuff is just too much work :)

Edited by - The Masked Mage on 25 Feb 2013 22:23:23
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1643 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2013 :  02:43:04  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Arcanamach, do you have the old dragon Annual magazine - I think it was 97 or 98. Published after Elminster in Myth Drannor it has an article called 'Magic of Myth Drannor' by Ed with descriptions of some spells from that book as well as general introduction to Elven Mantle Gems and Spell-Webs.


Yes I have a copy of that magazine. What I was referring to were more concrete examples of the various types of mantles Ed (and others) sometimes speak of. The base (6th level) Mantle spell described in SotM is an incredible piece of Ed's creativity...and I simply drool at the prospect of higher level versions of that spell. In other words...I seriously wish we had more versions to draw from because I just can't imagine how powerful a 9th or 10th level mantle would be.

And thanks for the link sir, I'm eagerly perusing it now.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1800 Posts

Posted - 05 Mar 2013 :  07:59:30  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

but I do remember some sort of discussion that included those 'lesser', personal mythals (which we call mantles).
I seem to recall two distinct possibilities; A) The stronger field overrides the lesser one, and where they conflict the stronger one ''shuts off' the conflicting abilities of the lesser field-effect, or B) That the fields react violently with one another, in much the same way that two interdimensional spaces cannot overlap (utterly annihilating whichever was weaker, and if they are evenly empowered, then they destroy each other).
Neither happens between incompatibly different categories, obviously. If mythals interacted with mantles like this, rising one surreptitiously (as it was done in Myth Drannor) could lead to great FUN... in Dwarf Fortress sense.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I also think of smaller, continuous field-effects like 'apps' running on a more powerful interface, but I've made The weave = a GUI (ie, Windows) comparison plenty of times before. When two 'apps' conflict, usually one or the other crashes, but sometimes the whole things crashes and you get the 'Cerulean screen of death'.
I don't think there's a lot of similarities. It's not a badly glued pile of pieces salvaged from several unrelated earlier system, it's not anywhere close to being THAT worm-ridden... oh, and uptime usually stretches at least for a few centuries even when it's in a bad shape.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

in 3rd edition, the spell mantle is expanded upon in lost empires of faerun to make it a new feat based off of create contingent spell. I created a prestige class a few months back that worked to expand upon this with relatively simple rules.
Matter of taste, for me even the feat looks clumsy, especially with such a dependence - a polished tradition of very specifically anchored and build up triggered spells requires... ability to do the same in a generic case?
Also, it's an elven tradition, so let's consider not infinitely crunching PCs, but crowd of low-level mages, like that Alaglossa's handmaiden with a basic utility/self-defence mantle, she was what - 4 level? How would you model them - a feat with prerequisite of Craft Contingent Spell (itself with prerequisite of CL11) or a whole PrC?
Something like point-by-point skill or "knowledge (spellfields)" affecting also research of things like wardmists would make much more sense.

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

I like that sleyvas, except all the 3rd edition speak :P - I've recently decided that incorporating things like feats and metamagic and "quick/standard actions" into my stuff is just too much work :)
Especially seeing as PO did it better.

Metamagic feats IMO can be healed of clumsiness if converted into skills - e.g. one pick per target spell level (meaning, it's easier to tweak a simple spell than complex one).
Hmm, maybe it's best to have both spells and mods, but require N+(level) picks in [Metamagic] skill for research of any "[Metamagic] N" spell? After all, building something that uniformly modifies arbitrary spells on the fly may require much the same sort of knowledge, but be harder than modifying a specific spell once.
Then again, why not apply the same approach to all spells with "I, II, III..." in names? Having a wizard who can do Summon Monster I and V but not Summon Monster III is kind of silly.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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