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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3149 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2013 :  13:09:14  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Poll Question:
In order to be more positive nowadays, I bring you the following question. We all have talked about what we don't like about RSEs, but what RSE DID you think was good/fun/etc.?

Choices:

Abolethic Sovereignty
Abyssal Plague
Death of King Azoun IV
Death of Mask
The Rage of Dragons
Reclamation of Myth Drannor
The Spellplague
Time of Troubles
The Tuigan Horde
Other (please descibe below)

(Anonymous Vote)

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2013 :  15:38:31  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Before I vote, a question... can we instead choose our 'least hated' RSE?

I think the entire Tuigan Horde affair could have been handled better (both by the designer/authors and the in-game NPCs). I didn't hate it, but I think there was plenty of room for improvement.

And yes, that is the best thing I can say about any of the above (and I am oblivious to a couple of them, since they appeared in series I did not read).

Strangely, the Spellplague might come in at #2, only because a lot of what I said about the Tuigan Horde could also be applied to the 3e/4e transition.

EDIT: LOL - I just re-read your post and realized I totally blew your 'lets be positive' approach. Sorry.

At least I didn't bash the Spellplague - I find it a very useful tool for DMs to hand-tweak their Realms.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 20 Feb 2013 15:40:25
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2013 :  16:49:28  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wouldn't consider anything other than the Time of Troubles or the Spellplague to be true RSEs.

Of the two, I like the Spellplague more because it gave us a chance to see the Realms grow and change, and so we've gotten a lot more history and lore about places like Waterdeep and Cormyr. We've gotten a lot of information detailing the Realms in the Year of the Ageless one, as well as the time in between (to a lesser degree), that the Realms seems more alive to me then ever

One thing I liked about the ToT were the post-ToT novels in the Shadow of the Avatar Trilogy. Those were good reads (I still have my original novel copies) and I liked the Rangers Three. I hope we get to learn more about them someday.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1712 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2013 :  17:08:29  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sigh, Im with Jeremy in that the ToT and the SP are the only true RSE listed IMO. Of those two I actually liked the ToT but disliked how it 'ended' (I generally have a problem with mortals becoming greater deities overnight). Unlike Jeremy, however, I absolutely hated the SP and all its retconned changes to the Realms. Sorry I couldn't be more positive sir.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe

909 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2013 :  17:58:40  Show Profile Send Aldrick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Like Markus I voted for 'least hated' RSE. My vote was for the Reclamation of Myth Drannor. I disagree with Jeremy and Arcanamach, in that I consider all the things on the list RSE's.

I liked the *CONCEPT* of Elves returning to reclaim Myth Drannor. I just disliked everything about how it was handled and executed, mainly because I can't wrap my mind around the humans in the region openly accepting a militarily powerful group just showing up and establishing a nation right there in their midst.

Throw on top of this that Sembia has a historical dislike of Elves...

...just ugh. In my Realms, it happened but there is severe tension between the Elves, the Dales, and Cormyr (which has conquered Sembia). I drew VERY loosely from the Israeli and Palestinian conflict in the real world, and did my best to make things not appear so cut and dry. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' side - both sides have legitimate complaints against the other, and there are various groups who work diligently to provoke further conflict.

The Eldreth Veluuthra are major players in the region, especially within Myth Drannor. Suffice it to say, the region is very unstable - Cormyr is the counter balance that keeps Myth Drannor in check - but it's Imperialistic ambitions also endanger the freedom of the Dales. The Dales themselves are forced to navigate very unfavorable political waters, constantly striving to keep both their independence and their freedom.

That's just the way I like it. Ugly, messy, and complicated. Such a sad missed opportunity in the canon Realms, IMO.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34020 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2013 :  18:48:46  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Of the listed choices...

Abolethic Sovereignty -- I didn't know this was a RSE. I don't like the addition of the Sovereignty into the Realms, so I'm voting against it

Abyssal Plague -- I know nothing about this one. I'm inclined to vote against it, because of my general dislike of almost everything post-4E

Death of King Azoun IV -- I'd not call this an RSE, but it was fairly well handled -- except for the part where Vangey was in that odd dimension. I didn't care for that part at all.

Death of Mask -- See the Abyssal Plague

The Rage of Dragons -- My only complaint on this one is that it did not, to me, feel like it was affecting all of the Realms. It felt too localized.

Reclamation of Myth Drannor -- This one I enjoyed, save for the way the epilogue wrapped it up

The Spellplague -- Oh, let me count the ways in which I do not like this one!

Time of Troubles -- I came aboard the Realms while this was happening, so I've not had any issues with it.

The Tuigan Horde -- I enjoyed this one.

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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe

789 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2013 :  19:13:09  Show Profile Send silverwolfer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmmm

Abyssal Plague, was that a FR thing or just a WOTC writing books together from various crystal spheres?

Ab Sov - I kind of loved, but felt it did not do much, but I did enjoy watching the explanation of the new warlock system, and the dream mage girl.

Dead King- Havent seen

Death Of mask - Pissed me off,as it made me start to love mask, as I saw him less as the typical LE gods of pickpockets and more of a LN deity that viewed theift as a matter of minor issues of morality rather then highly evil act. I am looking forward to him being added back in 5E, but the writer of that seris seems to have left WOTC payroll.

Rage of Dragons -- No biggie, no love or hate, just unmemorable , but it gave me brimstone the vamp dragon and the only part I cherish is that creature .

Myth Drannor - give me books please to read up on it

Spellplauge -- did not enjoy the time jump, but enjoying the new tools writers have now, for outside the box magic systems.

Time of troubles -- What I love about FR is that the gods are stomping around the realms all day long, instead of being loftey and only prayed to.

Tuigan horde - The empires books ...are a balance between decent and utterly sucking.





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Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2013 :  19:42:29  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am bouncing between Tugian Horde and Reclamation of Myth Drannor. Eventually I will vote for one of those two.

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He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

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daarkknight
Seeker

USA
66 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2013 :  22:43:12  Show Profile Send daarkknight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted for the Reclamation of Myth Drannor. As much as I enjoyed being a player and entering Myth Drannor (and all its inherent dangers) or being a DM and subjecting my players to the same, I was also happy to see it restored to "elvendom."

The one I liked the least was the Spellplague, because it did away with much of what I thought was the Realms. In hindsight, it game me the impetus to come up with my own homebrew world (and the four campaigns in that world), as well as my current Realms campaign, where the players are trying to stop Shar and Cyric, though they don't necessarily know what they're doing yet...

"That's it!"
Quote attributed to Talor Stormhammer, paladin of Helm, when fighting a frost giant.
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4009 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2013 :  22:48:45  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Of the choices above, I'm going with the Spellplague. Not only is it the one that suppoerts my favorite edition of the game, 90% of the changes I agree with (aside from the time jump).

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31701 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2013 :  00:38:34  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Abolethic Sovereignty -- I thoroughly enjoyed this saga, but I attribute that more to my love of the aboleths and Bruce Cordell's work on the Realms.

Abyssal Plague -- I've yet to read the books featuring the Abyssal Plague Saga, so I can neither say "yay" or "nay" regarding my interest in it.

Death of King Azoun IV -- Another favourite, but I'm not so sure it qualifies as an RSE. Rather, I'd see it more as a CSE [Cormyr Shaking Event].

Death of Mask -- Again, not a saga I'm familiar with at the moment, so my answer for the Abyssal Plague applies here as well.

The Rage of Dragons -- A particular favourite, due in no small part to Byers' masterful way with Realmslore.

Reclamation of Myth Drannor -- I'm all over the place with this one. There are parts I really liked, some that left me scratching my head, and others that I felt needed more elaboration.

The Spellplague -- Similar to my thinking on the "Reclamation," but, perhaps, with a little more interest in the parts I really liked.

Time of Troubles -- For most people, this set the standard for the "typical" RSE in the Realms. It's for that reason that I see it in a special way.

The Tuigan Horde -- Probably my second favourite RSE in the Realmslore. This entire saga was both expertly handled, and I loved the way for almost a decade afterward, the Realms was still feeling the effects of the Horde. Good stuff!

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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3546 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2013 :  01:12:18  Show Profile Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
voted other

the only RSE i like was the decision to run as much of new realms design as possible by Ed ...that is the only thing that gives me hope.

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore

Netherlands
1266 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2013 :  02:20:04  Show Profile Send Bladewind a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like the Time of Troubles because of several reasons. I first made my steps in the Realms in this era of publication. I also like the philosophical implications it had on Faerun, as the gods walked the surface and therefore are unrefutable in their presence in the Realms. It's storyline was also responcable for the greatest CRPG of its time, the Baldurs Gate series, which played with the Time of Troubles premise in a wonderful plotline.

The Tuigan Horde & Death of Azoun I don't know enough about, but it definately happened in my homebrew FR campaigns. The Rage of Dragons and Lolth's Silence never happened, and probably never will.

I have a morbid interest in the Spellplague. It brought about a couple of very interesting large scale ideas, but in doing so often ripped apart the delicately balanced local realmslore that came before. I think with proper attention to detail the rich tapestry can be rewoven over the Realms' meriad interesting locations. My FR campaigns haven't passed the 100 year timegap, and probably dont need to for awhile.

Abolythic Soverignity, the Twilight War and the Reclamation of Myth Drannor are other ones I approved of and have incorporated into my 1374 DR+ campaigns, and the Abyssal Plague might have some planar metaplot and lore that I can salvage for my future campaigns.

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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1141 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2013 :  06:13:59  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Voted "other". I've yet to find a RSE I liked, sadly. I had major issues with all of them. The Horde invasion probably the best of the bunch.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7237 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2013 :  07:37:53  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No vote, and my "RSE" preference would be the return of Shade, the Shadowstorm, Shadow Weave, Shadowcetera. A new (evil!) player crowding the map and a measured dose of deific influence without resorting to sloppy (and repetitive) exploding of gods and continents. Thay and the Zulkirs and Old Szass Tammy interest me as well, but their grand aspirations are always thwarted and have little lasting effect on the Realms beyond troubling a handful of heroes within their local borders.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 21 Feb 2013 08:06:42
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2013 :  11:09:22  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Death of Mask, as it was set during my favorite trilogy and was the most poignant event of all.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2013 :  12:25:31  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Other: The Return of Shade. Must I count the ways?

The Twilight War, I also approve of. Though it's more localized than Realms-spanning.

Rage of Dragons is fine, too, except that when I think of it, I remember a handful of characters in the novels that I didn't particularly like.

The Abolethic Sovereignty, I have mixed feelings with. I found the return of ancient aboleths to be interesting, with a promise of great adventures for those dedicated to stop them. But the books didn't exactly "wow" me.

Every beginning has an end.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2013 :  12:28:10  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

The Death of Mask, as it was set during my favorite trilogy and was the most poignant event of all.
I don't think of it as death. It's more like a necessary "reboot" for a future "upgrade."

Every beginning has an end.
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2013 :  12:59:18  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

The Death of Mask, as it was set during my favorite trilogy and was the most poignant event of all.
I don't think of it as death. It's more like a necessary "reboot" for a future "upgrade."


Well of course , Mask always has a plan.
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arry
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
317 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2013 :  15:07:42  Show Profile Send arry a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted 'other' to mean in my case, none. I don't like the concept.
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Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2130 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2013 :  16:40:11  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I went with the Invasion of the Tugian Horde since I think that it caused the least amount of continuity issues.
I did really enjoy the Reclamation of Myth Drannor, but there were a few continuity issues with it. In my opinion, if there is going to be an RSE, it should resolve continuity issues, not cause them.

Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)

One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane

* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives

My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)

Edited by - Hawkins on 21 Feb 2013 16:41:09
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2536 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2013 :  23:32:52  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Reclamation of Myth Drannor. Something good came out of it.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore

1221 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2013 :  00:13:47  Show Profile  Visit Chosen of Asmodeus's Homepage Send Chosen of Asmodeus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think even listing the Abyssal Plague here is kind of realms-centric; it wasn't focused on the realms, didn't have a big impact on the realms, just kind of touched on the realms and moved on. Might be considered a Nerath-shattering event, but not a realms-shattering event.

Honestly I think we need to drop the term completely. They're crisis crossovers, nothing more, nothing less. They're not unique to the realms, nor are they any more common in the realms than in any other given setting.

Ok, with that little rant over, I'm going to vote for the Spellplague. Minority opinion, but I thought the good that came of it outweighed the bad, in quality if not quantity.

And while everyone has the right to their opinion, I think there's more than a little nostalgia coloring the ToT for it to be in the lead.

"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4027 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2013 :  02:03:19  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I chose other:

Fall of Netheril

It opened up a great deal of dungeon territory and created a cool feature of the Forgotten Realms (that being a giant honking desert).

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34020 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2013 :  04:21:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus

And while everyone has the right to their opinion, I think there's more than a little nostalgia coloring the ToT for it to be in the lead.



I'm disinclined to agree. The Horde Invasion wasn't too long after the ToT, and it's not getting any love. If nostalgia was the only factor, the second oldest RSE listed should be a lot higher.

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Aldrick
Senior Scribe

909 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2013 :  12:16:02  Show Profile Send Aldrick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus

And while everyone has the right to their opinion, I think there's more than a little nostalgia coloring the ToT for it to be in the lead.



I was a bit shocked as well, and I'm going to chock it up to nostalgia. After you see something like the Spellplague and the time jump that accompanied it, it tends to make horrific events like the ToT more acceptable by comparison. In fact, I think the Spellplague and the time jump have impacted people to such a degree that it's redefined RSE - making some of the smaller RSE (by comparison) seem insignificant.

Just using the second most popular RSE on the list as an example, the Reclamation of Myth Drannor might seem like a small regional event. But that's only if you lack an understanding of how interconnected the Realms is and gloss over the short and long term implications. Just the simple act of it happening marks the end to an entire era for the Elves of Toril, which have been in retreat for centuries. It might even seem like a big deal, until you consider the geopolitical and economic impact it'll have on the entire region. Unfortunately, that seems to have been largely danced over.

I mean just try to envision how this would play out in the real world. Let's say that something magical suddenly happens. Over the course of a few months Great Britain and it's citizens are transported to a newly created magical area in the very heartland of the United States. There is no destruction or damage caused. The land simply parts out in the wilderness, roads are magically lengthened as necessary, and a large inner sea is created where Great Britain is now magically located.

Okay, we like the British. They are our allies - perhaps one of our closest allies. We have a very good relationship with them. Everyone even speaks the same language. Yet, I dare say if the British showed up in the middle of the United States, things would become rather interesting rather quickly, and not in a good way. Virtually immediately, disputes would break out. Who controls the air space? Is it against international law for the United States to fly spy drones over London?

Now, let's imagine that the United States couldn't simply curb stomp Great Britain militarily speaking. Let's assume that they were an equal if not greater military force. So, now you have an equal if not greater military force right there in the middle of the heartland. Oh, and by the way... there are some people in Great Britain who are having second thoughts about the Revolutionary War. After all, the United States once used to be their colony; just because it rebelled does that mean it's 'legally' independent, or does that just make everyone who doesn't submit to British rule traitors and therefore criminals?

I'm not saying that a war would break out. I'm just saying things would be.... problematic for everyone involved.

With the Elves of Myth Drannor, you have a powerful military force establishing itself as your next door neighbor. They're just showing up and claiming those lands. They believe those lands belong to them, despite having not controlled them for centuries. There really is no long standing prior relationship, no real shared culture, no reason to really trust one another. On top of it all, you've got groups on both sides who'd LOVE to see an all out war. On the Elven side you've got the Eldreth Veluuthra, and on the human side you've got the Sembian's who have a long standing dislike for Elves due to bad past relationships with the Myth Drannor of old.

So, you'd have the natural tensions that would arise - even if everyone was the greatest of friends - and you've got people who would exploit those tensions to the hilt. Now, I'm not saying there would be a war, but it would be... problematic for everyone involved.

What seems to have happened, of course, was that someone happened to look at the alignments. "Oh, well these Elves are mostly of good alignment, and everyone likes people of good alignment right? LOL! Of course they do! They'll be total BFF's! They'll establish trade, and all of their neighbors will welcome a military powerful group of good aligned elves with open arms! I mean, there might be some ugly evil aligned orcs in those woods or something, right? (You can tell they're evil because they're ugly, and not pretty like the Elves. Pretty people aren't evil, don't have self-interest, and would totally never stab you in the back... or the face. It's a known fact.)"



Okay, that was a bit off track. The good news, I guess, is that everyone who loved the ToT will hopefully love the Sundering since as far as I know they're billing it as ToT v2. I won't bother to list all the objectionable things that took place during the ToT that always seem to be widely criticized. I guess there are just more Cyric fans than I thought.
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