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Khonger
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 16:43:09
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I posted this in the "Questions for Ed Greenwood" thread, but I also wanted to post my questions here in hopes of getting the rest of the community involved.
I am embarking on a new adventure this weekend, gaming with my children. I am very excited, and so are the youngsters. I've worked up a system that, I hope, has the right amount of complexity to engage that part of their brains, and I have a story germ tailored toward their interests.
I plan on setting the game in the Realms in the Kingdom of Cormyr. Inspired by the opening chapters of Swords of Eveningstar, they will begin as young folk, who have long dreamed of adventure and hope to win a Royal Charter.
I'm hoping to glean some wisdom, and I have a few questions:
1. Have you ever ran a game for school-aged children (7-10) set in the Realms?
2. If so, what were your experiences in these games?
3. What sorts of stories have you/would you try to tell?
Any advice or input this wonderful community can offer is greatly appreciated.
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Khong! |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 17:08:02
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I canīt mark the points 1 and 2 as i never did it but i could give you some ideas on what stories you could tell.
You could for example have them deal with bandits who steal farm animals of a small farmstead somewhere in the Kingdom. Not sure how "bloody" you want to make the realms for your kids, i would suggest they are sticking to simple investigation of hints and maybe sneaking up on the bandits lair and then run to the authorities to get their aid to arrest them.
If you want them to have some "brawling" experience, have them partake in a festivity with strong man contests and wrestling for the enjoyment of the common folk where suddenly a thief hits a noblewoman and you have them chase the culprit across the village until you corner him/her and with diplomacy convince the return of the missing noblewomans belongings.
Granted these are not major things and wouldnīt get you a royal charter mostlikely but they could be used as getting them started and have them gain "local fame" for helping people. From there on you can expand the story with other aspects as perhaps guarding a caravan which gets raided by some savage orcs near the stonelands, of course all depending on how violent you want your children to experience their realms adventures. Then tie it into some plot of cutthroat merchants trying to push competition out of the business who hired those orcs and their ties leading to sembian merchant families who want a bigger share of the cormyte market. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Kyrel
Learned Scribe
151 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 17:09:02
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I gotta be honest. I've never GM'ed for a group of kids, so take what I say with suitable amounts of salt...
In general I would probably try and take inspiration from old fairytales and classical childrens stories, and I would probably dial down the politics and complex schemes to a minimum. Basically I'd try to set up a story with fairly clear cut objectives, friends, and enemies. Basically a classical good vs. evil type of thing where I'd make sure that the players would get to have some fights where they can feel heroic. I'd let them have some NPC interactions certainly, but I wouldn't expect them to solve complex riddles and unravel heavy political plots, or to have long in-character conversations and debates with various NPC's they need to negotiate with.
Basically, go old-school and run most of it as a dungeon crawl type campaign where the main focus is on the encounters, so that the kids get to roll some dice and kill some monsters. Throw in some "skill challenges" between combats, so that they can get to use their Skills as well, and then let them find some cool treature.
Of course this also depends somewhat on who the kids are, and what they expect or want from the game. Preferences might well vary.
Hope you can use this for something, and good luck. |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 17:41:48
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| I've taught kids at the age 13-16 (I'm a teacher) and I find it a harrowing experience. Still, its a gateway to creativity, improved English and social skills. But I can't imagine running a game for seven year olds! Do they have the patience and understanding? I am curious to hear how it all goes down, will you post your progress? |
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Khonger
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 18:15:51
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I will gladly post my progress! I'm excited that someone else is interested.
Won't be too bloody, no gore and viscera, but the young ones are tough. Enemies will mostly be knocked out or captured/arrested. They won't be hopping aboard the murder train, but we also won't be roleplaying an episode of Dora the Explorer. I think I've found a happy medium just for my youngsters.
I like the fairy tale/children's stories angle, and it's something I've taken into account. The youngest and I are reading The Hobbit for the first time. We read about 10-15 pages every night. The elder is very into Greek Mythology right now, thanks to the Percy Jackson series. |
Khong! |
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Khonger
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 18:24:58
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Oh yeah, in case it's relevant, my wife is also going to play. She'll be rehashing an old elven rogue character of hers that she used to play when we were younger.
Family Game Day! |
Khong! |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 18:53:41
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I think this is an awesome idea.
The only personal experience I have in this area is being the kid... I was 7 or so when I started playing D&D. I had a short attention span the rest of the time, but on game night I was focused on a goal... bouncing in my chair and yelling out random ideas, but I was thrilled to be there. So while it can be difficult to hold children's attention, I gotta believe it's possible. Also, my first character ("Scooter the Sneaky") was killed by giant rats pretty early on, and I handled it pretty well according to all the adults who were present. When I've told that story to other folks, sometimes the response is "Oh wow, I would never let my kid's character be killed..." And I'm not saying you shouldn't think about that, but I think part of the value in "tabletop" RPGs over video games is in the fact that there are consequences for your actions. In a video game, you just respawn... maybe you have to start from your last save point. In a real RPG, you start over. There's time and effort (varying amount depending on the depth of the game, of course) that have to be expended coming up with a new character and history, and starting a new interaction with the other characters. Back when I was 7, the DM (mom, I think) just had me roll up a new character and as soon as I was done I was back in the game. Anyway, my point is that I think role-playing will be an incredibly valuable mind-expander for them. They'll be way ahead of the curve when it comes to "putting yourself in someone else's shoes."
And I know you're not looking for feedback on your parenting, but given the fact that game night was the bright spot in my childhood I can't help but notice that your kids seem pretty fortunate. Sounds like you're building a happy, close family centered on their education and well-being. Kudos on that. It takes a great person to be a great parent. /Salute! |
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Khonger
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 19:24:10
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Thank you, sir.
It's nice to hear some perspective from the other side of the table. That isn't something I expected to receive, but greatly appreciated. |
Khong! |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 20:27:37
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I think going for something like The Hobbit is a really good idea. Moral choices shouldn't be too ambiguous, but something along the lines of Thorin ("he's a good man, just proud and greedy") or the Elvenking ("he's not evil, he just doesn't like dwarves") would be possible. Have them work their way around to the fact that just because someone doesn't agree/is working against you doesn't mean they're a bad person, and let them get a chance to try and change their minds.
And if they can't, well, pummeling in the grand D&D tradition works well too. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Khonger
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 20:53:55
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I like that idea. I think the little ones would be bored if it were overly simplistic.
Thanks! |
Khong! |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 21:55:18
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I think the best introduction to the Forgotten Realms would be something more akin to the first book of Harry Potter. Spend a lot of time flushing out the fantastic details and descriptions. As the character Harry was new to his world filled with magic and that made the mind of Harry and countless millions children embrace the wonder of a magical world, the Forgotten Realms is a place filled with magic and wonder.
Don't tell them they see a magic missile, describe it, make the magic magical. Likewise, a magical sword +1 has little enough interest to it but its story might be the stuff of legend.
Also, find the parts of that world that you can see in your own world... do you live near a copse or woods? A River? Anything fantastic that might inspire ideas of adventure? If you're from a city, perhaps locate your campaign's base in Suzail in the city's heart so it is a common point of reference.
Finally, most kids that age love to solve puzzles. While fighting your way through an army might be fun, so is figuring out a puzzle or mystery.
Perhaps there first adventure would be the recovery of something or someone missing. |
Edited by - The Masked Mage on 06 Feb 2013 21:58:28 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 22:38:35
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The age is indeed a concern, the 7 year old might not care about character and might perfer to roll dice. TSR never indicated game was suited for less then 10. I have had players younger, it does not have worked out well.
That said it depends on the players, a game with someone 30 years old can fall apart quicker then one with a child or two in the game. There is no one answer, because each group is different. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 22:49:26
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Rather than offer mountains of advice I present only my favourite secret trick:
Always have a DM-NPC who is engaging, amusing, and likeable, not necessarily a hero (not necessarily even competent) but still a character the young ones really like having around. An impish and troublesome rogue like Volo, or the even more troublesome imposter Volo, or a not-quite-potent apprentice Harpell (who strongly resembles Ron Weasley from Harry Potter), etc.
Avoid playing any special prestige-class sorts because they'll steal the thunder from PCs, and most especially avoid paladins and priests or your players will grumble about babysitters. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 23:18:57
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I've introduced three of my cousins to the game, and they were all between 8-12 at the time, so I suppose it dependson the kids. Mine were actually pretty quick to pick it up, and two of them actually came up with interesting backgrounds for their characters. Once they understood how the game worked, they took off with it, and really enjoyed playing. I kept things fairly simple and straightforward in the role-play aspect, with good guys and bad guys being fairly obvious- except for one adventure I had set in a small villagethat was slowly being taken over by dopplegangers who took the places of certain town leaders. They liked it, and one of them was even trying to help some of the less fortunate villagers out.
The long and short of it is, know the kids involved- what they can handle mentally and emotionally, as well as their strengths and weaknesses as players. They might get a little upset if a character dies, but just remind them that they can always roll up a new one and keep playing! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2013 : 18:31:46
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I often played at home with my children: 10 year old boy, 7 year old boy and 5 year old daughter...and my wife.
Here are the things I've found that they enjoy:
Outsmarting people "bigger" than they are: Ogres are awesome for kids to not just beat down...but outsmart. Play an ogre and a dimwit giant and not a man-eater bent on rape and eating things...kids don't go for the gruesome.
Helping people: my middle child plays a halfling Cleric/Thief...and while he likes to steal things from "bad people" he enjoys when the poor people he gives money to heap praise on him...which brings us to praise...
PRAISE: children love to hear praise, they seem to love the celebration parties the villagers throw for them when they defeat the goblins, or chase away the giant (the ogre), they love the tiny gifts (my wife made them hats that the villagers gave to their characters...props rule!).
LOOT: kids love loot. I'm not ashamed to admit that when my kids gather treasure in game, I actually give them Gold Dollars (not really gold...but gold colored dollars you can get at the bank) for Gold Pieces, Quarters as Silver Pieces and my daughter LOVES pennies because she can have lots of them as Copper Pieces! Paper money isn't any good for them...but when they walk away from the game table with their "adventure loot" it makes them excited to play again. I don't see this as a bribe, it is an enjoyable prop.
FOOD: I've taken the opportunity to cook cool food for them when they are gaming too...things that they get at the Tavern or Inn. The kids love to go to Taverns to hear gossip...because while their characters are at the place, THEY (the kids of course) are drinking Soda or Hot Chocolate. My oldest son actually enjoys drinking tea with a cinnamon stick in it...his character is an Elven Fighter/Mage.
PETS: my daughter loves pets (we have two labs); if their character can have a magical pet...that is top of the shelf fun for a kid! It doesn't have to be anything special...but my daughter has a pet magical butterfly given to her by a Unicorn. The butterfly glows in the dark so her character is never without some sort of light. More importantly, even if her pet "dies" (see below), it just "poofs" out of existence and comes right back the next round!
SOME THINGS MY KIDS DON'T LIKE
MATH: counting is important, but simplify things as much as possible. Learning what the numbers mean BEFORE the game is important instead of making my son do math when he is trying to kill an orc! They love to roll the dice, and even add their too hit bonuses and damage bonuses to the dice...but I'm not even going to DARE making them keep track of their encumberance! When they start carrying too much, I just let them know that their character is going to get too tired carrying so much...then they decide on what to do.
LISTENING TO LECTURE: sure, puzzles are fun...but kids don't want to hear some Sage run off at the mouth for a half an hour about the Dragon Milkweed the White in the Hoarfrost Peaks of Northern Blahkingdom! They start hearing "erj eoehhd etahhd eldi wwwlasdgjk!" Which means: they have no attention span (even a college student is really, on average, only locked into his Prof. for about 15 minutes). Keep things moving.
DYING: don't kill your kids character...even if there is a cleric in the party that can Raise them from the Dead. Curse them, poison them, drop them off a mountain if you want...just avoid killing their character. As adults, we see this as a ramification of game play...but the game should be enjoyable/challenging not deadly. If you want to teach your children about Loss/Death/mourning and such, have a close friend of their character be killed perhaps...and they go on an adventure to avenge their death or find a powerful cleric to bring their friend back to life.
BEING TOLD WHAT TO DO: my wife plays too...but she doesn't tell the kids what to do. We let them explore the fantasy world they are in. If you want their characters to achieve a goal, don't railroad them to it...use subtle interaction. If you REALLY want them to fight the evil Orc Chief, have an NPC they are friendly with come to them with the horrible news that the Chief has that NPCs little brother as a slave! Nothing motivates children like helping other children who are helpless!
THINGS I'VE NOTICED ABOUT KIDS
Kids don't like alignment restrictions...even though they don't realize they don't like them. To them, Good/Evil is what it is all about. My son Gavin (the halfling Cleric/Thief) LOVES to steal things with his character...but he never does from "good" people. Through play, he would honestly be almost Lawful Good...but he thinks he is Chaotic Good. He steals from "Robber Barons" and other badguys and gives a lot of what he gets to the poor.
Blake (the elven fighter/wizard) also thinks he is Chaotic Good, but he always respects the laws of what "good" land he is in...but woe to the Zhentarim who are "bad guys" who get what they deserve.
Raegan (the Halfling Druid) just likes to help people and is very sweet (obviously because of her age I'm sure)...but I don't worry that she plays more Neutral Good than simply Neutral.
Kids love fantasy, but use lots of props, interaction, special "treats" at the gaming table and it keeps them involved and having fun. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 07 Feb 2013 18:36:17 |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2013 : 20:45:36
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One of the things that the Salvatores really got right in the "Stone of Tymora" young adult mini-series was that the young main hero, Maimun, seemed to keep running into adults who were very mysterious and sphinx-like in their motives and instructions. The grown-ups almost seemed to be aliens to Maimun. And yet, he had to work with them, just the same. I was annoyed at how bizarre the adults seemed at first, but I think it was done for effect, and if that was the case, it worked well. Maimun had to figure his way through the world, only partially understanding the grown-ups around him. Eventually, after several years of maturing, what they were saying to him finally made sense.
The generation gap shouldn't be made into a cliched "us-vs.-them" conflict, but adults should be presented as almost a different race. Reflect the very real fact that is difficult for kids to relate to grown-ups (and vice versa), sometimes. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Khonger
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2013 : 00:24:32
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Wow.
Thank everyone for their input
It's really nice to read about your experiences, Dalor. I will definitely be incorporating some of this into our adventures. We roll on Saturday. Wish me luck. |
Khong! |
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Light
Learned Scribe
Australia
231 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2013 : 08:34:06
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| So? How did the adventures go? |
"A true warrior needs no sword" - Thors (Vinland Saga) |
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Khonger
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2013 : 14:02:24
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For any of those that are interested, Family Game Night went great.
The youngsters decided that they wanted their characters to be siblings. So Ella the ranger and Leo the wizard set out last night to explore Faerun. They were exploring in the woods when they discovered a cave. Being very curious, they entered. Within the cave, they found some tunnels that had obviously been carved by intelligent hands. Exploring further, they did battle with some statues that came to life. They avoided some traps and found a locked door. After solving the riddle that unlocked the door, they discovered a room that had once been a wizard's secret hideout. The hideout had been abandoned and ransacked. They found the wizard's journal and a few pages of what had been his spellbook. Using the journal they found a secret door that led to a chamber that housed a portal.
Unfortunately it was getting late. So attempting to go through the portal will have to wait until next time. They really enjoyed when I spoke in different voices. I was surprised by how thorough the two of them were in hashing out their characters histories. The youngest, playing the ranger, really wants to have a pet hellhound. She saw a picture of one while i was thumbing through a monster manual and decided that she had to have one. I told her maybe she would find one on her adventures.
It was awesome. The youngest went to bed drawing pictures of monsters, and the oldest went to bed telling me about other characters he wanted to play. It took us so long to get them calmed down and asleep. Afterwards the missus and I sat in front of the fire talked about how excited they were and how much fun we had.
Thanks everyone for their awesome advice. Good game, guys. |
Khong! |
Edited by - Khonger on 10 Feb 2013 14:04:18 |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2013 : 15:53:44
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Ranger with a hellhound? I think you need to tell them about the alignment issues  |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2013 : 16:45:19
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Nah...find a hellhound pup and raise it. When badguys come, the pup barks and WHOOSH out comes fire at them for some comedic effect.
If a Red Dragon can live in Myth Drannor, then a Ranger can have a "nice" hellhound.  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Khonger
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2013 : 17:52:23
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| Yeah, I'm not gonna burden the young ones with alignment issues if its gonna get in the way of the fun. |
Khong! |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2013 : 11:48:17
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| Thank you for the writeup, very interesting. Good choice to let them fight statues, less gore that way ^^ |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2013 : 14:26:54
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I agree keep alignment out of this game. At best the only thing that should be considered is doing good things, like helping people and doing bad things like robbing the NPC that hired them to do something and they decide pay was not good enough.
As to a hellhound, I would go with nurture concerning if it will be a good companion or a bad one. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2013 : 17:06:08
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@Khonger - It sounds like you've gotten some solid advice from the scribes here at the Keep and that you've got a good start to your game. Congrats!
I will mention one suggestion for future fun (or to mix things up one night in your present campaign). You might consider the 'Chronicles of Narnia' approach to gaming for kids in the Realms. That is, you might have them visit the Realms as their 'real selves' by stumbling through a portal hidden in our world (etc) that gives them the ability to tromp around briefly in the Realms. You'd need to be very careful about the wheres and whats surrounding the visit (because they are playing children then, not war machines), but you could easily slip them an item of power or two to jump them up a bit or merely keep the game role playing centric that evening. The highlight of such a session might be meeting and interacting with their regular game characters and/or a favorite NPC.
Just something to consider! |
Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association |
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School-Aged Realms
