| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Jan 2013 : 18:13:14
|
Hello All,
Can anyone out there tell me if Realms e-books have links in them (presumably at the back of the book) to other Realms e-books (the links leading to an Amazon sales page or the book's page on the WotC website), much as a paper Realms book will list other Realms titles by the author or other books set in the setting?
Also, do any Realms e-books have maps, images or extras not found in the print version of a given book?
|
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
|
|
ChurchofShar
Acolyte
Canada
21 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 00:12:52
|
I just check my kindle copy of Elminster Enraged by Ed Greenwood, and there were links at the top of the table of contents. One was "Other Books by this Author".
As for maps and other artwork, I can't say myself, I tend to stick to paper, the few e-books I've read didn't have anything noticeably extra though. |
Edited by - ChurchofShar on 06 Jan 2013 00:13:09 |
 |
|
|
9thChapter
Learned Scribe
Canada
110 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 02:22:21
|
I am going to put this out there and see if anyone else has an interest (as I do).
What about Realms ebooks with links back to the FR wiki on certain key areas, people, places, etc. I often times find myself cross referencing paper copy to paper copy. Thought it would be cool to have that linkage.
Any app developers out there want to help me flesh this out? I have another thought too. |
Fantasy author of The Rithhek Cage series
http://darrentpatrick.com/the-rithhek-cage-trilogy/ |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 09:21:25
|
Hardcopy books are stuffed full of ads as well. On the back cover, the inner cover sidebars, an "other titles by this author" page somewhere before the beginning, and usually a small catalog at the back offering a few or a few dozen other novels. Not to mention this millennium's trend of putting a teaser chapter from the sequel (or just some half-random other novel) after the main story text.
Electronic books aren't going to be any different in this regard. Although perhaps the publisher can configure the book data and reader to automatically "update" the advertising now and then.
Wizbro might be villified for embedding links to the Realmslore on their own website, but the alternatives are links to non-Wizbro (ie, unofficial and non-cannon) content which is not under their control or no links at all. I suppose I'd rather have these useful links than no links, even if I might never choose to click them. Authors might be villified for embedding links to their other works, but again I think I'd rather have these resources (and methods to contact the authors) than nothing at all. It's just convenient, and there's almost always an option to configure the reader to not display such things.
As a reader I basically skip past all this crap. If the information interests me then I'll deliberately look for it. If not, then the mere fact some producer/publisher/corporation is pushing it into my face means I'll unhesitantly ignore and reject it entirely. For some people this proactive anti-consumerism attitude requires effort, for me it is natural and enjoyable. Most people will respond to the links by clicking on them. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 06 Jan 2013 09:33:02 |
|
|
|
Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 10:34:48
|
My reason for asking the questions were to determine how hard WotC is working to push e-book sales.
I just can't imagine it being that hard to include a complete list of all novels set in the Realms in each e-book. Likewise maps, miscellaneous info related to the novel (artwork, stats for characters and so on).
If a book is a drow-related book, how about the option to click on a name and hear it pronounced out loud? If there are Realms-centric words or phrases sprinkled in, how about the option to click on the word to get a definition (just as you can with regular words when using a Kindle app on a computer).
The point, of course, is to drive sales. The best time to catch a reader with an ad is just after that reader has finished a (hopefully enjoyable) book so they'll buy the next one.
As to Realmslore: all due respect to the wiki guys, but the FR Wiki is unreliable. I'd much rather WotC first purchase and clean up that Wiki before they ever link to it. Or better yet, digitize and create their own database (though I'm sure that, given their uber-penny pinching ways, this will never happen).
In my experience, WotC gets vilified no matter what they do, so they can safely ignore pretty much anyone who wants to vilify them or one of their authors for including links in an e-book that send the reader to other books by that author, books in the same series or books set in the same campaign setting. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
|
|
|
9thChapter
Learned Scribe
Canada
110 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 18:11:19
|
@Jeremy - I like the option of clicking on a word and hearing it out loud. Great idea.
My point in suggesting a link to the wiki (didn't know of another FR database) is that is would help seasoned and new readers in the Realms quickly reference key items. IMO, this adds to the enjoyment of the book/series as there is an instant tie in to the bigger world/lore. The ability to "define" a word on my ipad when reading a book - although not a direct example - is something that adds value for me. Imagine that for FR specific material!
As I said, I don't know if this type of thing is possible...but if anyone thinks it has merit, I would like to explore it further with you. |
Fantasy author of The Rithhek Cage series
http://darrentpatrick.com/the-rithhek-cage-trilogy/ |
|
|
|
BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 19:24:25
|
The cost would probably be prohibitive for WOTC to do it, themselves. It already seems like they don't do enough editing on the works as we receive them, anyways; and this would amount to yet another step in the editing phase, which would serve to lengthen the process and drive up the cost that much more.
That said, I would like the idea if there were links that did not automatically spawn pop-ups or dialog boxes when you scrolled over them, and which you had to manually close out. Those infuriate me, to no end! Passive links, which you have to intentionally click on, are the way to go.
Include the pronunciations on whatever wiki page that the link points to. The link should take a reader to all available info about that subject--not just to one aspect, like the pronunciation.
I do think that the future will bring us hyperlinked everything, in all media. The interconnectedness of our culture, of our species, will be directly facilitated and invigorated by such a practice.
They just need to cut out the automatic pop-ups! |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
|
|
|
Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2013 : 19:43:47
|
| If you are reading an eBook through the Kindle Reader on one of the tablet devices with internet connectivity. Then you have access to a dictionary and you can also do a web search for any word you highlight. It's one of the main reasons why I am in love with eBooks and really don't miss print. As for adding extra material, yes it is very possible for this to happen. But there are costs involved for producing that extra content. That's why we don't always get maps for every novel. Granted, if they optimized their printing scheme, they would probably save enough money to give us some good e-content in those eBooks. |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2013 : 00:14:07
|
Again, costs. Wizbro can't link non-Wizbro content because they have no control over what other people will submit, they can't even promise a third-party website will continue operating. For all they know, FR Wiki could be purchased by some pirate bay and turned into an illegal D&D piracy website, obviously they wouldn't want to ever post links to that in anything they publish.
Maintaining their own website means costs, initial and long-term. They'd have to endlessly write and edit and re-edit their wiki pages for years or decades.
Besides, FR Wiki isn't perfect, it's far from perfect ... but it's still quite reliable for many things and almost always one of the places I check when hunting for Realmslore. Plus, like Candlekeep and other fansites, it gives Wizbro's people access to how their fans interpret and value specific Realms information. I personally think Wizbro gains more from the existing non-Wizbro wiki than they would through their own. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2013 : 13:58:19
|
Publishers already have to upload books in various digital formats. Adding various levels of annotation strikes me as prohibitively complicated. In the print world, annotated books are bigger and more expensive. It seems reasonable to assume that an annotated ebook would be priced higher to offset the additional costs. But many readers feel that the price of ebooks is already too high. And the folks who have inexpensive e-readers are not going to want to pay high prices for features they can't access.
That said, there are some fascinating options. I'm looking at iBook Author, an app for creating multi-media ebooks for the iPad. It looks as if it would be great for creating textbooks and other graphics-intensive books, but there's also interesting possibilities for annotated novels. I suspect the amount of work involved would be staggering, and when all's said and done, the result would only be available to folks who own iPads. But I plan to take a stab at it this year, so in a few months I'll be better informed on this topic. :)
|
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 07 Jan 2013 14:01:03 |
|
|
|
Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2013 : 17:52:13
|
As a moderately technically literate reader, the question for me (and I hope others) is what’s the minimum I expect from an e-book?
For example, I want maps. WotC has tons of maps on file. Why aren’t these in their e-books?
People are right to say there is a cost involved in some sort of annotation or feature inclusion in an e-book, however to me there’s a point where this concept gets reduced to the absurd.
The question shouldn’t be that it costs money. The question(s) should be what makes WotC’s e-book offerings unique? What makes them better and worth a reader’s time? What sort of extra layout in production costs can provide a better than average return? Which e-readers reach the most users?
In my very much admittedly armchair point of view, the best return on one’s time put in is when you collect and collate lore, because once the work of collecting is done, it can be used later, again and again.
For example, if WotC takes the time to create a feature located on the back page of just one e-book whereby a reader can click on a list of character names and/or unique-to-the-Realms words in that book, and be able to hear them pronounced or get a definition, then 1) that work is done and 2) WotC is doing something that nobody else is doing for fantasy fiction e-books (so far as I know).
WotC also gets the benefit of being able to turn these unique features into a library of sorts, one book at a time, to promote online subscriptions.
If WotC instead decides to place that work on their website, and place a link in the back of the e-book to this info (to go along with the links we now know are in the front of their e-books), isn’t reader that much more likely to explore the website, maybe join the community, learn more about the Realms and buy another book?
I guess for me it’s kind of a head scratcher WotC isn’t doing more with their e-books to attract readers and drive readers to more content on their website. This is what drives sales. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
|
|
|
9thChapter
Learned Scribe
Canada
110 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2013 : 18:30:51
|
@Elaine - completely agree with iBook author for the iPad. It is a fantastic tool. It seems to me that this would lend itself well to the FR universe given that we are so steeped in lore. I imagine some sort of product that is crossed with the Grand History of the Realms, including maps and perhaps audio where it makes sense. How unique would that be?! :)
@Jeremy - making the books 1) unique; and 2) more "exciting" for Realms fans to read would be a big step forward in my view. I agree with you. I simply know what I'd like to see when I am reading - like you said, access to maps. As well, I would like links to relevant places, people etc when I come across them to help get me more fully immersed.
If the folks at WotC are listening, I'm putting my hand up. Who's with me? :) |
Fantasy author of The Rithhek Cage series
http://darrentpatrick.com/the-rithhek-cage-trilogy/ |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2013 : 15:21:59
|
quote:
ElaineCunningham
Publishers already have to upload books in various digital formats. Adding various levels of annotation strikes me as prohibitively complicated. In the print world, annotated books are bigger and more expensive. It seems reasonable to assume that an annotated ebook would be priced higher to offset the additional costs.
I think I'd personally use the word "realistic" instead of "reasonable". The costs for typesetting, layout, editing, etc are going to be the same whether you click Print or not, although of course the e-copy will not require any printing costs or materials or logistics or transport or storage. At the risk of seeming rude or harsh, a business complaining about software difficulties is not very pro, WotC must choose to either hire/train people who are digital savvy or forever pay percentages as external costs.quote:
Jeremy Grenemyer
... what’s the minimum I expect from an e-book?
For example, I want maps. WotC has tons of maps on file. Why aren’t these in their e-books?
Is there no way to achieve a compromise? A well-annotated map would require initial costs, but wouldn't be as prohibitively involved to maintain as a full wiki, it could easily be chopped up and re-used in every subsequent ebook at no cost. This would provide a fully "updated" accurate map of a region with each ebook, what a great way to encourage D&D gamers to buy more D&D novels. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2013 : 18:32:52
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
ElaineCunningham
Publishers already have to upload books in various digital formats. Adding various levels of annotation strikes me as prohibitively complicated. In the print world, annotated books are bigger and more expensive. It seems reasonable to assume that an annotated ebook would be priced higher to offset the additional costs.
[quote]I think I'd personally use the word "realistic" instead of "reasonable". The costs for typesetting, layout, editing, etc are going to be the same whether you click Print or not, although of course the e-copy will not require any printing costs or materials or logistics or transport or storage. At the risk of seeming rude or harsh, a business complaining about software difficulties is not very pro, WotC must choose to either hire/train people who are digital savvy or forever pay percentages as external costs.
 I haven't seen WotC complaining of software difficulties. My comment was a general and personal observation: annotation takes time and money.
Personally, I think annotated novels would be a nifty idea. It's something I've been looking into doing for some of my own projects. But the more I learn about the process, the more clearly I see how much the process would involve. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 09 Jan 2013 20:27:51 |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11704 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2013 : 20:05:49
|
Just wondering, is anyone else irritated when reading an e-book if there's a map at the front and no immediate way to just click and go to the map and see "where things are happening?". That's one thing I like about a paperback, especially with stuff like the song of fire & ice series (i.e. Game of Thrones), that as I'm reading and see a new city name, etc... I can just flip to the front real quick to get an idea of where it is. The e-book is nice though when reading at 2 am and not having to deal with a booklight.
I understand where people would like hyperlinks to wizard's website, etc... and yes, that would be cool, but I'm just thinking simpler. The map is already included with the book, can they not have a "map" tab that you can touch just to see the picture of the map. Similiarly, a tab for "cover picture" might be something some folk might like. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2013 : 03:19:38
|
With Microsoft Reader .lit e-books, readers can click on a link at the top that takes them to Cover Page, Table of Contents, etc.
I wonder if programmers could just add some more tabs, such as Map, Dramatis Personae, Pronunciation Guide, etc.?
When reading e-books, I just CTRL+PGUP to the beginning, scroll to the Table of Contents or whatever, and then back up a few page vies to return to where I was at first. It's complicated to type all that out here, but muscle memory makes it practically as simple to do with an e-book as with a hardcopy one. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
|
|
|
9thChapter
Learned Scribe
Canada
110 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2013 : 05:39:23
|
For the iPad, iBooks allows you to click back to the table of contents. On that page there are tabs for "bookmarks", "notes", and "highlights". I don't really use the notes tab. I do use highlights (great for scanning back through a book when you are done to either look up words, places, etc) and table of contents, however. Love my iBooks app!
To your point, BEAST, I could foresee another tab there for maps or dramatis personae or other items. One thought I had earlier was some sort of database linkage. Perhaps instead of linkng to the Web, that is where the ebook developer could house the data in which highlighting a word in the body of the text would take you back to?
If there's an ebook developer out there, let me know :) |
Fantasy author of The Rithhek Cage series
http://darrentpatrick.com/the-rithhek-cage-trilogy/ |
|
|
|
Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2013 : 10:10:50
|
I just read the Cold Steel and Secrets novellas yesterday, and WotC could certainly add some more publicity for their own books in their e-books. The only things these novellas had was a list of Rosemary Jones' other books and a date saying when the next e-novella in the series was out.
No mention of other Neverwinter books or other recent Forgotten Realms releases. You can't expect to sell books if you don't even publicize them in your own releases and e-books don't have the visibility of being on a shelf in a bookstore. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Do Realms e-books have ads or links inside?
