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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 04 Jun 2013 :  03:00:37  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

So are scriptorium (where holy books are copied), refectory, and various other real-world terms.
I'd like to see more of these detailed, actually, in the Realmslore.

Pending that, however, could Ed provide some snippets on a few scriptorium and refectories that perhaps haven't made it into the setting material?

Many thanks milady.

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 04 Jun 2013 :  03:02:02  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by lordsknight185

Well I said "scavenge hunt" less-so as "Ima find the old physical copy" and more so "Hmm I hope they release it eventually as a pdf ultra cheap one day" >.>;



You may be waiting a while, for that. There is quite the library to go thru, to make things into pdf. I'm not sure if that was one of the ones previously available as a pdf or not...

I was patient and got a copy in really good shape for something like $20 or $25, from eBay.

Or keep an eye on nobleknight.com, as I've seen copies [in various states of preservation] available for reasonable prices pop up from time to time.

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Joebing
Learned Scribe

USA
202 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2013 :  01:04:39  Show Profile Send Joebing a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by lordsknight185

Well I said "scavenge hunt" less-so as "Ima find the old physical copy" and more so "Hmm I hope they release it eventually as a pdf ultra cheap one day" >.>;


I have this as a pdf if you need a copy. PM me. There isn't much I don't have in pdf format from the old TSR days.

Now plugging away on mass conversion to 5e, as well as my imprint J. Halk Games.

http://www.facebook.com/JHalkGames

First adventure on DM Guild: Lair of Elaacrimalicros
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lordsknight185
Learned Scribe

USA
91 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2013 :  01:11:48  Show Profile Send lordsknight185 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Joebing

quote:
Originally posted by lordsknight185

Well I said "scavenge hunt" less-so as "Ima find the old physical copy" and more so "Hmm I hope they release it eventually as a pdf ultra cheap one day" >.>;


I have this as a pdf if you need a copy. PM me. There isn't much I don't have in pdf format from the old TSR days.



That's a lovely offer, but copyright infringement I think? Just warning as I wouldn't want to see anyone getting banned from Candlekeep for a simple mistake.
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Joebing
Learned Scribe

USA
202 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2013 :  01:31:41  Show Profile Send Joebing a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by lordsknight185

quote:
Originally posted by Joebing

quote:
Originally posted by lordsknight185

Well I said "scavenge hunt" less-so as "Ima find the old physical copy" and more so "Hmm I hope they release it eventually as a pdf ultra cheap one day" >.>;


I have this as a pdf if you need a copy. PM me. There isn't much I don't have in pdf format from the old TSR days.



That's a lovely offer, but copyright infringement I think? Just warning as I wouldn't want to see anyone getting banned from Candlekeep for a simple mistake.


You make a good point, though Wizbro cannot really do anything over OOP books (I am not selling them), I am sure there may be some frowning upon Candlekeep over it by them. Sorry people.

Now plugging away on mass conversion to 5e, as well as my imprint J. Halk Games.

http://www.facebook.com/JHalkGames

First adventure on DM Guild: Lair of Elaacrimalicros
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2013 :  04:38:53  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Indeed. Let's try to keep any mention of official PDF sharing of copyrighted material to a minimum here at Candlekeep.

Thank you.

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Joebing
Learned Scribe

USA
202 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2013 :  19:14:22  Show Profile Send Joebing a Private Message
THO, has ED gotten a chance to find out if Sumbral is still non-discolsure yet? Got my PCs running circles right now, trying to distract them.

Now plugging away on mass conversion to 5e, as well as my imprint J. Halk Games.

http://www.facebook.com/JHalkGames

First adventure on DM Guild: Lair of Elaacrimalicros
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 05 Jun 2013 :  21:36:41  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message
The first part of Ed's newest Pathfinder novella, A Matter of Knives can now be read over at the Paizo blog.

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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gomez
Learned Scribe

Netherlands
254 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2013 :  13:16:32  Show Profile  Visit gomez's Homepage Send gomez a Private Message
I figured most of the people here would like to see card #69 on the Countdown to Gen Con, that being:

The Hooded One : https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=508316445903082
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lordsknight185
Learned Scribe

USA
91 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2013 :  13:34:43  Show Profile Send lordsknight185 a Private Message
I believe a strong "giggity" is in order for certain decisions on that one, aye?
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14549 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2013 :  13:51:20  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
NICE

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2013 :  14:12:07  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
That's awesome stuff! And a great promotion for Candlekeep as well.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14549 Posts

Posted - 06 Jun 2013 :  14:18:47  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by lordsknight185

A question, Lady THO, as you have peaked a curiosity. So You Mentioned Ed working on "The Five Shires" (Which I just looked up what that is) but it is not marked as a realms product (Infact it is marked as a "Gezetter") So does the information therein pertain to Hin of faerun at all? If it does I may have to work a bit of a scavanger hunt for that one.



It was written as a Known World supplement. However, when I commented to Ed about how readily it could be ported to the Realms, his response was:

quote:
Sure. Superimpose the Luiren cities and government structure, shift places "just a little" to make room for them, and, yes, it works admirably for that. Almost as if someone designed it that way. ;}


I'll also note that it's not easy to find it for a reasonable price -- I've see it go for $50. Ed also told me that some copies have duplicated pages due to a printing issue.
I've actually overlapped the two, and its a damn good fit.

I'm on my way out the door, but hopefully I'll find time later (over the next few days) to post an image of that. I was inspired by Dalor Darden and This Thread. In that conversion I flipped it upside down and placed in the Gulthmere. In my newer one, I moved all of Luiren North, and overlapped it with The Five Shires. I really wanted to flesh-out Luiren, and that product was an excellent way to do so (I even asked Ed a question about Black Fire awhile back, and he said he play-tested those mechanics in his home FR game).

Its one of the very few things I have left from the fire, and I cherish it. All of those Mystara Gazeteers were excellent (even if the Orc one was a bit silly), and worth acquiring, IMO.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 06 Jun 2013 14:19:28
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Joebing
Learned Scribe

USA
202 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2013 :  01:16:26  Show Profile Send Joebing a Private Message
HAHAHAHA! THO's initials wouldn't happen to be J.C., would they?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=180418555454188&set=a.132950103534367.29837.132928466869864&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf

Now plugging away on mass conversion to 5e, as well as my imprint J. Halk Games.

http://www.facebook.com/JHalkGames

First adventure on DM Guild: Lair of Elaacrimalicros
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paladinnicolas
Learned Scribe

85 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2013 :  12:00:23  Show Profile Send paladinnicolas a Private Message
Dear THO, could you please ask Ed the following? To please, please include a nation or plots that permit to play political intrigue games in the dndnext version of the Forgotten Realms, something like old Tethyr during the civil war. Could you please ask him to only answer with a yes or no if he has already planned to include this sort of possibility? Thanks!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30430 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2013 :  12:57:19  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by paladinnicolas

Dear THO, could you please ask Ed the following? To please, please include a nation or plots that permit to play political intrigue games in the dndnext version of the Forgotten Realms, something like old Tethyr during the civil war. Could you please ask him to only answer with a yes or no if he has already planned to include this sort of possibility? Thanks!



Such a decision would not be up to Ed, since he does not control what happens to the setting. He has to work within whatever parameters WotC dictates.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14549 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2013 :  13:22:23  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
From what was said at Gencon, I think he has somewhat more 'power' then that, this time out. He is like the 'captain of the ship', but the ship itself is owned by a large trading coster. From what I understand, that means he has a job to do, but he has a lot of leeway in deciding 'the best course'.

Of course, that still means they have the power to veto anything he would want to do.

He created a setting that was an unparalleled success, and then for three editions they chipped away at it, until they were "unhappy with the numbers". So who would YOU listen to? The people that slowly lead it down its current (underwhelming) path, or the guy who created the very thing that blew us all away 25 years ago?

Everything they said last year was about 'making things right', and saying Ed was 'steering the ship' was of the foremost importance to them. Now, I am going merely by what was said, but it seemed pretty clear to me that they were 'owning up' to what 4e was... in not-so-many-words. This is why I still hold out hope for FR (and 5th edition).

What they are striving for is that sense of wonder we got when we opened the OGB - a tall order, and only Ed himself could pull that off.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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BadCatMan
Learned Scribe

Australia
288 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2013 :  15:40:20  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message
Hello. I've come across something of a puzzling contradiction in the lore that I hoped could be cleared up, or perhaps further confused. :) I've used the following tale in my game to entertain a gold half-dragon PC, vaguely hinted to descend from Tlanchass. Now I'm compiling lore of the Vast and got a bit stuck on this point.

In The City of Ravens Bluff, page 99100, we get the lovely tale of "The Tears of The Dragon". In Ravens Bluff in the Vast, around 1290 DR, Muaralygrym the Mage (or the Dark) sent his murderous gargoyles out to steal the Tears of the gold dragon Tlanchass Hailstorm. The then-Magister, Inhil "Hurler-of-Stars" Lauthdryn was summoned to deal with Muaralygrym, and he pursued the evil mage into the lands outside the city. After a spell-battle, Lauthdryn's broken staff rained down on the city. A few days later, the next magister, Aralagath Tarsil, arrived to report Inhil and Muaralygrym's mutual demise.

Or, we have another tale. In Secrets of the Magister, page 69, we hear of the rogue archmage Glaragama Dunrohiyr of Calaunt, also in the Vast, who slew twenty archmages and named and vowed to kill four more. In 1294 DR, Inhil Lauthdryn took it upon himself to defeat her or bring her to justice, and ventured into the wilderness of the Vast after her. Later, Inhil's broken staff was discovered atop a blasted, burned knoll. Apparently, Glaragama summoned dragons against him, but not before Inhil was able to make her suffer the same fate.

So which story is true?

I've wondered if "The Tears of The Dragon" is a bard's tale, embellished or conflated with the fate of Inhil "Hurler-of-Stars" Lauthdryn, or just a little wrong. Equally possible, Glaragama Dunrohiyr is known to have disguised herself and posed as a man, so she could well be Muaralygrym the Dark. Or maybe Lauthdryn was working on both missions, and survived one only to fall to the other? If both are true, then the location of Lauthdryn's staff is a sticking point.

Thank you very much for any help you can give.

BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki and Candlekeep Wiki
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2013 :  16:39:19  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Momentary aside, but...
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan

Or, we have another tale. In Secrets of the Magister, page 69, we hear of the rogue archmage Glaragama Dunrohiyr of Calaunt, also in the Vast, who slew twenty archmages and named and vowed to kill four more.
... that's always been a pretty evocative set-up [for a one-shot campaign] that's been stuck in my mind since I first read Secrets of the Magister. I'm just not sure how I want to run it...

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14549 Posts

Posted - 08 Jun 2013 :  17:29:41  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
One odd way of reconciling the two (if one wanted to use both): the term 'magister' has more then one meaning in The Realms (so a local reference to 'the Magister' might not mean 'THE Magister').

quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan

I've wondered if "The Tears of The Dragon" is a bard's tale, embellished or conflated with the fate of Inhil "Hurler-of-Stars" Lauthdryn, or just a little wrong.
This is how I sort-of 'fixed it' in my mind, especially considering how close Muaralygrym is to Malaugrym - it appears several tales may have gotten jumbled together just for their entertainment value.

But I eagerly await Ed's answer as well.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Joebing
Learned Scribe

USA
202 Posts

Posted - 08 Jun 2013 :  18:55:55  Show Profile Send Joebing a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan


So which story is true?

I've wondered if "The Tears of The Dragon" is a bard's tale, embellished or conflated with the fate of Inhil "Hurler-of-Stars" Lauthdryn, or just a little wrong.



I have corrected this in my home campaign as bardic error. Bards tell stories, like myths and legends. Even in our world, bards (the lowest rank in the druid religion) did the same. Dates had inaccuracies, varying from bard to bard. Either could be true, or just embellishment on the truth. I checked The Grand History of the Realms , but it did not provide any help. Guess this is definitely one for Ed and THO.

Now plugging away on mass conversion to 5e, as well as my imprint J. Halk Games.

http://www.facebook.com/JHalkGames

First adventure on DM Guild: Lair of Elaacrimalicros
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4948 Posts

Posted - 09 Jun 2013 :  14:59:30  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
Hi Ed and THO

After taking another loving run through "Elminster's Forgotten Realms", I was hoping you could provide us with some lore on any or all of the wizards whose mage sigils are featured on p.181. I'm especially interested to find out anything about Mhaerokh of Telflamm and Miiriskin "the Silent One" of Calimport. Thanks in advance.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1073 Posts

Posted - 09 Jun 2013 :  23:39:01  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan

Hello. I've come across something of a puzzling contradiction in the lore that I hoped could be cleared up, or perhaps further confused. :) I've used the following tale in my game to entertain a gold half-dragon PC, vaguely hinted to descend from Tlanchass. Now I'm compiling lore of the Vast and got a bit stuck on this point.


Interesting quandary indeed!

Being old and all I would use the original lore from Polyhedron 72 (published June 1992) as the basis for the 'truth' and it fits best with your first point taken from the Ravens Bluff accessory (published November 1998). Though in Poly 72 it is Lauthdryn 'Hurler of Stars' with no mention of Inhil as a first name.

In poly 72 it states that 'some 70 years ago' Tlanchass cried etc - the FR realms date would be post Time of Troubles at publication date so circa 1360Dr or so and fits nicely with the Ravens Bluff date of 1290DR.


I suspect that the 1294 entry from SotM is either:

1) out by a few years due to bardic/scribe error

or

2)that another wizard claiming to be the Hurler of Stars fought and died that day

or

3) that the Hurler of Stars had managed a clever cloning trick to come back to life after losing in 1290 (though how Azuth/Mystra would allow this I am unsure about as they died in service?)

I too would like to hear Ed's take on this quandary and obviously more lore on Tlanchass and Archveult's lives and long years of love is most welcome

Kindest regards

Damian
ps Ed can you share more on the Cinnamon dragon mentioned in relation to Archveult's death as well as the other snippets of Cinnamon dragon lore that featured in other Polyhedron issues - is there really a
cinnamon dragon or a mad wizard/archpriest/godling or another powerful beasty shape-changed into the dragon to cause mischief and misdirection?(curious minds etc )

So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005
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rjfras
Learned Scribe

261 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2013 :  01:00:03  Show Profile  Visit rjfras's Homepage Send rjfras a Private Message
Ed, could you tell us anymore about the "sphere of summer" from The North.

This enchantment is a series of complicated spells that creates a sphere of translucent force where plants can be grown in warmth and
controlled moisture throughout the winter. Such spheres also allow the farming of tropical fruits and flowers in northern climes.

How big was it? How long did it last?

How does it compare to a regular greenhouse? Advantages? Disadvantages?

Thank you!
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BadCatMan
Learned Scribe

Australia
288 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2013 :  02:32:10  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message
Sorry if it's not clear. "Hurler-of-Stars" Lauthdryn is clearly the Magister (of magic) in both versions. The City of Ravens Bluff dates Lauthdryn's death to "Some seventy winters ago" from 1370 DR, which matches the 1294 DR date in Secrets of the Magister (I meant to say "around the 1290s DR" earlier).

From what I've seen, it seems The City of Ravens Bluff reprints a lot of the old Polyhedron articles. I assume "The Tears of the Dragon" was too.

It's clearly the same Magister Lauthdryn "Hurler-of-Stars", in the same year in the lands of the Vast, on a similar mission to bring down a rogue archmage, to the death of both. But the identity of the villain, their actions, and the detail of the staff are different.

I'd go with Secrets of the Magister as it's the later source and somewhat more authoritative (though it notes that the deeds of some Magisters may have been confused with those of others).

Genuine mistake or deliberate mystery?

BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki and Candlekeep Wiki

Edited by - BadCatMan on 10 Jun 2013 02:34:00
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