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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Oct 2012 : 23:30:23
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Hi! I'm currently playing and running the Realms with 3.5 edition rules. I am planning to get the Volo guides and some other 2E books like "The Code of the Harpers" because I really like the Harpers. As I understand it the Volo guides for example includes mostly lore and less stats, which is I am looking for. I've heard the Guides on this forum far too much and feel a bit shame for still not reading them.
So I was wondering what are some good mostly lore books that I can get and use in my 3.5 campaign?
Thanks!
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2012 : 23:48:18
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| Thanks for the recommendation, I heard a lot about the Cloak and Dagger too! Need to get these as soon as possible :D |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 00:46:28
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quote:
Originally posted by farinal
Thanks for the recommendation, I heard a lot about the Cloak and Dagger too! Need to get these as soon as possible :D
Aye, the resident rodent is overly fond of Cloak and Dagger!
I like the book a great deal too, it has tons of information about badguys so that you don't have to work too hard as DM to make things happen in your games with villains.
Speaking of Villains, the Villains Lorebook is a pretty good book to have...though not as good as Cloak and Dagger for me:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Villains'_Lorebook |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 01:43:03
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| Forgotten Realms Adventures (Hardcover) is great for info on most of the major cities in the Heartlands |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 03:56:41
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The nice thing about most 2e lorebooks is that they were actually that: lorebooks. 2e had things like the Complete Handbooks for crunch and there was much less of it in the lorebooks than in 3e.
So let's see:
* Sea of Fallen Stars - this one has a bit more crunch than most, in the form of a wizard variant class and magical items, but the more important thing is it introduces an entirely new area to play in: under the water of the Sea of Fallen Stars. This is one of the best books in 2e.
* Cormanthyr - hands down the best elven sourcebook ever written. Much of the timeline was incorporated into the Grand History, but there's a whole lot more in here as well.
* Secrets of the Magister - this one is a bit more esoteric, but if you like wizards and their doings, is definitely worth picking up. Note that this book is different than FR4 The Magister, which is a 1e compilation of magical items and spells that were mostly reprinted in later works.
* Dwarves Deep - And while we're on the topic of the FR series, Dwarves Deep is to dwarves what Cormanthyr is to elves. Amazing stuff. Sadly, there weren't equivalent books for gnomes or halflings published.
Those are four to get you going. In addition to Cloak and Dagger and Volo, they're some of the best stuff from 2e. Oh, and let's also mention Lands of Intrigue and Empires of the Shining Sea, for stuff south of Baldur's Gate. Also really good. Can you tell that 2e had a lot of great products? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 04:29:50
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| Wow thanks! What about Harpers Code? How much of a balance between lore and stats does that one have? And the Secrets of the Magister? |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 05:17:45
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Code of the Harpers is 130 pages and has about 15 pages of 2e magical items, many of which have never appeared in 3e. It also has one monster entry. Secrets of the Magister is also 130 pages and, as might be expected, has a bit more magic, and a couple of unique-to-Mystra monsters. Call it about 20-25 pages, but even a lot of the spells are just as much lore as spell description.
All of the books I mentioned have at least a bit of 2e crunch in them, but the lore far out-strips them. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 06:13:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Code of the Harpers is 130 pages and has about 15 pages of 2e magical items, many of which have never appeared in 3e. It also has one monster entry. Secrets of the Magister is also 130 pages and, as might be expected, has a bit more magic, and a couple of unique-to-Mystra monsters. Call it about 20-25 pages, but even a lot of the spells are just as much lore as spell description.
All of the books I mentioned have at least a bit of 2e crunch in them, but the lore far out-strips them.
Quite. The 2E books, with very few exceptions, did not waste space on full stat blocks, and usually the stat-related stuff was new magic (spells and items) and new monsters. When TSR was publishing 2E, they didn't cram new kits, proficiencies, base classes, and such into every book that came out.
I miss getting books like that. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 13:34:08
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quote:
I miss getting books like that.
You and me both. I loved the format of the 2E books.  |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 02:59:05
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| I bought the Drizzt's Guide to Underdark and Cloak & Dagger. So far I'm greatly enjoying them. Volo's guides are also on my list! I'll probably get the Harper's Code too as it looks like it has mostly only lore too! Thanks for the replies! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 18:59:31
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The Volo's Guides are, in my mind, the most perfect regional campaign guides produced to date, for any setting. You can take those and use them with any edition and any ruleset.
Another oft-overlooked source is the 2e Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms. Its story-like presentation tries to emulate the style of the Volo's guides, albeit imperfectly. Regardless, it gives you a very nice 'feel' for the entirety of the Realms, unlike the Volo's Guides which focus on specific areas. Lots of juicy tidbits hidden in that source which appear nowhere else. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Oct 2012 19:00:40 |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 00:51:41
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| Thanks Markustay! I'm pretty convinced to get the Volos now :D |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 02:38:36
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| I miss Volo and Elminster "fixing" his books. He has to be alive, because there's simply no way he managed to avoid eating an imprisonment spell somewhere along his travels. I could also see him trapped in a bird cage, shrunk down to about 3 inches high and forced to spend the last century or so spilling everything he knows to a wizard or lich. If anything, he's entertaining. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 05:47:09
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I gave him a grandaughter, Volara, who "took up the family business" (the rest of her family thinks she's nuts). She travels about Toril in her commandeered Halruaan skyship (Princess ark, anyone?)  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 18:44:24
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| Better give her a first-mate named Mr. Smeed or maybe a little bald man that's always saying "Inconceivable!" I could see a gnome doing that part well. hehehe. I've always liked the idea of Skyships from when I first saw them in Final Fantasy 2 a good 20 years ago. What was it, the Red Wings from the kingdom Baron? |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2013 : 01:20:40
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| I just got my Faiths and Avatars copy and this is just a very beautiful book. The LORE, the pictures... all excellent. Is the other two deity books of this chain also this much good? |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2013 : 02:23:33
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Volo had incorrigible roguish charm which played well into his unreliable narrator role, and a descendant named "Volara" could be equally roguish. But a new character, say, a "renaissance" alchemist, physician, astrologer, botanist, cartographer, and dabbler in the occult named Bombastus Vinculado Bellerophont von Cormyrheim (widely known as Paravolo) could travel the land in search of medicinal herbs, cures, and folklore - treated as both an expert authority and unreliable narrator due to his unfaltering assumptions and haughty demeanor. (Yep, an encore for the Marco Volo history-ripoff.)
Forgotten Realms Adventures, The North, and City of Splendors as excellent "generic" Realmslore. It would be unwieldy to list all the many great 2E lorebooks here ... do any particular areas interest you, farinal? |
[/Ayrik] |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2013 : 02:38:33
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| I mostly like the Sword Coast and the North along with Silver Marches and High Forest. After the Faiths and Avatars I'm thinkin about getting the other deity book that is about the non-human pantheons like Dark Seldarine etc. Is that close to F&A in excellency and format? I loved the first pages with the various priests and their uniforms pictures for example. Very nice work. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2013 : 03:19:32
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Demihuman Deities is very much like F&A. Powers & Pantheons, Prayers from the Faithful, and FOR10: Warriors & Priests of the Realms are also similar to F&A, each of them has a lot of unique content but also a lot of redundant-overlapping content. Monster Mythology can be useful, but it's not Realms-centric and it can make dull reading. Mythology is also scattered through FOR1: Draconomicon (2E version), PHBR8: Complete Book of Elves, and FR11: Dwarves Deep, but these are also packed with 2E-specific game rules you probably won't use.
Heroes' Lorebook is of course the counterpart for Villains' Lorebook. You've probably heard of FOR4: Code of the Harpers. And I'm thinking you'd like FOR3: Pirates of the Fallen Stars, FOR6: The Seven Sisters, FOR8: Pages from the Mages, FOR11: Cult of the Dragon, FOR12: Demihumans of the Realms, FR2: Moonshae, FR3: Empires of the Sands, FR13: Anauroch, The Vilhon Reach. The Arcane Age stuff (Netheril: Empire of Magic, Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves, Fall of Myth Drannor) provides comprehensive "historical" Realmslore, fairly good overall even though it's very different from Ed's original (non-published, non-canon) conceptions.
Don't forget to add Volo's Guide to Baldur's Gate 2 (really should be titled Volo's Guide to Amn) to your VG list.
You're probably well aware that later editions (most notoriously 4E) imposed some Orwellian retcons on existing Realmslore, so you'll find much material (especially anything about Faerūnian deities) is obsolete or contraindicated. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 31 Jan 2013 03:41:28 |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2013 : 12:45:38
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| I usually stuck with the pre-Spellplague setting. Thanks for the suggestions. |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2013 : 04:11:45
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| Also can some of our veteran scribes tell me how do they think about the Grand History of the Realms book? |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2013 : 04:37:01
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quote:
Originally posted by farinal
Also can some of our veteran scribes tell me how do they think about the Grand History of the Realms book?
I think it should be one of the top books to get a copy of.
It not only has the greatest concentration of history in any book ever published, but it also has a lot of "letters and scrolls" here and there in the entire book written by people of the world.
It really is an awesome book...I count myself lucky every day for having both it...and access to the people that wrote it here at Candlekeep.
Amazing book. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2013 : 05:00:12
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| It seems a bit short though. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2013 : 05:03:49
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quote:
Originally posted by farinal
Also can some of our veteran scribes tell me how do they think about the Grand History of the Realms book?
I was one of the first people -- and I think, possibly even the first person -- to share the link over on the WotC forums. It was there that it got noticed by the guys at the top, who bought it and published it.
Other than a couple bits of questionable art, and the stuff WotC tacked on at the very end, it's a wonderful resource. I'd call it the best resource that came out during the 3.x era. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2013 : 05:22:49
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quote:
Originally posted by farinal
Also can some of our veteran scribes tell me how do they think about the Grand History of the Realms book?
It's the perfect resource for all the kinds of timelines and tidbits you're looking for in the Realms. And they're supplemented by perspective vignettes and sections of historical interest which touch on some of the more important points of Realms events.
In other words, it's a great addition to any Realms fan's library. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2013 : 06:56:50
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| Another handsome vote for GHotR, although I didn't mention it earlier because I thought the OP was seeking pre-3E sourcebooks. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2013 : 11:29:17
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If you're looking for pre- 3rd 3dition stuff, its VERY hard to make a bad choice. The ones you should definitely get are:
Calimport / Empires of the Shining Sea / Lands Of Intrigue / Sea of Fallen Stars / Vilhon Reach / Spellbound / The moonsea / the north are all good regional books.
Elminster's Ecologies
The FOR books - you mentioned Code of the Harpers, others include the Drconomicon, Drow of the Underdark, Pirates of the Fallen Stars, Elves of Evermeet, the Seven Sisters, Giantcraft, Pages from the mages, Cult of the Dragon and Secrets of the Magister... also Prayers from the faithful and Cloak and dagger(which technically were not FOR but would have made sense to be).
There is the Adventures hardcover and the two campaign guides (Campaign Set 1st Ed & Campaign Setting 2nd Ed).
That brings us tor the FR series, which I love. Waterdeep & The North, Old Empires and Shining South were my favorites, but they are all good.
If you use raven's bluff, which I never did because it was too cosmopolitan for me, there is a TON of info for it because it was the original "Living City" There are 4 published books as well as lots of Dragon articles and a bunch of other Articles online.
If you like Drow go get Menzoberranzan Boxed Set. Its terribly out of date as far as all the novels now, but its still very good. Driztt's guide is the newer, broader underdark guide. Still good but i think stretched too thin. Lots of names of places and people - not much description of histories and customs and stuff.
There are the Maztica and Oriental Adventures books as well, which I mostly just ignore, they are like whole other worlds which is fun but hard to gel with. One is like the New world with Indians and conquistadors and the other is like the Far East. Both are woefully short on information given the immense size of the regions.
There is also all the Al'Qadim stuff. An entire Arabian campaign setting that is located on Toril south of Faerun.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2013 : 11:48:54
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| Agreed with TMM on all counts, except that there was period circa mid-1990s when TSR/Wizbro was frantically rushing but poorly managing its product line ... a fair number of D&D sourcebooks (mostly FR sourcebooks) literally cut & pasted entire chapters, sometimes editing blocks of content out while writing new blocks in ... the result is that there's a fair number of "ripoff" 2E books with about 50%-90% of their Realmslore being identical to other books. You'd need every book ever printed to get every little scrap of lore, but you can also get by with just the best one and buy other Realmslore instead of redundant overlaps. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2013 : 12:03:38
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| Very true - the early 2nd edition stuff has a lot of duplication. Campaign Setting copied a lot of Campaign Set. The North copied a lot of The Savage Frontier, etc. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 22:47:44
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Just look for "slade" on the cover, and you can be guaranteed some copy/pasting.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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A question about Volo guides and other 2e books.
