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Originally posted by Joebing

Recently adapted firearms into my group's long-running Realms campaign world and already the resident pyro is wondering how much damage a powder horn or powder keg would cause if it was destroyed. BTW, we are using Faerunian Firearms 3.5 by Alex Putnam from Candlekeep, so we figured this would be the place to ask.

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Originally posted by Hoondatha

A barrel of powder going off for me is an insta-kill for anyone standing nearby, with "nearby" changing depending on how big the barrel and how many they are. Don't even bother rolling dice, if you're that close you're dead. Period.

I don't use smokepowder in my games so I've never had to deal with an exploding powder horn. If it did come up, though, I'd base it off of the backfire damage of the weapon. For most 2e firearms (which is the system I play; can't help with 3.5), a backfire causes 1d6 points of damage. Figure at least some of that comes from the fact that you have the exploding thing against your face, so cut it in half.

So an exploding powder horn would do: [# of charges]d6/2.

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Originally posted by Kris the Grey

Keep in mind that explosions kill with 1) shrapnel and 2) concussive force. So, unless you are packing your containers with shot you are only dealing with the wood/metal/bone in the horn or cask as far as shrapnel and the concussive force of black powder fades pretty quickly. It's not C4 nor is a cask a hand grenade (i.e. designed to kill when it explodes). Even hand grenades and C4 aren't deadly all that far from the blast (http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/50367-mythbusters-grenade-blast-zone-video.htm).

So, I'd say 5d6 damage in a Fireball radius isn't crazy talk. That'll core just about every 1 to 2 HD normal in range. Kegs and horns of powder simply aren't designed to be deadly - quite the opposite - they TRY to make them safe. That and fantasy world black powder (or smoke powder in the Realms) does not combust as quickly and efficiently as modern chemical explosives. This is not to say that if you use that powder to make a DELIBERATE bomb (packed with shot, shaped to enhance the explosion, etc) that you might not have a nasty little bomb on your hands.

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Originally posted by Markustay

In Deadlands D20, a stick of dynamite does 4D10 + 1D10 per stick added.

Doing some quick research, it takes an average of about 2 grams of Black Powder to load a gun, and a single stick of dynamite is about 270 grams. This means a single stick of dynamite contains enough Black powder to fire your gun 135 times! (that seems awfully high, but what do I know?)

That means it would take 135 charges to equal 4d10 of damage, so about 34 charges should equal 1D10 of damage. I don't know how much a horn or keg holds, but that seems pretty insignificant.

EDIT: I've found varying numbers for how much a gun uses - more like a gram for most pistols and 2 grams (and up) for rifles. If we assume FR/Golarion uses fairly primitive, small caliber weapons then its more like 1 gram = 1 charge, which would mean the Black powder horns and kegs will do even less damage then I calculated above (about half that).

The damage an explosion does is also affected by its containment - if you are in an open field you will sustain far less damage then if you were in an enclosed room.

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Originally posted by Markustay

As of now, GIMP... for the time being.

I used to use Photoshop, and hope to be doing so again someday (if I ever manage to settle with the Ins. Co.)

Thanks for the praise - its what keeps me chuggin' along.

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Originally posted by Markustay

I had one that was about 75% done (a world map). Kara-Tur was 98% complete, and then I was moving onto Zakhara (which was started, but very undetailed at that point).

Unfortunately life did away with that map, the computer, my room... LOL.

So now I am working on another, and in a weird way, I felt almost 'uplifted' by my personal tragedy. By removing all my old stuff, it gave me a fresh start - something I wanted to do but was loathe to do because of all the work I put into the older stuff. The fire was almost cathartic - it removed all my attachments to canon (I had hundreds of game books and other reference material). It allowed me to view things in a new light.

I am moving far away from the topic now, but one last thing - I've sort of become a Kossuth worshiper through all of this. The fire did not destroy me; it set me free. In hindsight, I realize our 'stuff' can be become shackles. I was literally drowning in my material things, and now a great weight has been lifted. In life, you don't always get what you want, but sometimes, you get what you need.

Anyhow, I am placing locales today on my new Western Heartlands map, so I will hopefully have that done in a timely fashion. Then I will do the Eastern Heartlands, and then onto the rest. So as to not repeat my previous mistake, I will be releasing them piecemeal, rather then waiting until the entire world is done. My plan is to eventually do Kara-Tur again, and possibly Zakhara at some point. If I learned anything, it is to set yourself more realistic goals.

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Originally posted by Markustay

So now I am working on another, and in a weird way, I felt almost 'uplifted' by my personal tragedy. By removing all my old stuff, it gave me a fresh start - something I wanted to do but was loathe to do because of all the work I put into the older stuff. The fire was almost cathartic - it removed all my attachments to canon (I had hundreds of game books and other reference material). It allowed me to view things in a new light.

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Originally posted by Joebing

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Originally posted by Kris the Grey

Keep in mind that explosions kill with 1) shrapnel and 2) concussive force. So, unless you are packing your containers with shot you are only dealing with the wood/metal/bone in the horn or cask as far as shrapnel and the concussive force of black powder fades pretty quickly. It's not C4 nor is a cask a hand grenade (i.e. designed to kill when it explodes). Even hand grenades and C4 aren't deadly all that far from the blast (http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/50367-mythbusters-grenade-blast-zone-video.htm).

So, I'd say 5d6 damage in a Fireball radius isn't crazy talk. That'll core just about every 1 to 2 HD normal in range. Kegs and horns of powder simply aren't designed to be deadly - quite the opposite - they TRY to make them safe. That and fantasy world black powder (or smoke powder in the Realms) does not combust as quickly and efficiently as modern chemical explosives. This is not to say that if you use that powder to make a DELIBERATE bomb (packed with shot, shaped to enhance the explosion, etc) that you might not have a nasty little bomb on your hands.

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I have a very...unique gaming party. They think outside the box. One really likes big booms, so I fully expect black powder to be made into bombs, or A BIG BOMB. I am limiting it severly, but's who to say they don't make an insane Craft (Alchemy) check to make some? Just need to be prepared.

I understand how black powder works. The shrapnel and concussive force is the majority of the damage outside the fire zone (and even inside), but what is the radius of a blast for those? Consider an average pack job, straight black powder, no shot. (If they try to make a nasty bomb, I think they will fail a Dex check and lose a hand; need to rein them in a bit).

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Originally posted by Markustay
On Topic:
I agree with Slevas - FR/medieval tech isn't RW modern tech, and things were highly unstable, and early firearms, canon, and bombs usually, eventually lead to experimenter's deaths (and the poor saps who were 'honored' with testing them). People were also very afraid of explosions - me thinks there is a wee bit of 'meta-gaming' going on there (but of course, that's completely YOUR call).

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