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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Sep 2012 : 08:54:11
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This was stated to be the fortress home / capital of the Hlundadim-Goblins.
Has anyone got some verified information about the current state of it? ( as of 1370's )
Following Markustay's comment in the thread about rumors Stonelands, the Netherese might have done some digging there, but not sure.
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2012 : 11:48:05
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| noone any ideas? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2012 : 16:52:37
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I placed it on my Stonelands map (kinda centered it in the Goblin Marches), but other then that, nothing canon. I had always considered it an even more ancient fortress that the goblins took-over (usually, goblins aren't big on building anything).
Glad you reminded me of that - a writing piece I am doing is focused on the Stonelands. I may spin it as a Thaeravel ruin. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2012 : 18:29:14
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my pleasure, Markustay
I also thought at first it was taken over, but it is repeatedly stated, that the Hlundadim Goblins built fortresses and cities, did farming and so on.
Also, in the entry of elminster's ecologies, the sage tells repeatedly, that most of the knowledge the Goblinoid races have today about trap-building etc. they have from these days, still.
I will drop something in Ed's poll I think, maybe we can get some bits 'n pieces of lore on it from him ;) but I think it is as usually highly NDA |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2012 : 19:09:01
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Yes, but in the Realms, just about everyone (sentient species) build on top of ruins - nearly every settlement in Faerūn is built on or near an old settlement or structure.
Thus, the goblins may have found the foundations (and some catacombs beneath) of an ancient Tharaeval, Netherese, Creator Race (Batrachi and Sarrukh were active in the region), etc, etc.. structure and built on top of it. So you can have 'things' that even the goblins were unaware of (and maybe Hlundadim himself was something that they accidentally 'awoken').
I really dislike that the designers used the name of the guy for the kingdom... there is using past lore, and then there is applying it incorrectly. It feels forced to me.
Personally, I would use everyone - thats been my plan for quite some time for that area. I have a feeling something impacted into the Tunlands in ancient times, and many power groups have vied for control of the region... and all of them came to bad ends. Even the Elves ran into misery there (The Battle of God's Theater). My thoughts are that there is a network of caverns below that entire region - the Tunlands, Stormhorns, Goblin Marches, and The Stonelands - that date back to the Days of Thunder, and something or someone is still protecting parts of whatever is there. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Sep 2012 19:15:31 |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2012 : 08:49:19
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Markus, I agree with you, as usual. Especially with building ontop ruins.
I also specifically do not like the feeling that the name for the Kingdom was after the being who ( supposedly ) led it.
I always have thought that the whole region, and even to a vast extent the surrounding mountain ranges are under tunneled by a vast network of caverns, where something really ancient lies. As you said, so far noone trying to build some empire there succeeded.
My first thoughts were that phaerimm are there, due to the close proximity to anauroch also plausible. But then, as you said, disaster struck various races before the phaerimm knowingly came.
Highly interesting would also be, not only WHO is still below the lands, but WHAT are they so eagerly protecting.
My dream view wouldbe a totally secretive massive nation of goblinoid races in the deep, with all the power a nation like this could have.
Similar to the Skullbiters in -3605 in the north.
Imagine what they could have built below, in the millennia they dwell there. This would also be in line with the explainations of hobgoblin behaviour from ED and THO. They do not stirr up any trouble, but protect what they have, and the masses of tribes on the surface or upper underdark are their security-zone
We know such kingdoms exist by canon, just as Holoraurar in the south.
I had picked up this "hidden empire" theory already in another poll here.
Is it a coincidence, that the teerac on water have found strong allies just below their islands, or that the Melial can still hold their pace in skull gorge?
And what about the Orc, that when getting caught dropped the words, that the humanoids in the area are much much closer from being re-united than the humans think??
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Edited by - Jakuta Khan on 29 Sep 2012 08:51:25 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2012 : 19:21:59
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You may be happy to know (or may not) that I am doing an article on Gwarch for the Loremaster FR Netbook (since that town was my creation - it used to be in my Greyhawk campaign).
I've tied the wolf-mutations (from the rumors section) to the 4e Worgs. 
The article will cover the 'early years' (pre-1e), the major campaign era, and the 4e era. I plan to gloss-over the wailing years (for some reason, that seems to be the right thing to do - I like the idea of leaving an entire century open for DMs to do whatever the hell they want). All the major factions and groups will be covered (its a 'goblin trading-post'). Lets just say the stuff 'on the surface' isn't the most interesting part.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2012 : 19:46:18
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Niice to hear, looking forward to that one indeed.
But Gwarch is the village of the teerac, right?
It is, in D&D Next, definately about time to have a sourcebook about the goblinoid races |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2012 : 20:25:31
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| Right, but it is a little more then that now. The original village encompassed only the tiny island in the center of a small lake, and the caverns beneath. The trading post is mostly around the lake shore now - only goblinoids may come onto the isle itself (and even that is limited). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2012 : 06:39:22
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Where is gwarch mentioned, is it in some 4e sourcebook?
for I shun away from all these, at least up to now.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2012 : 23:23:28
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Gwarch, as far as I know, is not mentioned in any written format in any edition (except as a city in my Greyhawk campign, and as a village in my FR campaign). It does, however, appear on the 4e map of Cormyr.
Brian R. James was kind enough to transfer a few of my homebrew locales (from my Stonelands maps) to the 4e official map. 
A 'Gwrach' is a Welsh witch, akin to a hag. In my GH campaign 'The Gwarch' ruled the city of Gwarch. In my FR Lormaster article, I plan to make that part of the village's history. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Sep 2012 23:57:08 |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2012 : 00:06:41
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Boy, that is nice. Your own Homebrew making it into the official lore. Well done, Markustay.
Really looking forward to the article.
But coming back to Araugul, can we expect anything to be shared on this site, or NDA'd? What do you think?
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2012 : 00:23:32
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| Unless someone does an official Stonelands article or product, I doubt it. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2012 : 07:15:57
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I was looking at the FRIA map of the Anauroch today, and I noticed something peculiar: Araugul is in the southern desert. 
So, on the map I am currently working on, I plan to place it right between the Stonelands and the Goblin Marches, and on the desert border, which should satisfy all sources. I also tweaked the hell out of Skull Gorge so the lore made more sense (because it is supposed to be the only route a large force can take out of the Marches west). I even managed to get Veilstone to make more sense (Ladydove is still in a very odd spot). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 06 Oct 2012 07:16:48 |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2012 : 10:01:27
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Thanks for This, souhnds interesting.
Which time are you using? Pre-spellplague?
And, can you give a link to the map, or is it not ready yet.
Additionally, I am preparing a "sourcebook" for my campaign world, including over 100 Goblin, Hobgoblin and Bugbear Tribes, clans and warbands in the stonelands.
If you are interested I share voluntarily. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2012 : 16:19:20
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My map isn't ready yet - I haven't even started placing locales (hopefully today - still tweaking the desert).
THIS is the FRIA map of the area. I won't be placing Araugul quite so north, and my Stonelands extends further west, as does my Goblin Marches. I was told by the FR designer who was responsible for most of the placements on that map not to go by that map for most things - everything is a little off (and the Goblin Marches/Stonelands are really off... but I am still awaiting a reply from Ed). Thus, I assume that that icon for Araugul really means "somewhere around here".
This Map is a WIP of the Western Heartlands I am working on. The finished one will extend slightly more south and east, and quite a bit more west (so Tuern will be on the map). It is a lot further along then that WIP at this time. After I place all the locales, I will then do the Eastern Heartlands. There will be some overlap, so Cormyr can be seen in its entirety on one map (one thing I really hate about the FRIA maps).
You can see how I reshaped some of the region around the western end of the Goblin Marches, so the Gorge is now the only way out of the Marches (small parties can find other, harder routes through the hills or down the cliff-face). The Well of Dragons will go on the top of the northern cliff right where it should be (its a ancient caldera, so my assumption is the entire plateau of the Goblin Marches is part of the defunct, primordial super-volcano). You can see the Plateau better on this map of Cormyr (the rest of that map is based upon the old 3e layout, which is the major thing I am 'correcting'). If you read the history of the Goblin Marches (and how the battle was fought at the Battle of Bones to the north) it makes little sense they would have used the Gorge as depicted on that map. I connected the two plateaus seen there together and used one wall of that for the northern cliff-face of the Gorge (the mountains to the south creating the other cliff-face). I also extended the river a bit east to explain the Gorge itself.
Good map-making isn't just drawing, its knowing about the climate, history, geology and even physics of a region. I have to take everything into account, and create something that works in a logical way. This is why I ask Ed so many questions about specific events. I don't just need to know what is there now, I have to know what was there a century ago, a millenia ago, and even 35,000 years ago. This is why many of the 'historic' FR maps are so terribly inaccurate.
quote:
Originally posted by Jakuta Khan
Which time are you using? Pre-spellplague?
I consider my latest project a 'corrected' replacement for the 3e campaign map, which means it is accurate as of 1372 DR. However, I used the 1e/2e layout for the geography (so it is backwards-compatible, unlike the official 3e map), and I also use any 4e locale that would have existed in the 3e era (there are several).
*Grammar correction |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 06 Oct 2012 18:28:32 |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2012 : 18:06:42
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| Thanks for the reply, love the maps ;) |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 10:36:50
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just a thought, does it only seem to me, or is in the cormyr map u gave in your comment, the skull gorge much bigger than in the 3e books?
longer than 100 miles???
thx for short reply. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2013 : 13:38:43
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Minor scroll resurrection
Ooh, ooh, just been doing a bit of stonelands information collecting and found stuff in Elminster's Ecologies about the goblinkin and Hlundadim.
Very exciting stuff.
In the booklet it states that Hlundadim was a powerful sorcerous being from another plane.
And i have been trying to figure out who/what he may be.
Now reading this thread i have an idea thanks to Markustay's bit about the creator races which i completely forgot.
Sarrukh were very active in this region long, long, long ago. I'm sure i read in Serpent Kingdoms that a band of Sarrukh fled to the Planes and accidentally ignited a war with the demonic Khaasta, so we know they travelled to other planes.
Even better the Sarrukh liches of Oreme have periods of stasis hibernation and at least one of their number (The Terraseer) meddled in the history of Netheril a thousand years ago or more.
Now i'm not suggesting that the Terraseer meddled with the goblinkin as well (that would be counter productive) given that those goblinkin overran Anauria. What if a rival lich king of Oreme was working against the Terraseer (as a pet project/friendly rivalry) and influenced the development of the goblinkin in a similar way.
It explains the sudden development of the goblinkin in a similar way to what happened with Netheril. It ties in nicely with the destruction of the successor state of Netheril, and it also explains Hlundadim's sudden disappearance. He went back into stasis once his period of kingship over Oreme was over.
This also means that he will probably awaken soon (ignoring 4e - which i do). I'm pretty sure i read in the Shadowdale>Cormyr>Anauroch tearing of the weave adventure path that the Terraseer was currently partway through his rule and the players can visit him for lore about Netheril.
If Hlundadim was responsible for Anauria's destruction then his period of kingship must be soon after the Terraseer, and he disappeared just as the desert of Anauroch expanded.
It's quite possible they have had several stasis/awakening periods. Maybe Hlundadim came back in time for the Battle of the Bones.
What if the Terraseer's big plan and indeed all the kings of Oreme were just looking to influence external nations to destroy the Phaerimm (and failed everytime), but as with most evil beings didnt go about it in a concerted manner and often worked against one another.
Anyway ramblings over. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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redmaylily
Acolyte
China
2 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2013 : 04:21:55
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| In Elminster's Ecologies mention that "The goblinoids were based in a huge fortress called Araugul, or Goblin Mount, constructed in the center of what is now the Goblin Marches. " |
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Araugul, the goblin Mount
