Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Products
 Forgotten Realms Novels
 Elminster, Gandalf or Dumbledore?
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author  Topic Next Topic
Page: of 4

Owesstaer
Seeker

Luxembourg
30 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2016 :  16:09:54  Show Profile Send Owesstaer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Another vote for El from myself.

In addition to being a pawn, he has retained a human personality... and he's got the Symbul! ;)
Go to Top of Page

BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe

Greece
581 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2016 :  21:41:59  Show Profile  Visit BARDOBARBAROS's Homepage Send BARDOBARBAROS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Elminster

BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!


"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2)
Go to Top of Page

maltor ramus
Acolyte

Canada
12 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2016 :  05:40:55  Show Profile Send maltor ramus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Elminster as my vote is not only powerful & cunning, but he's able to date a goddess and in my book that makes him the strongest of them all lol:)
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
33624 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2016 :  18:07:37  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

First - how did Dumbledore even make the list? He was not very powerful and in the end was dead.


He was one of the most powerful wizards in the Potterverse.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5089 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2016 :  18:43:47  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Choosing not to extend ones life indefinitely does not determine the level of power an individual holds.
Dumbledore appeared to me to be a very wise and learned individual with an insatiable curiosity for all things magical (including history and creatures of which was different from his colleagues). Whether this translated into raw magical power is unknown because the books never detailed any of his magic without him having the elder wand which admittedly he won from grindelwald but their relationship may have predetermined the outcome.

Power seems an odd thing to measure a wizard against when gandalf appears to have been a middling wizard but achieved great world changing things by virtue of his knowledge and skill reading/predicting people and their reactions often many years into the future (perhaps aided by some kind of foresight ability, perhaps not).

Dumbledore was of the same type as gandalf. He predicted and manipulated the actions of everyone he came into contact with (not necessarily with evil intent, sometimes people were manipulated merely into achieving their potential). He also made sure to know all he could about magic, both good and bad, which helped him greatly in fighting voldemort.

Elminster I don't know about because I've never read the novels. He seems both less and more wise (acting rashly and yet able to outwit all his foes).

Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions Candlekeep Archive
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 1
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 2
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 3
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 4
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 5
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 6
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 7
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 8
Forgotten Realms Alternate Dimensions: Issue 9

Alternate Realms Site
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
33624 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2016 :  22:29:48  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Of the three of them, Dumbledore is the only pure mortal. Elminster is of course a Chosen, and Gandalf was one of the Maiar -- a kind of spirit, sent down by the kinda-sorta-deities of Middle-Earth.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Sunderstone
Learned Scribe

91 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2019 :  19:45:23  Show Profile Send Sunderstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Of the three of them, Dumbledore is the only pure mortal. Elminster is of course a Chosen, and Gandalf was one of the Maiar -- a kind of spirit, sent down by the kinda-sorta-deities of Middle-Earth.



I went with Gandalf. In Potterverse, I actually like Aberforth better what little we get and in the Realms, Khelban is my favorite.
Go to Top of Page

Nilus Reynard
Learned Scribe

Canada
137 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2019 :  07:22:01  Show Profile Send Nilus Reynard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Definitely Elminster.

He has the feel of a very well learned grandfather. One that can be a terror to deal with it angry, but one that will always have your back in the end.

Nilus Reynard
Doom Master of Beshaba, Hand of Despair.
P24 Hm CN
(2nd Edition AD&D)
Go to Top of Page

cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1189 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2020 :  21:53:43  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know this is complete heresy here, but Dumbledore.

Not because of power, etc.

He just comes across more as that age old wizard from the books and movies. Elminster has a more playful personality in some ways, that is fantastic (don't get me wrong), but doesn't hit me the same.

This in no way means I do not love Elminster to death! He is awesome!!!!!!!!

Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
Go to Top of Page

ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
128 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2020 :  11:34:12  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmmm,
Gandalf is in a low magic world compared to FR or Potterverse.
Gandalf is a seemingly low ranking Angel.
Elminster is semi-devine (Chosen) in a high (VERY high) magic world.
Dumbledore seems to be very powerful,,, however the ease of his assassination/murder somehow belies that, IMO.
Dumbledore is in a world that has no religion, or at least very little. Therefore he does not seem to have any Divine capabilities.

So, Dumbledore is ruled out because of no divine powers.
Gandalf is in a low-magic world, and it shows in his limited ability to directly affect Middle-Earth (he usually has to get others to do the dirty work).
Elminster "wins", (if you want to call it that) because he is ridiculously over-powered in a high magic world.

Disclaimer: The above thoughts on Dumbledore are based on the movies. The books are simply unreadable for adults(at least this one).
Go to Top of Page

Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore

1017 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2020 :  20:01:15  Show Profile Send Copper Elven Vampire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gandalf is a Maiar Spirit, so basically a cloaked demi-god in FR status. Oloron, the wise one. He had the ring of fire, given secretly to him upon his arrival to Beleriand/ Middle-Earth by Ciridan the Shipwright or something like that.

I still wonder... The tales of the Noldor elves say that that last remaining son of Feanor still walks the coastline of western middle-Earth seeking to make penance for his atrocities. Maglor The Mighty singer is his name. He threw the last remaining Silmaril into the sea in agony and shame.

I go with Gandalf.
Go to Top of Page

ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
128 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2020 :  19:38:33  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gandalf is certainly an acceptable choice. He's the only one of the three that is innately Divine.
Go to Top of Page

Shawn Daniels
Learned Scribe

79 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2020 :  02:42:14  Show Profile Send Shawn Daniels a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I VERY MUCH want to choose Gandalf, but Elminster does far surpass him in power and I am superior my obsessed with the Realms atm, so...

Those who destroy knowledge, with ink, fire, or sword, are themselves destroyed.
Go to Top of Page

LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1194 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2020 :  03:11:27  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why is Gandalf here? He's an angel clad in mortal flesh on a divine mission. The actual wizards here are Dumbledore and Elminster.

In which case, Elminster. Dumbledore is a blithering incompetent who only wins out because Voldemort was a moron. We see Dumbledore's brilliance in trusting Snape with handling Draco Malfoy during sixth year, except for the part where Malfoy was doing the equivalent of firing a loaded gun in a crowded room while trying to kill Dumbledore while Snape flaps his hands ineffectually.

Though, in terms of character, Gandalf by a mile.

Edited by - LordofBones on 07 Apr 2020 03:15:58
Go to Top of Page

AliMaClan
Acolyte

Canada
9 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2020 :  11:48:28  Show Profile Send AliMaClan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As a relative newcomer to the realms, I have only read a few books with Elminster as a main character. It is 35 years since I read LOTR and a long time since I read H.P. Nevertheless I’ll throw in my two cents, I’m going to say Dumbledore with Elminster as a close second. (This may change when I have read some more FR.) My main reason is that the question is “ who do you like more” (not who is the most powerful wizard) and I suspect that were I to meet any in “real” life I might find him the most charismatic. Largely on account of the fact that he is portrayed as being very kind and not self aggrandizing despite his power. I suppose the question “who do you like more” hinges on which characteristics you find to be more valuable. Kindness, humour, and modesty would be more important than power, smarts, and status for me.

Exiled from the realms for 35 years on a quest for the lost chord. I return empty handed to resume my studies...

Edited by - AliMaClan on 10 Jul 2020 11:50:01
Go to Top of Page

Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3936 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2020 :  17:08:00  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, no Merlin???

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
33624 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2020 :  17:54:52  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

So, no Merlin???



I don't know that we can really include him, here, because then there is the question of "Which Merlin?" He's been on TV shows, in movies, in countless books and comics... You could easily have people argue Merlin A vs. Merlin B vs. Merlin G.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7101 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2020 :  00:08:46  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd prefer Gandalf.

Gandalf's general appearance and persona were pioneering influences for the "traditional" wizard archetype we all know. Elminster and Dumbledore are mere followers in this regard.

Some people have argued that Gandalf didn't actually use much magic or that he only cast wimpy low-level sorts of spells.
I would argue that this is exactly what makes him compelling - he relies on magic only when there is no other recourse, and he allows (even requires) others to rely on their own abilities instead of meddling with whatever gimmicks he's got ready in his spellbook.

(Although [url=https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dc/ee/b0/dceeb097f1011ef5e97ea7aad929cec8.jpg]evil skullcap Merlin[/url] does have great style!)

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 11 Jul 2020 00:11:35
Go to Top of Page

The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2169 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2020 :  02:56:17  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Power wise, obviously Gandalf, he's basically a demigod, or angel if you prefer. His immortality alone wins this one.

Character wise, I'd say El wins, but that's just because I like a little smart-assiness.

Dumbledore is pretty much the least interesting wizard ever written. In all 7 books he is bumbling around and a 10 year old is doing all the things he should be dealing with. We learn he pretty much pimped out his sister to get his kick ass wand which is where all his power comes from. His MO is let all the peons fight and die while I dick around with my memories and even get myself killed because I have no self control.
Go to Top of Page

The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2169 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2020 :  03:09:49  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

I'd prefer Gandalf.

Gandalf's general appearance and persona were pioneering influences for the "traditional" wizard archetype we all know. Elminster and Dumbledore are mere followers in this regard.

Some people have argued that Gandalf didn't actually use much magic or that he only cast wimpy low-level sorts of spells.
I would argue that this is exactly what makes him compelling - he relies on magic only when there is no other recourse, and he allows (even requires) others to rely on their own abilities instead of meddling with whatever gimmicks he's got ready in his spellbook.

(Although [url=https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dc/ee/b0/dceeb097f1011ef5e97ea7aad929cec8.jpg]evil skullcap Merlin[/url] does have great style!)



They are wrong though. He doesn't make a false dawn, he makes a REAL dawn. The only spells in D&D that can do that are Alternate Reality, Wish and MAYBE limited wish if you have a nice DM.

In Moria he basically did an earthquake spell.

He does something like a chain lightning with the goblins in the hobbit - or maybe a meteor swarm but there is only a flash visible so probably the former.

I'd say his bolts that he uses on the balrog and ring wraiths are most like the bolt of positive energy from greyhawk magic.

Then there is his strongest magic, which everyone always forgets, but I would liken most to the Eva1iir'Enevahr elven high magic. He inspires the world to fight for a thousand years against an enemy they have no real hope of defeating. He is basically hope and inspiration wandering around on two legs.

I would suggest that most of his magic could be viewed as High Magic. Sometimes the effects are simple, but they are perfect.

Edited by - The Masked Mage on 11 Jul 2020 03:25:53
Go to Top of Page

The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2169 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2020 :  03:22:36  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Dumbledore was of the same type as gandalf. He predicted and manipulated the actions of everyone he came into contact with (not necessarily with evil intent, sometimes people were manipulated merely into achieving their potential). He also made sure to know all he could about magic, both good and bad, which helped him greatly in fighting voldemort.



He doesn't though. He pretty much messed up every "manipulation" he tried - and even says so twice. Even if he was too weak to go fight off Voldemort, he could have at least taught Harry Potter some useful magic. Hermione teaches Harry more than Dumbldink ever did.

If it were not for Harry's wand and special connection to Voldemort, he would have died in book 4 because Dumbledore figured he'd just watch and let the evil wizard do whatever they want. One finite incatatum and make-believe-mad-eye is toast and Voldemort doesn't get his new body.

Then in book 7 we get like 300 extra pages of Harry wandering around trying to learn all the things Dumbledore could have told him when he was ten. Deathly Hallows are real, this is what they are, you have one, I have one, and there is this stone too. How hard is that? The list of times he would have fixed things by just telling people what they should know (you know - like a professor) is huge.
Go to Top of Page

AliMaClan
Acolyte

Canada
9 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2020 :  20:02:31  Show Profile Send AliMaClan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
“The list of times he would have fixed things by just telling people what they should know (you know - like a professor) is huge.“
I haven’t read enough Elminster to say for sure but it seems to me that this criticism could be levelled at almost any wizard I have ever read (except perhaps Rincewind...).
It seems to go with the territory!

Exiled from the realms for 35 years on a quest for the lost chord. I return empty handed to resume my studies...
Go to Top of Page

Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7101 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2020 :  20:49:08  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
(For the record, Rincewind is a Wizzard, not a Wizard. There are important differences.)

[/Ayrik]
Go to Top of Page

AliMaClan
Acolyte

Canada
9 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2020 :  22:07:35  Show Profile Send AliMaClan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
LOL - I stand corrected

Exiled from the realms for 35 years on a quest for the lost chord. I return empty handed to resume my studies...
Go to Top of Page

Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3134 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2020 :  22:41:13  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Everytime I see this scroll pop up, I keep thinking it's a Kiss/Marry/Kill situation...

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs

Edited by - Ashe Ravenheart on 11 Jul 2020 22:41:29
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 4  Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2020 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000