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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 19 Nov 2013 :  19:17:14  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
...Or at least that something bad was coming; perhaps nothing specific.

Which once more begs the question of how it could have happened, with mortals and deities knowing something was up...

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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2013 :  03:48:58  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The extent of the mortal knowledge seems to be that they were inspired through divine guidance to take action, without having any real knowledge of the Spellplague.

As for divine senses, I don't see it as being purely linear. Even if it is, it would seem Tymora was in no position to do anything about it or perhaps preferred not to.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Demzer
Senior Scribe

530 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2013 :  09:32:54  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Even if it is, it would seem Tymora was in no position to do anything about it or perhaps preferred not to.



Nonsense!

She could've blessed Mystra beforehand:

Cyric: "I use Evil Plot Hammer of Doom against Mystra"
Ao: "Ok. Mystra, roll a fortitude save against DC 999"
Mystra: "Wha??"
Tymora whispers somethings in Ao's hear
Ao: "Ok, no need. Natural 20! Mystra, you save!"
Mystra: "AH! Now it's my turn SUCKER!"
Cyric: "What the f---???!?"
Shar: "Uhm ... yes, I ... go somewhere in the Astral searching for the shadevari, yeah, i do that, cya Cyric"
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13268 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2013 :  13:21:46  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo

Though I wonder which was the typo 'in 1358 DR' or 'with the Spellplague about to erupt'. Considering later dates given in the article it could be a confusion between the Spellplague and the Era of Upheaval.
I haven't read the article - I've fallen behind with them (real busy RW).

However, from what I've gathered from the 5e discussions, 'The Sundering' has been an on-going event, from the time of the ToT to a few after the 4e 1479DR start date (at the very least - it could have had its roots MUCH further back, and continue significantly forward). That means both the ToT and the Sellplague were just events within a greater, on-going event, and I think when Ed references stuff in that manner, he's probably talking about the greater overall event, but simply couching it in terns we are more likely to recognize.

So, in other words, just because we knew about the Spellplage as something that occurred between the death of Mystra (which one? ) and some time at the beginning of 4e, we don't have an exact start date for the greater event, and since the ToT seems to be the triggering event for the Spellplague itself, then I don't really see the earlier dates being applied to the Spellplague term a big problem. Think of 1358 DR as the 'prologue' to the rest of the story... a story which hasn't been finished yet.

EDIT:
Seriously - just how different was the ToT and the first death of Mystra from the second death of Mystra? The magical chaos seems about the same, it's just that it lasted longer (so the degradation got SO mush worse), and the powers that may have still been 'holding it all together' (Ao, Helm, the Chosen, maybe even Lurue, etc) during the ToT couldn't after her 'second death' (for whatever reason - that story still remains unfinished as well).

Like I said, I am starting to see the whole enchilada - 1e/2e/3e and on into 4e as one, big, RSE that has been 'many milenia in the making'. 'Spellplague' is like 'magical chaos' - its just a mortal term for the havoc caused by these cosmological events. The published Realms was just us getting a zoomed-in view of a small slice of Torillian history - we need to step back and see the bigger picture, me thinks.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 20 Nov 2013 15:14:46
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
29723 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2013 :  16:39:36  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay


EDIT:
Seriously - just how different was the ToT and the first death of Mystra from the second death of Mystra? The magical chaos seems about the same, it's just that it lasted longer (so the degradation got SO mush worse), and the powers that may have still been 'holding it all together' (Ao, Helm, the Chosen, maybe even Lurue, etc) during the ToT couldn't after her 'second death' (for whatever reason - that story still remains unfinished as well).



Well, we didn't get planar rearrangement and continental swaps during the Time of Troubles. Halruaa didn't blow up during the ToT, mages didn't go crazy, people didn't develop spellscars... Etc. The scope of changes caused by the Spellplague far exceeded the scope of changes caused by the ToT, by orders of magnitude.

It's like comparing that meteor that hit Russia last year to the one that hit Krynn and caused the Cataclysm, though I'd argue that the scope of the difference with the ToT and the Spellplague still exceeds that.

All that said, this really isn't the best thread for that discussion, and I'm wishing I'd held my tongue -- I didn't mean to initiate a tangent, and I'm trying to avoid debating the Spellplague. I know this isn't a debate; just saying that of late, I find it better to keep quiet, as opposed to getting into another debate.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13268 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2013 :  00:49:29  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, the point I was trying to make (which always seems to get lost in my rambling) is that the difference between the ToT and the spellplague was just severity.

Suppose we've had two nuclear reactors with a problem - we could even use the RW Three Mile Island and Chernobyl incidents. Same thing - nuclear reactor getting all scary-critical. Difference is, three Mile Island was contained and turned out fine. Chernoyl, on the other hand, went all Doomsday on everything.

So the Spellplague was ''magical chaos' when all the fail-safes and stop-gap measures have failed, and the world went to hell in handbag. It doesn't make it different from the ToT, except that it reached 'critical mass'. Think of it like the difference between snapping a magical wand in half, and snapping a Staff of the Magi in half.

Anyhow, it doesn't make me like any of it any better, its just my way of looking at things now, with all this talk of a 'Sundering'. I guess we'll see soon enough.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2013 :  01:58:49  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Markus that's an astute observation. I like it.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe

USA
304 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2013 :  04:01:49  Show Profile Send Tarlyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
ToT changes were relatively minor and easy to ignore if it wasn't your cup of tea. Second edition published support for all of the dead gods including specialty priests. ToT changed the pantheon and left the geo politics and NPCs alone.

Spell plague changed far more than just a handful of deities and no official support was given to those deities. Spell plague refined half the world and remove any traces of realms having unique systems of magic. The new setting material did not cover existing famous spells, magic items and organizations. Also, it virtually wiped out all of the famous NPCs and organizations. The worst part of the whole mess(IMO) is none of that was replaced in the new era. The setting got a more or less clean slate and there was no further attempt to develop it. The few remaining NPCs from the prior editions still are the only truly noteworthy movers and shakers. Multiple human generations went by in Realmslore and not a single character stood up and moved into any of those existing power vacuums. I could go on, but I have stated most of this stuff elsewhere.




Tarlyn Embersun
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2013 :  09:53:47  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I realize some people will never like the post-Spellplague Realms, but treating it as though the setting never advanced past Day 1 of that era is getting tiresome.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).

Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 24 Nov 2013 13:13:31
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29723 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2013 :  13:43:05  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And it's really beyond the scope of this particular topic. Had I known what would result from my aside, I'd've held my tongue.

Any further Spellplague/edition commentary should really go into a thread dedicated to that discussion.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
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Posted - 26 Nov 2013 :  05:28:49  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ed presents a rather curious offering in this week's "Forging the Realms" with The Gem in the Wall.

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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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29723 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2013 :  05:40:31  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dang it, I just checked the WotC site like half an hour ago!

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4745 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2013 :  07:05:21  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I liked this. Any Netheril lore is always welcome.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13268 Posts

Posted - 26 Nov 2013 :  14:30:00  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am falling further and further behind with these.

Been so damn busy lately... guess I can play catch-up over the holidays.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Dang it, I just checked the WotC site like half an hour ago!

Sage has probably set something up where he gets 'pinged' on his smartphone whenever something is posted in that section.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2013 :  02:39:15  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I am falling further and further behind with these.

Been so damn busy lately... guess I can play catch-up over the holidays.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Dang it, I just checked the WotC site like half an hour ago!

Sage has probably set something up where he gets 'pinged' on his smartphone whenever something is posted in that section.

Very close to the truth. I've a routine in SageOS prompting me with an alert every day at a particular time to remind me to check the Wizards site for new article updates. It automatically opens the web-page at the specified date and time.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1944 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2013 :  02:46:14  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Who takes the time to reprogram their smartphone? It's a miracle it works at all. No wonder your always late for something.

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 04 Dec 2013 :  11:20:03  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In a blatant disregard for the fact that Sage will repost the link , I present Ed's latest "Forging the Realms" article:- The Teleporting Oddity.

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The Sage
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Posted - 04 Dec 2013 :  15:03:26  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

In a blatant disregard for the fact that Sage will repost the link , I present Ed's latest "Forging the Realms" article:- The Teleporting Oddity.
I was ready to post it, actually, but Wizards delayed the release of the article. So the alert I normally received directed me to a non-existent link.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
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Posted - 04 Dec 2013 :  15:03:56  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In this week's article, Ed's presents The Teleporting Oddity.

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 04 Dec 2013 :  17:46:20  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

In this week's article, Ed's presents The Teleporting Oddity.



I wish someone had shared that link earlier! Oh, wait...

(Didja notice I copied your text from your last repost? )

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Alruane
Senior Scribe

USA
434 Posts

Posted - 04 Dec 2013 :  17:48:03  Show Profile Send Alruane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, you Wooly haha

" I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"
~Joneleth Irenicus

"Wisdom? My dear boy, wisdom is knowing that you do not know everything. Wisdom is realizing, a wise man ALWAYS has questions. Not answer."

~Alruane
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Posted - 05 Dec 2013 :  02:48:18  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

In this week's article, Ed's presents The Teleporting Oddity.



I wish someone had shared that link earlier! Oh, wait...

(Didja notice I copied your text from your last repost? )

My replies are often habit-forming.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
29723 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  05:07:39  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And once more, the Sage is beat to the punch! We'll see this link twice, but here goes the first listing of it!

Jarasson, Founder of Guilds

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  07:03:33  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is the proper and as-close-to-Candlekeep-official link for the latest "Forging the Forgotten Realms" article by Ed Greenwood:- Jarasson, Founder of Guilds.

It's the ONLY link you'll need this week for the column.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage

Edited by - The Sage on 10 Dec 2013 07:04:13
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Demzer
Senior Scribe

530 Posts

Posted - 10 Dec 2013 :  11:19:10  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's funny and interesting that Dragon 429's Eye on the Realms article presents us with a young and enterprising shady merchant-prince while this Forging the Realms article showcases the work and care of an old wolf in establishing profitable avenues of income.

This article even has a direct reference to the Eye on the Realms one (Jarasson thougts on shortages), kind of like presenting two faces of the same coin.
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