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jimmyjimjam
Acolyte
USA
6 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Sep 2012 : 23:45:37
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Does anyone know/has anyone read anything about banking in the different regions of Faerun? Thanks!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 01:25:30
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There are merchant companies, enterprises and trading costers, that people in the Realms use to invest their money in, as well as agents who handle the investments and manage the financial transactions. There are people who will hide and/or protect your money, for a fee of course, and there are rentable storage spaces in various cities and other locales, as well as moneylenders and money-changers.
There are locales described in The Night Parade which function like "cache-houses"... existing as businesses equipped with what can only be assumed to be safe deposit boxes.
Ed's noted a rather integrated "bank" and "moneychanging" system at work in Delzimmer. See his Elminster Speaks articles at WotC.
As well, Waukeenar do, in fact, tend to run some of their temples as "moneylending" locales... within large cities across the Realms. |
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 06:37:27
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I just borrowed the banking system from Harry Potter, but call those Gringot creatures gnomes instead (so thats what my version of gnomes look like, which is closer to folkore).
I have no idea what sort of canon banking system exists, aside from 'trade notes' which are redeemable at trading costers (they are sort of FR versions of 'traveler's checks'). I forget where I heard about those - it may have been in Ed's thread.
Warehouse also store treasure, for a percentage of the value, or for a flat rate, depending upon the deal you strike. As far as I know, no-one gives interest. Money-lenders abound (just as in our own past), and they charge what interest rates they can get away with.
Ergo, many of the services provided by our RW banks are provided by several different businesses in FR.
I also recall something about Waukeen's church... don't remember the precise details. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 06 Sep 2012 06:40:35 |
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 18:14:06
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This won't help if you need examples ASAP, but there is a scene in Lesser Evils which features a character accessing a private "safehold" from a moneylender, based on lore from Ed.
(In Waterdeep, I should add) |
www.slushlush.com |
Edited by - ErinMEvans on 06 Sep 2012 18:21:57 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 20:24:26
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You know this topic just tickled me thinking about games like EQ2 where you shove physical objects in the bank in one part of the world... then go to another portion of the world, walk up to the bank and THERE'S YOUR ITEM. I absolutely understand why they do it, but then you turn to a real RPG and have to consider basics like "how do I prove I'm myself" and "how do they keep my stuff from being taken" in other cultures.
By the way, ever want to make the party lose some stuff... let the bank get robbed.
Want to teach the party a lesson about breaking the law? Next time they're stupid and decide they want to rob the bank... let them. Then have the NPC's who had stuff in the bank find out who they are. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2012 : 20:55:10
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In my own D&D-erized version of Gringots, I have it where the items are actually stored in an extra-dimensionsal space, which can be accessed from several different locations. Hence, a somewhat logical explanation of the MORP banking system.
The Church of Waukeen can easily replace Gringots - they could function like the Knights Templar (which did offer banking services) and use a type of 'trade note' to take cash out at other locations, or in the manner I just described, using a pocket-plane.
Then you have guys like Elmisnster, who are able to change the parameters of portals and gates, who would be able to create their own 'backdoor' into such a location and take what they want (without setting off any of the spells). Fortunately, there aren't that many 'Elminster caliber' mages around. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 01:57:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I just borrowed the banking system from Harry Potter, but call those Gringot creatures gnomes instead (so thats what my version of gnomes look like, which is closer to folkore).
I think this hardly applies to FR, where magic is rather too prevalent. When you make a bank KNOWN to all to cater to all sorts of clients, you also invite all sorts of avaricious men who'd stop at nothing to steal every bar of gold in your bank. "What magic creates, magic can undo." |
Every beginning has an end. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 07:44:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
In my own D&D-erized version of Gringots, I have it where the items are actually stored in an extra-dimensionsal space, which can be accessed from several different locations. Hence, a somewhat logical explanation of the MORP banking system.
The Church of Waukeen can easily replace Gringots - they could function like the Knights Templar (which did offer banking services) and use a type of 'trade note' to take cash out at other locations, or in the manner I just described, using a pocket-plane.
The second you introduce this extra-dimensional space into the system, you've just created a much less dangerous than caravans means to transfer goods all over Toril. Be wary what you introduce. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 10:43:26
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| I had wondered about this myself, as the level of mercantile activity seen in the Realms should not be possible without a dependable banking system. I like Markustays idea of a Harry Potter like banking system utilizing the Church of Waukeen as a replacement for Gringots. |
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Captain Grafalcon
Learned Scribe
Brazil
129 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2012 : 20:50:29
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| Accordingly to Volo“s Guide to the Sword Coast, Lady Alyth, owner of the Elfsong tavern in Baldur“s gate, runs an unofficial bank. Most clients are patrons and sailors. |
"Surely you recognize that armies carrying banners are almost always thievesuntil they win."
Jarlaxle, mercenary leader of Bregan D'aerthe. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2012 : 21:12:04
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First, the extra-dimensional space can only be accessed by the owner of the account, so no-one can rob you (at least not easilly - easier to just wait for someone to take-out what you want and then steal it from them).
Second, it can only be used for coin and magical items. I assume at one point gems were also allowed, but folks were doing precisely what you said, and were using it to trade in regions where the gems could fetch more money. Now there is a 'net value' attached to the gems, and you can trade them in for a fair price and have that coin available for removal at other locations (you no longer own the gems).
The reason for this is simple - its run by the church of Waukeen; why would they do anything to interfere with trade? Of course, there may be a few work-arounds (like placing a dweomer on gems), but thats part of the fun. Nothing should be fool-proof; there is no such thing (both RW and in a fantasy setting).
If someone wanted to bypass the hazards of trade, just learn the spell teleport. Why do you think all wizards are fabulously wealthy? My banking system doesn't do anything that someone couldn't already do - it just makes it easy on the Players. I've yet to run into a problem with it, but I suppose it could be fine-tuned (so that you have to request your items ahead of time, and pay extra for that service on the far end).
EDIT: And as of right now, I am only picturing three locations - Suzail, Silvermoon, and Waterdeep (the system is being tested). Money-only should be available at any church of Waukeen (since they don't actually transfer the coin itself - its done with 'promissory notes', or some-such). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Sep 2012 21:18:28 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2012 : 02:00:35
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It's an only-recently revealed aspect of Ed's Realms that gates/portals (and I'm guessing by extension - some extra-dimensional spaces) have a disturbing habit of "losing" inanimate matter that goes through or is placed in them. That's the reason why portal networks didn't replace standard merchant caravans and peddlers centuries ago, and likely why extra-dimensional "banks" aren't the standard model either.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2012 : 02:38:38
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So now we know where Elminster gets all those 'toys' he likes to hide in ruins.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2012 : 03:13:31
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
It's an only-recently revealed aspect of Ed's Realms that gates/portals (and I'm guessing by extension - some extra-dimensional spaces) have a disturbing habit of "losing" inanimate matter that goes through or is placed in them. That's the reason why portal networks didn't replace standard merchant caravans and peddlers centuries ago, and likely why extra-dimensional "banks" aren't the standard model either.
-- George Krashos
In my campaigns, at least, the volume of traffic has a lot to do with how frequent problems with the portals are and most modern enchantments fray* relatively quickly if the traffic is heavy and frequent.
Because otherwise, well, unless we're talking more than half of the matter passing through being lost, portals would be the only economically viable method of long-distance trade anyway. Remember that a 30 mile trip on an ox-wagon is as expensive as the wagonload of typical acricultural produce, so at 31 mile and longer trips, eventually the portal is going to pay for itself even if it 'loses' half of what passes through.
*With unpredictable, but nearly always unpleasant, results. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2012 : 03:16:24
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As for banking, in specific, I have temples of Waukeen (and elsewhere, sometimes other gods), being willing to issue 'trade notes' and send information about them to other temples by magical means, so they are redeemable at other temples of the faith.
They'll also store money, lend it out and so on. |
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Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2012 : 04:04:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
In my campaigns, at least, the volume of traffic has a lot to do with how frequent problems with the portals are and most modern enchantments fray* relatively quickly if the traffic is heavy and frequent.
Because otherwise, well, unless we're talking more than half of the matter passing through being lost, portals would be the only economically viable method of long-distance trade anyway. Remember that a 30 mile trip on an ox-wagon is as expensive as the wagonload of typical acricultural produce, so at 31 mile and longer trips, eventually the portal is going to pay for itself even if it 'loses' half of what passes through.
*With unpredictable, but nearly always unpleasant, results.
Indeed. It pains me a bit to ignore Ed's canon, but in this particular case, Icelander's approach makes far more sense, and that's the explanation I'm going to use. The same rationale would apply to extra-dimensional spaces (which are actually demiplanes in my conception of them).
I'd certainly have Waukeenars and other bankers be exceptionally apt at discerning people's identities and passing relevant information effectively and securely throughout the Realms. |
Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.
Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955
My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2012 : 06:52:19
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Icelander, I agree with you, but would like to point out one little thing.
Many, many individuals and organisations of the Realms, including notables such as Larloch, the Twisted Rune, the Zhentarim, the Red Wizards of Thay and no doubt a host of "lesser", more local power groups (and that's just the baddies - not the goodies or the greedy neutrals), understand the power and utility of any such portal network and seek to control/dominate same or destroy/sabotage them. Simply, no merchant coster in the Realms is going to be able to discover or create such a portal network and hold onto it for long.
It doesn't matter that your portal network between Suzail and Waterdeep will "pay for itself" in less than half a year if you are a smoking pile of ash at Manshoon's feet a tenday or so after you guarantee next day delivery of a package to halfway around Faerūn.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2012 : 07:32:45
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If we are imagining how something would work within our games, then it works. Manshoon doesn't do anything we don't want him to (nor the Twisted Rune, or Red Wizards, etc, etc). I could just as easily question how dragons fly, or undead walk around, etc.
Why are all these power groups so lazy? They want to put absolutely no effort what-so-ever into building their own portal network (which should be simple enough with their resources), yet they'd be willing to put a monumental amount of effort into stealing someone else's?
Somethings ring a little hollow, there. If Larloch is so powerful, why can't he just build his own? It just doesn't add up. We are back to the comic-bookish "Lex Luthor is willing to spend 100 million dollars on tech to steal 1 million from a bank". To me, wizards trying to takeover other wizard's portals is like Dwarves trying to steal ore from orcs. Especially given the canon fact that they are so unreliable (which I don't think is exactly true - I think that joke I made above is closer to the truth - something/someone is taking all that stuff).
And if the banking system is backed-up by a church, who in their right mind steals from a god? If anything, the 'bad guys' have as much to gain from a functional banking system as do goody-goodies. Easy enough for a DM to just fiat everything - he controls the gods, even Ao. Just say anyone who tries to tamper with the system is instantly struck dead by a dozen gods. Or are gods not active in the Realms? {smirk} |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2012 : 12:54:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If we are imagining how something would work within our games, then it works.
Well, I guess that's the end of that discussion.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2012 : 13:19:32
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George, Markusday has a point, and it wasn't the first part of his post.
Unless there is some reason portals work less reliably than D&D rules would indicate, the first group to successfully build and maintain one for any amount of time would accumulate such an economic advantage over others that the Realms we know would become unrecognisable. The powers that be wouldn't remain the powers that be if their rivals were growing infinitely rich by means of undercutting all trade as it now exists.
As noted, unless there is a ridiculously low chance of inanimate mattter making it through portals at all, the risk of the occasional loss doesn't invalidate portals as super trade networks. After all, conventional shipping has losses and costs too and these are far more than 50% using historical methods of transporting food any distance.
It's one thing saying that all sorts of powerful people try to control portal trade networks. Of course they do. But the point is that the existence of conventional caravans and ships in the Realms means that so far, none of them have succeeded in a meaningful way, because as soon as one manages to do so, the wealth they'd gain would enable them to expand and dominate all other power groups that lack a portal network.
It's like modern industry. You can't have a world where it's known and it works without also having it transform the world. The benefits from using it are so huge that anyone who opts out will be outcompeted by those who don't.
So, in order for FR to be FR and not some magitech setting where no one travels otherwise than by portal, we need to postulate that there are real risks involved with using them to ship hundreds of tons of grain per day. And all FR sources support that supposition, since it is well known that portals sometimes fail, lose their attachment to the locations that they are supposed to link or are invaded by hordes of extraplanar creatures. It's just that the simplified D&D rules don't mention that in the write-ups for portals and how characters can make them*. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2012 : 13:24:53
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Portals not even required, teleportation would work, of course either portal or teleportation would need to be paid for.
I would think letters of credit would be a simple way to deal with things without use of magic. Temple to Noble to Wizard even a rouge can work as long is the agents each honor them.
Something like portal temple to temple clearly can work as well, however I would not see them being made for purpose of banking, rather made for ease of travel of the clerics from one location to another. Of course once made clearly could be used for transfer of supplies or banking transactions.
The down side of a portal of course would be a temple falling into hands of a foe, however ever portal should be guarded or at least warded to prevent others from having much success using them. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Banking in Faerun?
