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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 04:13:21
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Hail and well met,
Here's a blog post wherein I tried to capture the 4.5 hour event into a list/discussion of the secrets unveiled. Enjoy!
http://erikscottdebie.com/?p=507
Use this thread to discuss. I'm out for the evening, and I'll take questions starting tomorrow morning.
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 06:37:13
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Thank you very much for your comprehensive summary, Mr. de Bie. I wasn't able to get a good picture of what was said in that seminar until now.
I'll stop to say I think WotC seems to be taking the best approach it could to Forgotten Realms design. I'm quite happy for the setting, really, and this is coming from someone who strongly disliked pretty much every major event published in the last ten years or so. I really doubt I will be interested in the 15th-16th century Realms. I guess the Realms in my head is already so different from canon that it would be impossible to please me. But you've managed to pique my curiosity with the promise of edition- and time-neutral material. I can probably enjoy reading that kind of stuff, and mine them for ideas with more ease too.
Now some specific points and questions:
Regarding novels, do you know whether there's a possibility for novels to be set in the past? I understand the ones planned right now are going to be set in the present, which makes sense. But it would seem to me that the more personal, small-scale story approach would lend itself very well to novels about other eras.
About the shared-experience idea, I don't have much of an opinion yet. Is it going to be a matter of choosing between options a, b, c and d, where the one that gets more votes is canonized, or will the designers try to coalesce the individual experiences of gamers into something coherent? That would seem to be an awful lot of work.
What you said about the gods is interesting. I've always gone for a more mysterious outlook to them, but I was still bound by the idea that some of them are definitely dead, for example. I don't usually like the "unreliable lore" approach, but for gods, it might work best. Do you know if something similar is being planned for the cosmology?
Lastly, I really didn't expect the Progressive Themes bit. Done right, it can be a great thing.
Alright, it seems I asked plenty of questions. Thanks again for the information! The more I read, the more I wish I was able to attend, but living on another hemisphere really makes things difficult! |
Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.
Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955
My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 06:57:41
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Thanks Erik for taking the time to post this information. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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deserk
Learned Scribe
Norway
237 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 08:52:44
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I'm quite thankful to see that earlier time lines are apparently going to be supported, and also that earlier edition-based source books are going to be republished. :)
Though I wonder if the republished earlier edition source books will look exactly like the original versions? Or will they get something new, or some small refinements (and by that I mean, expanded information, or new factions or cultures concepts, that don't replace anything, but ADD), and perhaps new illustrations for the books? (the art shown so far of 5E Realms looks very, very good)
I'd definitely love to see more artwork of the quality presented in the 5E presentations, in the republished 1st, 2nd edition and 3.5 Realms books. |
Edited by - deserk on 22 Aug 2012 08:53:24 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 10:05:19
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I'll echo the others and thank you for taking the time to put this together. And I'm quite pleased about the direction the Realms are taking. I also like that canon won't establish anymore whether a deity is alive or not, allowing stories about their quest and followers to be told again, without the weight of a previously determined ultimate conclusion. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 22 Aug 2012 11:55:51 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3285 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 13:52:21
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Looks like I was really close with that "Sinister Six" remark.
Instead it's the "Sundering Six". I like that.
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding." Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 16:12:20
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My interest has been piqued by these tidbits surrounding Ao's reforging of the Tablets of Fate.
I'm keen to see exactly how and [fully] why they're being reforged and how this may affect the deities/primordials of Toril and Abeir respectively. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 16:20:42
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Let me field some questions here:
quote: Originally posted by Mapolq
Regarding novels, do you know whether there's a possibility for novels to be set in the past? I understand the ones planned right now are going to be set in the present, which makes sense. But it would seem to me that the more personal, small-scale story approach would lend itself very well to novels about other eras.
Yes, it's possible. Nothing is set in stone at this point, and the only novels announced are the Sundering novels and the ones already on WotC's product catalog. If stories set in the past are something you want to see, get on WotC's forums and advocate for it.
quote: Originally posted by Mapolq
About the shared-experience idea, I don't have much of an opinion yet. Is it going to be a matter of choosing between options a, b, c and d, where the one that gets more votes is canonized, or will the designers try to coalesce the individual experiences of gamers into something coherent? That would seem to be an awful lot of work.
I'm not sure exactly how it's going to be implemented, and WotC isn't either. It'll be similar, maybe, to how LFR was set up in the early stretch of 4e. I suspect official adventures will have a couple of significant decision points, and once those adventures have run their course, WotC will poll DMs who ran them and incorporate their parties' decisions.
quote: Originally posted by Mapolq
What you said about the gods is interesting. I've always gone for a more mysterious outlook to them, but I was still bound by the idea that some of them are definitely dead, for example. I don't usually like the "unreliable lore" approach, but for gods, it might work best. Do you know if something similar is being planned for the cosmology?
Well, you weren't really bound by it, but I see your point. I have no idea what cosmology we're going to see going forward, but I suspect it will be flexible in the same way. If for you the Great Wheel makes sense, then that's what you have. If you'd prefer the lower planes be somewhat less rigid and more of a primordial soup, then you've got the Elemental Chaos. You should do whatever makes sense in your campaign.
I have theorized before that ALL conceptions of the planes are TRUE . . . from a certain point of view. Travelers from different worlds, different cultures, and even different mindsets perceive the planes differently. It's much like the story of the blind men describing an elephant: one says it's long and snaky (he's touching the trunk), one that it wields sharp weapons (he's touching the tusks), one that it's huge and solid (he's touching the leg), etc. They're all perceiving the same elephant, but they have different perspectives that inform their judgment because they can't see the whole thing at once.
quote: Lastly, I really didn't expect the Progressive Themes bit. Done right, it can be a great thing.
I agree. That was a significant part of the conversation, and I hope it came across in a good way. The Realms has been and should remain a bastion of forward thinking fiction, wherein people are not bound up in the traditionalist fantasy (white, male, straight) that we often get. We need more women, more not-white people, and more people of varying sexualities. It does readers a disservice to pretend that the world is only made of straight white guys. I'm not saying every Realms novel should be that way, but on the whole the line should embrace diversity of background and perspective.
quote: Originally posted by deserk
Though I wonder if the republished earlier edition source books will look exactly like the original versions? Or will they get something new, or some small refinements (and by that I mean, expanded information, or new factions or cultures concepts, that don't replace anything, but ADD), and perhaps new illustrations for the books? (the art shown so far of 5E Realms looks very, very good)
I don't think "exactly like the originals" is on the table. A lot of those old books are plagued with typos and tiny bits of weirdness, which WotC is cleaning up to some extent. And expanded information is definitely possible. Ed talked about "director's cut" versions of classic sourcebooks and adventures, where some of the stuff that got cut originally ends up back in the book. This is particularly feasible when dealing with ebooks, since you don't have massive printing costs to consider.
I suspect we will have mostly the old art in the old sourcebooks, for the sake of nostalgia and maintaining the classics. To put it by way of analogy, you don't (shouldn't) go back to the work of Michelangelo and "fix it up" to reflect modern art sensibilities. It's classic and perfect the way it is. That said, I'm sure there will be lots of art in 5e, some of which will hearken back to classic stuff. I've been at least one artist on Deviantart (I think) who's made it a personal quest to revamp all the old art into new, extremely cool versions. I forget the name at the moment.
Don't quote me on that art angle, though. If WotC is sure exactly how they'll do it, they haven't said as yet.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 16:22:34
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Thanks for posting, Erik. I'm extremely pleased with the detail you gave. My home campaign has made a lot of similar changes, though the path we took to get there was very different. It makes me happy to see that source matierial will better lend itself to being adapted into the Realms I run. (less diety involvement, fewer big names breaking up the cosmos, etc.) |
- Delwa Aunglor I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
Edited by - Delwa on 22 Aug 2012 16:23:29 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 16:28:48
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quote: Originally posted by The Sage
My interest has been piqued by these tidbits surrounding Ao's reforging of the Tablets of Fate. I'm keen to see exactly how and [fully] why they're being reforged and how this may affect the deities/primordials of Toril and Abeir respectively.
The Tablets were part of the original Sundering, and remained in place as a sort of buffer to keep the worlds apart. Upon them was scripted divine reality as Ao's Sundering made it to function. The Tablets were the single link between the twinned worlds, because they contained the names of both gods and primordials upon them.
And I've speculated that just as some primordials were trapped in Toril (e.g. Istishia, Kossuth, Grumbar, Akadi, Magaera), so were some gods trapped in Abeir, but that's another story.
When the Tablets were destroyed in the Time of Troubles, it started the process of the worlds coming back together. Abeir and Toril started to crash together on that very day, but the process was slow from a mortal perspective--it took decades for anything but the smallest hints of the conjunction to be visible. But if you look at it, after the ToT, that's when we started to see things like genasi and more elemental beings popping up, created by influences from Abeir.
The process of the worlds crashing together was expedited in 1385 when the Weave of Magic collapsed. I theorize that the Weave was part of what kept the worlds apart, and without its lattice to support the separation, Abeir and Toril simply shifted back into their natural state: together.
AO is reforging the Tablets as part of a new Sundering, to put the worlds back apart. Whether AO has to create a new Weave to support it is unknown.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 16:48:49
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Wow. Erik, thank you for the very detailed accounting of the event. Wish I could have been there. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 17:00:38
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quote: Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Let me field some questions here:
quote: Originally posted by Mapolq Lastly, I really didn't expect the Progressive Themes bit. Done right, it can be a great thing.
I agree. That was a significant part of the conversation, and I hope it came across in a good way. The Realms has been and should remain a bastion of forward thinking fiction, wherein people are not bound up in the traditionalist fantasy (white, male, straight) that we often get. We need more women, more not-white people, and more people of varying sexualities. It does readers a disservice to pretend that the world is only made of straight white guys. I'm not saying every Realms novel should be that way, but on the whole the line should embrace diversity of background and perspective.
Cheers
Forgive my obvious snipping!
I think it came across well and im not going to say it wasn't significant, because it was. But we are talking like two questions and 10 minutes out of 4.5 hours. The other issues seemed massively more important to the realms future, to those at the seminar. A friend I discussed the whole panel with the following day, said to me "Oh no, they're worried about the deck chairs and the f'ing boat is still going down!" I did try to explain that I didn't think this was a primary focus, just something wotc is Aware of ans is addressing.
I have confidence wotc can handle it well, but it is a very slippery slope. I dont really see an end to people who want more vs. people wanting less, without going to Ed and asking for exact breakdown of races, sexuality, etc of the general realms popultaion and same statistics for those more likely to "have their story told". Then take that vs the real world and factor in what might alienate the fewest total fans. I am glad I do not have that job!
I have friends who get very heated on this issue, on both sides. It's almost the "third rail" of realms fiction at this point, if that topic comes up we all get zapped in the crossfire. I'm just trying to read a great story.....and I think you in Erik, have done a perticularly good job. But I have a few friends who say things like "damn he can write a good story, but why does it matter if that character is bi?" and a few friends who reading the same novel are like "damn it! why cant he just come out say that character is gay"
Hmm.. I just rambled on and not sure what my point was other than , to me your doing a great job. To a few, not so much on this issue, split on which view the have. I dont have the answer,but man am I glad Im not the guy who has to produce it! Just another factor "you guys" dont get enough credit for. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Edited by - The Red Walker on 22 Aug 2012 17:28:48 |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 18:03:25
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Interesting. As long as there are new products being released for the pre-Spellplague era, I'll be buying. If all we get is era-neutral products, then it's far less likely. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 18:35:12
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quote: Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Hail and well met,
Here's a blog post wherein I tried to capture the 4.5 hour event into a list/discussion of the secrets unveiled. Enjoy!
http://erikscottdebie.com/?p=507
Use this thread to discuss. I'm out for the evening, and I'll take questions starting tomorrow morning.
Cheers
"Eric Boyd recently took the classic Under Illefarn and adapted it into a 300-page (3.5) campaign setting to run for his kids—that’s the sort of thing WotC is hoping to release, probably with lore adaptations for multiple editions."
Holy smokes now that is awesome! 300 pages of Under Illefarn? Wowzers!! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 18:46:45
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quote: Originally posted by Brimstone
Looks like I was really close with that "Sinister Six" remark.
Instead it's the "Sundering Six". I like that.
I think that what we were hoping for - a CORE group of Realms experts has been taken to heart, and has actually been improved upon.
The way I see it, there is a much wider group of experts (as it should be), with people specialized in certain areas. 'Teams' are put together for specific projects (like the 'Sinister six"), but they are like cells in a much larger organization. From what I and others heard at the seminar, a LOT of behind-the-scenes- passing-around of beta-copies of stories, articles, sourcebooks, etc happens that we never know about, and gets proofread by people with a great amount of Realms knowledge, so that comments/suggestions/corrections can be made, before it ever sees print.
This more inclusive way of producing Realmslore benefits everyone - they get the benefit of a pool of experts (each other), and we get a more polished finished project. This is a wonderful thing, and from what I understand, something that was done in the early days of the published Realms. Some authors/designers avail themselves of the free resource, while others don't, and I think we can often tell who did what when we read something released. This is a major part of how they are getting back to FR's roots. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Aug 2012 18:47:08 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 18:52:58
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@MT: There was a planning meeting about a month ago for determining and outlining a lot of the lore I presented in my writeup. Attending were myself, Brian James, Brian Cortijo, Eric Boyd, George Krashos, Ed Greenwood, and WotC support from James Wyatt and Matt Sernett. James Wyatt initiated this meeting, yes, and contrived to have us all present or telecommuting in. WotC has proved itself receptive to outsourcing lore questions to the experts.
The "Sundering Six" are indeed a planning group, specifically planning their transitional event. They aren't necessarily the planning team that will put together the Realms going forward--that team has yet to be formally identified, but the way things are heading, it looks like that summit meeting I discussed may have something to do with it.
@TRW: Indeed, it was a short discussion, but I think an important one, and one that is particularly important to me. That's why it got stuck at the end of my writeup and was presented sort of as a "other discussion," once the main points were past.
I appreciate that it's a firebrand issue, and one that has the capacity to offend a lot of people, regardless of how it's dealt with. I think that the best way to broaden the perspective is to deal with it openly and honestly. If you want to close your eyes to it as a reader, that's fine--that's your choice. But we shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking that good stories don't embrace a wide range of characters, perspectives, and cultural stances.
You call out sexuality specifically, so let me address that. I don't want to turn this into a long discussion about sexuality in the Realms. We've done that on the boards, and while it makes for a great discussion, it also invites people with major hang-ups about the issue or (worse) intolerance as a baseline reaction. But I do think that the Realms is pushing in the direction of being more open and accepting, in part following a fanbase that reflects the same thing. Appealing exclusively to white straight guys is just not going to fly going forward, from a marketing standpoint or a narrative standpoint. I hope no one is surprised by the knowledge that there are non-male, non-white, and non-straight people who participate in the Realms, and it's not fair to keep making them secondary. I for one am very happy to see things broadening.
As for the actual breakdowns of sexuality in the Realms, that's pretty much impossible to crack. Attitudes toward sex and sexuality vary as much in the Realms as they do in our own world, and the setting doesn't have unifying labels the way we do. It's like trying to ascribe modern-day sexual mores to ancient Greece--it just doesn't compute. One could always assume (as I pretty much do) that just about every character in the Realms is "bisexual" (that is, attracted both to men and women) to some extent. Whether this manifests physically or mentally or just emotionally is up to the individual storyteller. And you know what? That's ok. It doesn't make a character more or less "manly" or "womanly." Indeed, being honest with oneself and brave enough to show it is FAR better than trying to conform to outside expectations.
I think there is real value in having characters who have actual sexual preferences that vary from the baseline, with their behavior and characterization handled responsibly and fairly. If it offends you (and really, you should ask yourself WHY it offends you), you always have the option to ignore it or read a different book.
If we're going to discuss this further, we should probably open another scroll about it.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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deserk
Learned Scribe
Norway
237 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 19:04:32
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As a white straight guy, I doth approve. :p
I've known that FR's been quite tolerant of sexuality from what I've read on So Saith Ed, which is awesome. But never expected it to be spoken about, officially, due the chance Christian radicals branding D&D as "eveel!" and D&D players as "Ungodly and Satanic tolerant people!". |
Edited by - deserk on 22 Aug 2012 19:05:12 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 19:28:18
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Well, I really don't care what the so-called "Christian radicals" say, and I don't think WotC's going to do that either.
I wouldn't expect the Realms to turn into GLBT-themed fiction (there's already plenty of that out there, mostly in fantasy). We can be fair and responsible in small but significant ways.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 19:34:58
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quote: Originally posted by deserk
As a white straight guy, I doth approve. :p
I've known that FR's been quite tolerant of sexuality from what I've read on So Saith Ed, which is awesome. But never expected it to be spoken about, officially, due the chance Christian radicals branding D&D as "eveel!" and D&D players as "Ungodly and Satanic tolerant people!".
I had this conversation with my old man when I was 14 or 15 when I started playing D&D. I stole the line from a dragon magazine article I believe, but I remember telling him that if saying a wizard lobbing a fireball at a pack of goblins is the same as occult spellcasting, then stealing monopoly money from the game tray counts as robbing an actual bank.
I think with the rise of video games and almost 40 years of history behind the game, this view should be a non-issue nowadays. And if a person goes nuts and happens to have played d&d, well it wasn't the game, the person was already broken in the head before that happened. |
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 19:36:22
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quote: Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I agree. That was a significant part of the conversation, and I hope it came across in a good way. The Realms has been and should remain a bastion of forward thinking fiction, wherein people are not bound up in the traditionalist fantasy (white, male, straight) that we often get. We need more women, more not-white people, and more people of varying sexualities. It does readers a disservice to pretend that the world is only made of straight white guys. I'm not saying every Realms novel should be that way, but on the whole the line should embrace diversity of background and perspective.
So long as this stays as a concept allowing writers to write what they want to and does not become a quota, then I'm in complete agreement. Otherwise, it becomes little more than reverse discrimination.
In this instance, I will accept it completely in the spirit it is spoken of. |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things." -Galen, technomage |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 19:46:56
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Indeed. I specifically said in the outline that tokenism should be avoided. Also, the Realms fiction is specifically looking into telling stories the authors are passionate about and want to tell. Small-scale stories have been like this for years, and heading forward, that's what we're going to see as well.
What I'm saying is that I want to see willingness and openness, not that anyone should be forced to write anything he/she doesn't want to.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 20:06:27
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Promises are meant to be broken, specially the good ones. I'd like that saying to be wrong this time around.
A couple of points:
On Ao reconstructing the Tablets of Fate: How will this be shown or addressed? As just a footnote in each of the Sundering novels?
On character-driven novels: Ever wonder what most fantasy novels that hold the #1 NY Times/International Bestseller title have in common? They tend to blow things up---the whole world. Adventure in a grand scale. Is this a bad thing? Not necessarily, specially when the characters are still given enough focus. As you pointed out, Erik, RSE-driven novels sold more than the non-RSE ones. I don't really like eradicating RSE wholesale. As I suggested in a not-so-distant past, authors can tone it down a bit by concentrating on just one realm at a time, just like what Richard did to Thay in The Haunted Lands, as opposed to blowing multiple realms up, as in Troy's Return of the Archwizards. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 20:24:47
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*meh*
There is no truer statement then "there is no such thing as bad publicity". This worked for D&D in the 80's (everyone wanted to play the 'forbidden game'), and it worked for Paris Hilton (who's only real talent is to make crappy, low-res B&W movies... and even those are kinda boring).
So let the Christian groups get their panties (bloomers?) in a bunch - we could use the publicity.
And as I am sure most of you must know, one has to question a person's... outlook... when they feel 'threatened' by someone with an alternative life style choice (and I use the term 'choice' because its valid - you may not be able to choose who or what you like, but you do choose to follow those desires. I know some folk who weren't true to themselves and created much heartache later on in their life). If nothing else, one should always be honest with one's self. 'Living a lie' is a disaster waiting to happen (one I have had the misfortune of seeing on several occasions). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 21:32:08
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@MT: Well said.
@Dennis: I'm not sure how AO's reconstruction of the Tablets will be addressed in the fiction, if it even will (directly). My sense of the Sundering novels is that they are mostly personal, character-driven stories, with the divine and political dramatic implications of the Tablets of Fate taking place mostly in the background. I couldn't comment on whether there will be actual scenes involving the gods directly. I guess we'll have to see.
And I question the "Bestselling Novels have to blow things up" concept. Bob's Drizzt novels were never RSEs until *maybe* Siege of Darkness (8 books in), then again in Gauntlgrym. Generally speaking, he's done quite well for himself telling the small, personal stories that don't blow up the Realms.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 21:38:42
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quote: Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
@MT: Well said.
@Dennis: I'm not sure how AO's reconstruction of the Tablets will be addressed in the fiction, if it even will (directly). My sense of the Sundering novels is that they are mostly personal, character-driven stories, with the divine and political dramatic implications of the Tablets of Fate taking place mostly in the background. I couldn't comment on whether there will be actual scenes involving the gods directly. I guess we'll have to see.
And I question the "Bestselling Novels have to blow things up" concept. Bob's Drizzt novels were never RSEs until *maybe* Siege of Darkness (8 books in), then again in Gauntlgrym. Generally speaking, he's done quite well for himself telling the small, personal stories that don't blow up the Realms.
Cheers
I'd hardly consider Siege of Darkness an RSE in the sense of blowing things up. Sure, things did blow up, but hardly on a world altering scale (though I would ask any of the mind flayers who tried to eat the Harpells brains...I'm sure their world was rocked hahaha).
The biggest effects of SoD were that Mithral Hall was a location on the world map again, and House Baenre changed leadership. The Realms were very much as they were before SoD, just with a new pip on the map. Additive fiction. |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things." -Galen, technomage |
Edited by - ZeshinX on 22 Aug 2012 21:40:10 |
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Tamsar
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
141 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 22:00:43
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Lifted from Erik's Blog (hope you don't mind)
quote: Eric Boyd recently took the classic Under Illefarn and adapted it into a 300-page (3.5) campaign setting to run for his kids—that’s the sort of thing WotC is hoping to release, probably with lore adaptations for multiple editions.
Who do I have to maim/kill/bribe/hug or whatever so that this see's the light of day? I just about exploded with excitement when I read that snippet. This HAS to be published.
Never been to a GenCon, but the CK seminar 2013 would be reason enough to go for sure. |
Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 22:11:52
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quote: Originally posted by Tamsar
Lifted from Erik's Blog (hope you don't mind)
quote: Eric Boyd recently took the classic Under Illefarn and adapted it into a 300-page (3.5) campaign setting to run for his kids—that’s the sort of thing WotC is hoping to release, probably with lore adaptations for multiple editions.
Who do I have to maim/kill/bribe/hug or whatever so that this see's the light of day? I just about exploded with excitement when I read that snippet. This HAS to be published.
Never been to a GenCon, but the CK seminar 2013 would be reason enough to go for sure.
{zips mouth}
What I can tell you is that when it does become available - in whatever form it takes - sell your soul to get a copy. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Aug 2012 22:12:41 |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 22:14:04
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I'm hoping that Abeir isn't forgotten after this event happens. I'd like to see some material written about it. I'd REALLY like to see some novels written about it. I was hoping that we would eventually get a novel set in Returned Abeir but I figure that won't happen now. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 22:31:06
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According to several people (like BRJ and James Wyatt), at this point "its a possibility". Considering they have mentioned active portals between swapped and re-swapped (as of 5e) regions, I think its safe to say that at some point we have to get some sort of Abeir lore.
What form it takes and how much of it we see will depend entirely upon fan-interest. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 22:49:12
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Racial and sexual diversity is something not just the Realms fiction and game needs, but D&D as a whole. It's severely lacking and the lack of progress is stunning.
Then again, I am not surprised. D&D has mostly the same crowd that cried for blood when they presented a half-black/half-Puerto Rican in Ultimate Spiderman. This is also the same crowd that, for some reason, has an issue with seeing a non-white male protagonist in the video game limelight.
The lack of not only diversity, but also marketing, has alienated the minority for sure. My wife teaches in the inner city in a school that has a 95% population of African-American high school students. With the home life, neighborhood, and social pressure they have to deal with here, I was glad to jump in and offer a "D&D After School" club and we had a good turnout of students interested. It felt good to show them something fun, exciting, different, imaginative, and even educational.
But I am one of the very few that would go out their way to do that. Without volunteerism, the RPG market is completely invisible.
The Forgotten Realms actually has a very diverse culture and diverse physical characteristics of the human population, many of which can be attributed to real-life nationalities. Unfortunately, I don't really think many of us here can name a famous fictional D&D character that's not a light-skinned European.
The thread is long gone on the WotC Forgotten Realms boards, but my friend, who is African-American and is a hardcore D&D player, had began a topic on the boards that asked why the lack of progress concerning fantasy characters in the Realms, and D&D as a whole.
It was in this discussion that Ed Greenwood himself jumped in to defend his position and even stated such a question would rise up eventually and saw the day coming. He said the Realms was always meant to be diverse, especially considering where he grew up, and that he has always been dismayed by TSR/WotC's lack of progress concerning the issue.
The details of that entire thread elude me, it was back in 2004 I believe, and, sadly, it escalated into an issue WotC decided to just lock away and ignore. They may have even deleted the entire thread, which is downright disgusting if you ask me. They swept it all under the rug instead of actually paying attention to what was being discussed.
In any case, here's to hoping progress concerning race and sexuality finally takes bigger steps this time around. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2012 : 23:01:49
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The cover of Complete Arcane features a wizard from Turmish.
Sadly, its one of the few prominent examples, but it is there.
For more on why this sort of things occurs, read the history of the iconic 3e NPC Redgar (the RW history, NOT the character history). He was actually a last minute add by the advertising people to appeal to the "young, white male' demographic, and despite designer protests, was used as THE prominent display stand-up at all the retailers.
So its not always the designers - a lot of times these things are taken completely out of their hands. If you read the full story of Redgar (I can't remember where I read it), it also tells you how the designers 'got even' with the ad people over the years for that one. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Aug 2012 23:02:31 |
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