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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6070 Posts

Posted - 24 Oct 2020 :  02:07:56  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As I understand it, Ed did not create the concept of the celestial stairways for the ToT but considers that his work on the Endless Stair provided a fair amount of inspiration for that concept.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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PattPlays
Learned Scribe

256 Posts

Posted - 24 Oct 2020 :  03:51:26  Show Profile  Visit PattPlays's Homepage Send PattPlays a Private Message  Reply with Quote
B-But that comic with the celestial stairways predates Planescape! Is the citation on the comic's date wrong? Was Planescape in development for a decade before publishing?

:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, RIP Pluto: :IRC lives:


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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6070 Posts

Posted - 24 Oct 2020 :  05:00:28  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm talking about the staircase in the Endless Star adventure and the celestial staircase in the Time of Troubles. I'm not talking about Planescape at all, and frankly Planescape has nothing to do with the Realms in my view.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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PattPlays
Learned Scribe

256 Posts

Posted - 24 Oct 2020 :  09:10:49  Show Profile  Visit PattPlays's Homepage Send PattPlays a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I'm talking about the staircase in the Endless Star adventure and the celestial staircase in the Time of Troubles. I'm not talking about Planescape at all, and frankly Planescape has nothing to do with the Realms in my view.

-- George Krashos

I'm not actually on the topic of lore anymore- I'm literally wondering which idea came first in real life. The earliest of the staircases in question that I have been able to tag is the Time of Troubles comic I referenced earlier which was supposedly published in 1990. The earlier discussion in this thread seemed to suggest that Realmslore writers were inspired to make their own version of the Infinite Staircase after Planescape released the idea in 1998. This was supported by the introduction text I quoted from For Duty & Deity. However this comes into conflict with the Celestial Staircase's comic TOT appearance predating (IRL) publication of the very module (Tales from the infinite staircase) that For Duty & Deity references. My only answer is that I have the date wrong on this specific comic's publication.

:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, RIP Pluto: :IRC lives:


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Edited by - PattPlays on 24 Oct 2020 09:11:41
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7357 Posts

Posted - 24 Oct 2020 :  12:09:56  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have a 2E PHB which says it's a first printing, copyright 1988. Although I probably bought it in 1989, it could have publisher licensing weirdness. The Avatar novels were released simultaneously - they heralded 2E rules in the "flagship" setting - so they might also be dated back to 1988 or 1989.

The first I heard of 2E was from the guy at the game store. PHB and DMG and MM and FRA, all sitting beside the novel trilogy. No hype, no announcement, no marketing. But to be fair, I didn't buy Dungeon/Dragon magazines at the time, I never read the comic books, I read whatever novels my local library had in their always-behind-the-times inventory. So maybe the "Endless Stair" was mentioned somewhere before 1990. Though it certainly wasn't around when Manual of the Planes came out in 1987.

[/Ayrik]
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PattPlays
Learned Scribe

256 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2020 :  08:23:50  Show Profile  Visit PattPlays's Homepage Send PattPlays a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

I have a 2E PHB which says it's a first printing, copyright 1988. Although I probably bought it in 1989, it could have publisher licensing weirdness. The Avatar novels were released simultaneously - they heralded 2E rules in the "flagship" setting - so they might also be dated back to 1988 or 1989.

The first I heard of 2E was from the guy at the game store. PHB and DMG and MM and FRA, all sitting beside the novel trilogy. No hype, no announcement, no marketing. But to be fair, I didn't buy Dungeon/Dragon magazines at the time, I never read the comic books, I read whatever novels my local library had in their always-behind-the-times inventory. So maybe the "Endless Stair" was mentioned somewhere before 1990. Though it certainly wasn't around when Manual of the Planes came out in 1987.



so from torillian gods' oerspecftives the infinite staircase has always been a thing, and it gained aspects in other forms and realms as all yhings cosmic tend to do here.
Meanwhile in the planescape setting, not set in any one crystal sphere but touching all of them, introduces the infinite staircase.
Waukeen's decisions in For duty & Diety just have me curious about a few remaining threads. I want to read back through that splatbook because the authors wrote "infinite staircase as described in his cool thing planescape made" but I want to know what termenology is used by the game's lore itself and if the celestial staircase is referenced alongside the use of the infinite staircase..

:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, RIP Pluto: :IRC lives:


https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com

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cpthero2
Great Reader

USA
2249 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2020 :  20:18:33  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Krashos,

Gotcha. That is interesting. All this time I thought it was all Ed on that. I did not know otherwise. Then again, I didn't know the Hooded One was not his wife, so geez, there you go. haha

Best regards,



Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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