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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
 Posted - 24 May 2012 : 13:52:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
I think you are over thinking this, Wondrous Item like Tome provide a permanent effect. Also the existing rules would appear to permit my plan, no reason for house rules IMO
Tome boosts are limited to an inherent bonus applied to ability scores, and cannot go past a +5 increase. This, coupled with their high cost, is ideally able to limit their effectiveness. Consider that as soon as you shift to an untyped bonus (that has no upper limit), even a +1 untyped increase permanently is an artifact-level item (one Dragon issue statted them out), and thus a complete GM fiat on the player's ability to get it. Wealth By Level becomes an integral part of the character in 3rd and 3.5e (it's assumed that characters will have access to the wealth specified for their level in most fights), but buying permanent abilities with WBL is... risky. It's a bit like gaining the benefits of a character level without actually going up a level, especially if you're limited in the number of attributes you rely on (a wizard can easily justify the cost of a Tome of Intelligence because they really only need INT).
Some feats can be justifiable for this, such as the Iron Will feat (granted by the Otyugh Hole location and costing around 3000gp or thereabouts). It's fairly cheap, but the effect isn't grand, so it can get by. Using WBL to pay for, say, an Eberron dragonmark feat, on the other hand, is a different story. The 3E system has enough balance issues as-is. When wizards and other spellcasters have easy means of generating effectively unlimited wealth (and the ways they can do it only increase with character level), feats-as-wealth can easily land squarely in the "No, Just No" category. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 15:21:45
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The magical tomes and librams which are commonly listed have those limitations and descriptors. Any number of new, unique, and undocumented other magical tomes with other magical effects could exist. And truthfully, granting a permanent ability to cast a single middly-level random spell is not overly spectacular.
I would find it interesting if this one kind of shouting was only one possible expression or part of a group of powers ... perhaps shouting, commanding, dominating, orating, influencing, powers ... maybe this character is part of a rare bloodline of "charismatics" or something.
As it stands, he seemingly has one random spell like ability. Might as well just say he swallowed a magical throat-symbiote-bug or wears a magical necklace - or drank a potion or read a book - to gain this power.
Of course, I haven't read anything written about the character ... my criticism is meant to only view him and his ability from a gaming perspective. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 16:27:48
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Eric (lol, so used to typing "Erik" as of late that I almost mispelled it),
In revision to my comment above about vulnerability to dispel magic, I have the following points:
First, something else I think you should consider as a prerequisite for the Brew Elixer feat would be the access to the permanency spell. This shows that the spellcaster at least has knowledge of how to make spells permanent, even if the spell itself does not go into the the creation of elixers.
Also, I am not sure I agree with you on the gp cost (yes, despite what I said above). By creating a new magic item slot, you are essentially granting all characters an extra epic feat. That does seem a little unbalanced.
I think what I would do is limit all of the gained spell-like abilities to 3/day and have the equation be "spell level * caster level (min 9th as per feat) * 2,160 gp." I got 2,160 gp value from "(1,800 gp [command word activation] / 1.66667 [5 / 3 uses per day]) * 2 [multiplier for magical item without an item slot]. This would make them normal magical items without item slots, so characters could gain as many spell like abilities as they could afford.
The cost of the elixer of shout you presented above (even with the added item slot at no cost) would be "4 (spell level) * 9 (min caster level as per feat) * 1,800 gp (command word activation) / 0.05 (5/100 uses per day [unlimitied used per day]) = 1,296,000 gp" by using the 3.5 magic item creation table. It could be modified for the following uses per day (while still requiring a new item slot): 1/day (12,960 gp), 2/day (25,920 gp), 3/day (38,880 gp), 4/day (51,840 gp), or 5/day (51,840 gp). To make any of these values "slotless," just multiply them by 2.
Sincerely,
Tim "Hawkins" Wallace
P.S. if the above post lacks tact, please forgive me. I am not trying to be rude, just to give you an honest appraisal of the balance of your proposed mechanic. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 16:37:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
Eric (lol, so used to typing "Erik" as of late that I almost mispelled it),
In revision to my comment above about vulnerability to dispel magic, I have the following points:
First, something else I think you should consider as a prerequisite for the Brew Elixer feat would be the access to the permanency spell. This shows that the spellcaster at least has knowledge of how to make spells permanent, even if the spell itself does not go into the the creation of elixers.
Also, I am not sure I agree with you on the gp cost (yes, despite what I said above). By creating a new magic item slot, you are essentially granting all characters an extra epic feat. That does seem a little unbalanced.
I think what I would do is limit all of the gained spell-like abilities to 3/day and have the equation be "spell level * caster level (min 9th as per feat) * 2,160 gp." I got 2,160 gp value from "(1,800 gp [command word activation] / 1.66667 [5 / 3 uses per day]) * 2 [multiplier for magical item without an item slot]. This would make them normal magical items without item slots, so characters could gain as many spell like abilities as they could afford.
The cost of the elixer of shout you presented above (even with the added item slot at no cost) would be "4 (spell level) * 9 (min caster level as per feat) * 1,800 gp (command word activation) / 0.05 (5/100 uses per day [unlimitied used per day]) = 1,296,000 gp" by using the 3.5 magic item creation table. It could be modified for the following uses per day (while still requiring a new item slot): 1/day (12,960 gp), 2/day (25,920 gp), 3/day (38,880 gp), 4/day (51,840 gp), or 5/day (51,840 gp). To make any of these values "slotless," just multiply them by 2.
Sincerely,
Tim "Hawkins" Wallace
P.S. if the above post lacks tact, please forgive me. I am not trying to be rude, just to give you an honest appraisal of the balance of your proposed mechanic.
No worries. Appreciate the feedback. My 3.5e rules-knowledge is a bit rusty and it didn't seem balanced. That's why I posted. ;-) |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 16:58:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
I think what I would do is limit all of the gained spell-like abilities to 3/day and have the equation be "spell level * caster level (min 9th as per feat) * 2,160 gp." I got 2,160 gp value from "(1,800 gp [command word activation] / 1.66667 [5 / 3 uses per day]) * 2 [multiplier for magical item without an item slot]. This would make them normal magical items without item slots, so characters could gain as many spell like abilities as they could afford.
If you're set on doing it, I'd bump up the cost in this equation. Because the SLAs can't be suppressed by dispel magic or disjoined by a disjunction, as other magic items can, as well as their inability to be removed, they have several advantages over other magic items. Still a dangerous precedent, in my opinion, but I've given my thoughts on that already. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 17:26:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
I think what I would do is limit all of the gained spell-like abilities to 3/day and have the equation be "spell level * caster level (min 9th as per feat) * 2,160 gp." I got 2,160 gp value from "(1,800 gp [command word activation] / 1.66667 [5 / 3 uses per day]) * 2 [multiplier for magical item without an item slot]. This would make them normal magical items without item slots, so characters could gain as many spell like abilities as they could afford.
If you're set on doing it, I'd bump up the cost in this equation. Because the SLAs can't be suppressed by dispel magic or disjoined by a disjunction, as other magic items can, as well as their inability to be removed, they have several advantages over other magic items. Still a dangerous precedent, in my opinion, but I've given my thoughts on that already.
Good point, using the magical items rules makes it as if you had cast the spell as a spellcaster. Hm, I just don't really know right now what multiplier I would use (probably either another x1.5 or x2). |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 19:27:07
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| I still suggest it best to simply rule the "Potion" an Artifact that permanently bestows the ability you desire. This prevents the re-production of the potion all together. Artifacts, also, are "out of the norm" as far as rules go, and so it is easily explained. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 19:50:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I still suggest it best to simply rule the "Potion" an Artifact that permanently bestows the ability you desire. This prevents the re-production of the potion all together. Artifacts, also, are "out of the norm" as far as rules go, and so it is easily explained.
I dunno, to me an artifact is more permanent than a potion -- as in, artifacts can be around for thousands of years, and dropping one on the floor isn't enough to ruin it forever. |
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Sightless
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 20:11:41
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Well I once had a friend ask on the WOTC sight on that place where you can ask rules related questions, and the question and answer was simlar to what you want here.
The question: is there a mechanic for granting players special abilities, and if so, what would be the best way for doing it?
Answer: While the granting of special abilities to a player should be considered carefully by the DM, as it can lead to unbalanced games, there are currently mechanics in the game for allowing such a thing to occur. While there are a number of means at a DM's disposal, the use of a tome, would be the most appropriate for granting this ability.
Oh, by the way, the one magic ability I like the most is scent, and I often take it in place of a feat, but that had no barring on what's above. |
We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.
Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 20:14:06
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Wooly some minor 3.5 artifacts are one time use. Example.
quote:
Philosopher’s Stone
This rare substance appears to be an ordinary, sooty piece of blackish rock. If the stone is broken open (break DC 20), a cavity is revealed at the stone’s heart. This cavity is lined with a magical type of quicksilver that enables any arcane spellcaster to transmute base metals (iron and lead) into silver and gold. A single philosopher’s stone can turn from up to 5,000 pounds of iron into silver, or up to 1,000 pounds of lead into gold. However, the quicksilver becomes unstable once the stone is opened and loses its potency within 24 hours, so all transmutations must take place within that period.
The quicksilver found in the center of the stone may also be put to another use. If mixed with any cure potion while the substance is still potent, it creates a special oil of life that acts as a true resurrection spell for any dead body it is sprinkled upon.
Strong transmutation; CL 20th;Weight 3 lb.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 20:57:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Wooly some minor 3.5 artifacts are one time use. Example.
quote:
Philosopher’s Stone
This rare substance appears to be an ordinary, sooty piece of blackish rock. If the stone is broken open (break DC 20), a cavity is revealed at the stone’s heart. This cavity is lined with a magical type of quicksilver that enables any arcane spellcaster to transmute base metals (iron and lead) into silver and gold. A single philosopher’s stone can turn from up to 5,000 pounds of iron into silver, or up to 1,000 pounds of lead into gold. However, the quicksilver becomes unstable once the stone is opened and loses its potency within 24 hours, so all transmutations must take place within that period.
The quicksilver found in the center of the stone may also be put to another use. If mixed with any cure potion while the substance is still potent, it creates a special oil of life that acts as a true resurrection spell for any dead body it is sprinkled upon.
Strong transmutation; CL 20th;Weight 3 lb.
When I think of artifacts, I don't use the 3.5 version -- I think of the 1E and 2E versions: OMG insanely powerful, unique devices that you build a campaign around.
One of the books in that era actually described artifacts as a reason for a DM to break the rules.
I think 1E also used the term "relics". I'd use that, or something like that, to distinguish those items that are less than a 1E/2E artifact, but still more than what your average level 20 spellslinger could make.
I really like 3.5E, but I seriously dislike how magic items were handled. I think they over-simplified, and in doing so took a lot of the wonder out of magic items. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 21:19:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I really like 3.5E, but I seriously dislike how magic items were handled. I think they over-simplified, and in doing so took a lot of the wonder out of magic items.
Now, now, no edition wars as to if 1st or 2nd was better then 3rd. *wink*
Eric did ask for how under 3.5 as I recall, so answer was clearly based on that.
In many ways I agree that an artifact should not be a one time use item. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 21:32:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I really like 3.5E, but I seriously dislike how magic items were handled. I think they over-simplified, and in doing so took a lot of the wonder out of magic items.
Now, now, no edition wars as to if 1st or 2nd was better then 3rd. *wink*
Eric did ask for how under 3.5 as I recall, so answer was clearly based on that.
In many ways I agree that an artifact should not be a one time use item.
No, this wasn't part of the edition wars.  I was responding from a different frame of reference, so it's all my bad. Even though I think 3.5/Pathfinder is the best ruleset to date, I "grew up" in 2E, so I thinking of gaming stuff from a 2E standpoint. I think of fighters and thieves and healing potions and wands of fire, not warriors and rogues and potions of heal or wands of fireball. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 21:51:39
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The philosopher's stone, as described in AD&D and D&D, has always been a rather lame magical item.
To be sure, in our world this stone was a fable, thought to be unique and perhaps even nothing more than an impossible ideal. Many kings and scholars and alchemists dedicated wealth and lifetimes towards the search for this item. Many wondrous things were attributed to it ... transmuting base metals into precious metals, providing healing and resurrection, granting immortality and eternal youth, etc etc. I won't even bother with quotes and links because so many things have been said by so many people about this mythical stone for so many years, it's basically the occulty version of the ultimate elixir or holy grail or aerospace unobtainium.
But in D&D, in the Realms ... this fantastic stone should be a comparatively available item. I mean, it's not going to be quarried by the ton, but surely there's enough bits of this material around for every competent alchemist to obtain some over the course of his career? It's a potent alchemical ingredient, to be sure, but the stated powers are not particularly exciting or special compared to other alchemical reagents. Even powdered diamond has a dozen more uses than this stone, even a magical potion or a pinch of residuum has more immediate application than this unexciting substance. It might as well just be another entry in a long index of alchemical radicals, as written it does not deserve the space it's been given in text which should discuss magical items. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2012 : 23:12:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I still suggest it best to simply rule the "Potion" an Artifact that permanently bestows the ability you desire. This prevents the re-production of the potion all together. Artifacts, also, are "out of the norm" as far as rules go, and so it is easily explained.
I dunno, to me an artifact is more permanent than a potion -- as in, artifacts can be around for thousands of years, and dropping one on the floor isn't enough to ruin it forever.
An Artifact (or Relic...what have you) is something beyond the ability of mortal magic to create. Thus, this Elixir could have been a gift from a God that was lost. The fact that it is an Artifact makes it permanent...incapable (except under the most powerful magic) to be removed.
Whatever your decision... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 00:01:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I still suggest it best to simply rule the "Potion" an Artifact that permanently bestows the ability you desire. This prevents the re-production of the potion all together. Artifacts, also, are "out of the norm" as far as rules go, and so it is easily explained.
I dunno, to me an artifact is more permanent than a potion -- as in, artifacts can be around for thousands of years, and dropping one on the floor isn't enough to ruin it forever.
An Artifact (or Relic...what have you) is something beyond the ability of mortal magic to create. Thus, this Elixir could have been a gift from a God that was lost. The fact that it is an Artifact makes it permanent...incapable (except under the most powerful magic) to be removed.
Whatever your decision...
When I spoke of permanence, I meant that the item itself would be more permanent. To me, something really can't be considered a permanent object, or even beyond mortal magic, when simply dropping it on the floor will forever destroy it. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 00:09:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
When I spoke of permanence, I meant that the item itself would be more permanent. To me, something really can't be considered a permanent object, or even beyond mortal magic, when simply dropping it on the floor will forever destroy it.
Who said dropping it would destroy it? Perhaps it would shatter...only to reform immediately. It is a rather unique artifact that can only be destroyed by consuming it. 
EDIT: cleaned up some quoting issues |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 25 May 2012 01:18:40 |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 00:57:38
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Why not just come up with an alternative magic system that
Ed says that are running around in the Realms. No prior
rules headaches, and you adjucate it as you see fit. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 01:46:16
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Player: "Uh, I'm not a wizard. How can I cast this spell? I can't find the rules."
DM: "These rules; write them down on your character sheet. You have a unique unexplained ability to cast this particular spell, without components, twice per week, exactly as if you were a wizard of half your experience level. It's just something you could do ever since you fell on your head as a baby. No other explanation is available or required." |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 25 May 2012 01:51:11 |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 01:57:35
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Lots of good feedback and ideas on this thread.
Here's my original motivation:
N5 - Under Illefarn (the 1e adventure I'm adapting to 3.5e), page 15, said:
"Pwyll recently gained his nickname of Greatshout after swallowing an unknown potion he discovered in the sack of Dragonspear Castle. Apparently the liquid gave him the ability to shout as if he were using a fabled Horn of Blasting. His voice is considerably roughened from when he set out on that last campaign against evil, but no one has seen or heard him use the Great Shout since he came back from the wars. There are many stories of its use during the last weeks of the campaign, though."
Current thought: 3.5e already has elixirs, which I had forgotten. They are basically more powerful potions than you can make with Brew Potion (which is capped at 3rd level spells) and are not necessarily tied to spells. You create them with Craft Wondrous Item. The DMG and the Magic Item Compendium have a bunch of examples.
So, no need for a new item class, no need for a new feat. They are just one-shot magic items.
This makes the following items easy to design:
Elixir of Shouting
Price (Item Level): 1,400 gp (5th)
Body Slot: —
Caster Level: 7th
Aura: Moderate; (DC 19) evocation [sonic]
Activation: Standard (manipulation)
Weight: 1 lb.
This strange elixir bestows upon the drinker the ability to shout (as the spell). If unused, this ability dissipates 1 hour after the liquid is consumed.
Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, shout.
Cost to Create: 700 gp, 56 XP, 2 days.
Elixir of Greatshout
Price (Item Level): 6,000 gp (10th)
Body Slot: —
Caster Level: 15th
Aura: Strong; (DC 23) evocation [sonic]
Activation: Standard (manipulation)
Weight: 1 lb.
This strange elixir bestows upon the drinker the ability to greater shout (as the spell). If unused, this ability dissipates 1 hour after the liquid is consumed.
Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, greater shout.
Cost to Create: 3,000 gp, 240 XP, 6 days.
Then the next question is how to make a recurring potion/elixir.
I think I have an idea for that. More on that in a bit. |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 03:48:59
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Comments welcome. I'm tempted to make this a minor artifact and be done with it, but I took a stab at pricing it.
Price Calculation: 17 (caster level) * 9 (spell level) * 1/5 * 2,000 = 61,200. Essentially, a gorget of swallows is a wondrous item with a single undetermined spell effect of any level usable 1/day. Theoretically, an elixir could be created by Craft Wondrous Item to emulate a 9th level spell cast by a 17th level caster, usable 1/day at a cost of 61,200 gp, so I went with that price.
Gorget of Swallows
==================
Price (Item Level): 61,200 gp (13th)
Body Slot: Throat
Caster Level: 17th
Aura: Strong; (DC 19) transmutation
Activation: Standard (mental)
Weight: 5 lb.
This shiny steel collar is embossed with images of swallows in flight, bursting forth from an ornate glass vial.
A gorget of swallows is a steel collar designed to be worn around the neck.
Once per day, as a swift action, a gorget of swallows allows the wearer to emulate the effect of the last potion or elixir swallowed.
A gorget of swallows has no effect if no potion or elixir has been swallowed since donning the gorget of swallows or since the wearer has been subject to an antimagic field or a successful dispel magic.
Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, quick potion (Spell Compendium), Rary’s mnemonic enhancer.
Cost to Create: 30,600 gp, 2,448 XP, 62 days.
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
Edited by - ericlboyd on 25 May 2012 11:47:51 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 03:49:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
When I spoke of permanence, I meant that the item itself would be more permanent. To me, something really can't be considered a permanent object, or even beyond mortal magic, when simply dropping it on the floor will forever destroy it.
Who said dropping it would destroy it? Perhaps it would shatter...only to reform immediately. It is a rather unique artifact that can only be destroyed by consuming it.
EDIT: cleaned up some quoting issues
If a liquid retains its shape after its container is destroyed, I'm not drinking it! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 06:38:34
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Hi Eric. The Realms once again feels like a better place with you digging around in it!
In one of my Fallen Kingdoms internal musings long ago, I was thinking about some unique "lost" magic items/regalia of that realm. I was struck by the description for the magic item "goblet of glory" which commented that it was thought to have a more powerful, Netherese precursor. That made me think of similar type, minor artifact magic items, and I came up with the idea of a Netherese item that allowed you to drink a magic potion from it which made the effects of that potion last all day (subject to game rules - i.e. invisibility etc.) or work at maximum (i.e. a potion of fire breath so affected would do maximum damage). The goblet would only work an on individual once in any ten-day - so as not to make it overpowered - but very, very rarely (the proverbial 95-00 on percentile dice) it would make potion effects permanent for that individual (one-shot potions ala invisibility or damage potions ala fire breath above would confer a 1/day spell-like ability on the imbiber) and the item would never again function for that individual. I recall that I gave the item a name - will have to search through my notebooks. Cheers.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2066 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2012 : 14:08:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I still suggest it best to simply rule the "Potion" an Artifact that permanently bestows the ability you desire. This prevents the re-production of the potion all together. Artifacts, also, are "out of the norm" as far as rules go, and so it is easily explained.
I dunno, to me an artifact is more permanent than a potion -- as in, artifacts can be around for thousands of years, and dropping one on the floor isn't enough to ruin it forever.
An Artifact (or Relic...what have you) is something beyond the ability of mortal magic to create. Thus, this Elixir could have been a gift from a God that was lost. The fact that it is an Artifact makes it permanent...incapable (except under the most powerful magic) to be removed.
Whatever your decision...
When I spoke of permanence, I meant that the item itself would be more permanent. To me, something really can't be considered a permanent object, or even beyond mortal magic, when simply dropping it on the floor will forever destroy it.
You make the receptacle an artifact.
Artifact: Flask of the Banshee - drinking the disgusting, greenish fluid from this flask gives the imbiber the ability to use Great Shout x times per day. After consuming the contents, the flask disappears (presumably to wreak havoc on some other world).
You probably should add-in a drawback, like a cumulative (10% per daily usage) for the recipient to become an actual banshee (or something else - a male banshee is a bit weird). I don't know what sort of usage-limit you put on him, so I left that variable.
*I hadn't finished reading through the thread - I now see you came up with a similar solution. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 May 2012 14:11:36 |
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LordXenophon
Learned Scribe
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2019 : 00:31:07
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| All of the elixirs in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical come with lengthy tables of mostly failed results, some disastrous. Duke Pwyll was very lucky. |
Disintegration is in the eye of the Beholder. |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2019 : 00:11:32
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As you stated you want explanation for elixir giving permanent ability and that make sense to me as it is - a powerful unique elixir.
However as you originally asked more broadly I would like to offer a different solution possibly for other uses - a rune magic.
It is already there in the lore with multiple options of abilities it can grant to a user. It is not a stretch to say you can place a rune on a person.
Closest item in book is Monk Tatoo (MoF p.163). The point is - you can permanently imbue magic onto person who can then use it. I have a inspiration in books from Mr Stackpole where elven hero was tattoed with elven runes and each had given him ability to cast a specific spell. |
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Granting Spell-Like Abilities
