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antilochus
Acolyte

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2012 :  05:00:18  Show Profile Send antilochus a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hello
This is my first post, and I don't imagine that I will make a habit of it. I was brought into this forum at the suggestion of a friend who, after many, many years of my pushing, finally picked up some of my old Forgotten Realms novels and got into them in a big way. He's been posting a while and I have to admit I wanted my voice to be heard as well.

I'm just coming out of my twenties and was a Realms fan, pretty hardcore, from the tender age of 11, when I first picked up The Wyvern's Spur at a bookstore in South Korea. Although I had been reading DragonLance for six months or so, FR was something on another level completely, and so much more interesting. I was hooked from the first book and stayed a steady and devoted fan for the next 14 years.

I collected the novels and sourcebooks - notably Faiths and Avatars, the Draconomicon, and anything related to the cosomolgy of the FR multiverse from 1992 until about 2004. I was addicted.
Sometime in the early 2000s, the books were beginning to take on a diffferent flavour and were getting less interesting. Namely, instead of localized crises and incidents, everything had become a world shaking event. Naturally, big changes accompany these big events.

As my fantasy world changed irrevocably, as it seemed to me, I lost interest and stopped collecting avidly. When 4E came out and sank the Forgotten Realms (in my opinion, at least), I stopped buying entirely. I did make the mistake of buying the Manual of the Planes and a few of the novels one day - but i will get to that later.

Now that there are discussions underway on how to "fix" the realms, I thought to tender my two cents on this. Maybe the sheer logic and marketing sense will be appealing and do some good.

Let me preface what follows with this statement: I'm not a hardcore nerd for the game itself, or even much of a nerd at all, but I am an intelligent and devoted fan of what the Realms once were. Moreover, and perhaps most importantly, I was buying the products as a member a very desirable marketing segment of the population at large. I am a college gradute and professional with disposable income to spare.

What follows are 6 major points with subs that I think must be addressed for 5E to prosper:

1: The cosmology must be fixed. The changes which I saw in the Manual of the Planes disgusted me. Bounded planes, the disposal of the thought provoking great wheel cosmology (in which Sigil's shape and access to the planes actually has a meaning), and the introduction of the Far Realm and etc were disastrous. It was, for all intents and purposes, the same as changing the laws of physics in our universe. Many concepts and "facts" of the Realms no longer have meaning in an altered cosmology, and the band-aids thrown in to make sense of the changes were horrifically insufficient. I should spew a stream of invectives regarding the shadowfell and feywild at this point, but I hardly think that necessary for anyone who loves the FR setting. They speak for themselves.

1A: No more far realm. Were limitless planes of every description too mundane? I found this a trite addition that spoke volumes about the mindset of the people in charge of the development of the product. It smacked of the late 90s when everything was marketed as "extreme" with some minor and pointless addition to an existing product and the price hiked up by 20%. How unimaginative. How passe.

2: Fix the pantheons. I was initially drawn to the FR multiverse for its varied and very "grey area" pantheons. It had all the flavour of Norse, Greek, and Babylonian mythology without stealing too directly (ok, barring Mulhorand and Unther, but we all cut corners somewhere). Mythology is a staple of human life, and a complex fantasy mythology was utterly fascinating. The exarch and whatnot version of this is lacking in imagination, complexity, and basic sense.

2A: Do away with the primordials. As above, the mythology was original and complex as it existed. Borrowing jotuns from Norse mythology and titans from Greek mythology, albeit with some minor changes, is not original. I have a library of my own full of Norse and Greek mythology. I don't want to look to the realms for twisted versions of that mythology. That is what the original D&D setting was for - Forgotten Realms was "Advanced" last I heard.

2B: Asmodeus as a god of sin... i don't know if anyone at Wizards had figured out that kids from a Judeo-Christian background were looking to the realms to escape from reality, but the thought should have occurred at some point. We already had evil gods to balance the good gods in the pantheons, and it was working fine. The same goes for the demon princes - or gods as they now are. They were just powerful demons before - let's go back to that. Bear in mind that I LOVE the nine hells as they existed and, to a large measure, still exist, but fallen angels and demons are a far cry from the gods themselves.

The absence of light and dark fighting over the world in an overstated black (evil) vs white (good) fashion was what seperated the forgotten realms from the less-than-subtle Dragonlance setting, which I left for the more complex and interesting Forgotten Realms setting. Balance, complexity, and a broadly defined gray area, were the key selling points.

3: Complexity. This is REQUIRED. FR is not, and will never be, a setting you sell to morons. FR sells to intelligent people who want room to think and question. It should be marketed as such. Making things simple does nothing to draw thinking, intelligent people to your setting. The people it does appeal to have no interest in a fantasy setting for their escapism - they drink beer or sniff glue to get that escape.

4: Dragons. Heck, monsters in general. I mistakenly bought a 4E Chromatic Dragons Draconomicon. It was a deplorable work. I was actually ashamed to have spent money on it, and I have collected any FR dragon literature religiously since 1991. The same is true of the Monstrous manual. I felt like more was being done to sell 4E in those sourcebooks than to give players game information, and in both cases the 4E versions failed miserably. Bad monsters, dumbed down, and hardly relevant.

4A: Bring back interesting monster/planar creature names. while hacking out various dieties and planes, someone did away with my solars, aasimons, and devas (as they were, at least). instead we get "angel of battle", "angel of guidance", and etc. I was expecting an "angel of toiletries" to round out the lot, but I was disappointed. Who would have thought they were going to draw the line somewhere? The same goes for the devils. they used to have interesting names. Keep the game complex. you are selling to people with IQs well above 70.

5: Stop making the Forgotten realms into Krynn meets Mystara. if anyone actually wanted to read or play those settings, they would have actually sold more than 5 copies for those settings in the past two decades. No more dragonborn. No more genasi. no djinn kingdoms. the realms were fantastic enough as it was, and if people wanted adventure with planar creatures there were planes to travel to. The planes did not have to come to the realms - people could go to the planes from the realms. That was the whole idea.

5A: The spell plague. Get rid of this entirely. Plaguetouched people were an unnecessary addition, as were the earthmotes and mystara/krynn additions that came with them. All of these things were available to writers and players, but they actually had to find means to insert them into a story through creative processes like plot devices or, barring that, planar travel. it smacks of laziness to drop them on the realms. were the planes too inaccessible before? Hardly.

6: BRING BACK THE FORGOTTEN REALMS LOGO. when did forgotten realms become dungeons and dragons? I thought FR carried D&D. Brand yourself if you want to sell. No one buys generic D&D.

Maybe this wasn't so concise, but I did cut it short for the sake of reading in one sitting. There is a lot more to request fixes for, but the above ones are high on the list of unforgivable sins committed in 4E. I may not be a gamer, but I have been reading and collecting FR for nearly twenty years, and that would be just over 2/3 of my life. I can say that I will have no interest in buying 5E any more than I had in 4E if the essentials are not changed, and I am less likely to be fooled into buying even a few novels and sourcebooks. Sheer curiosity might have been the motive last time, but I am apt to be a suspicious consumer moving onto 5E.

Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3166 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2012 :  17:43:06  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Point by point:

1. I agree, to a degree. I've always seen planar going-ons as more abstract, so changing the "shape" of the cosmology from a wheel, to a tree, to a mish-mosh soup never bothered me any, so long as things were still more or less consistent between the different incarnations of them. 4e has gone into some detail about the planes, what's where, etc. A bit of it doesn't mesh with previous lore, and I'd prefer to see those incongruities rectified. The Plane of Fire could stay a subrealm within a Elemental Chaos Plane, for example, but things that were distinct and explained in the Plane of Fire that seemingly disappeared from it in 4e information, I'd like that type of stuff restored.

2. Yes, agreed. I think that a lot of the fixing, as you say, that it needs would be covered by giving us more information. I'm resigned to the fact that half of the Seldarine aren't actually Elven deities, and don't think that this is going to be changed in the future. All those members that have simply fallen off the face of the earth and haven't been mentioned (along with scores of other deities), those entities need to be covered in some way.

3. I don't think the complexity of things have changed all that much. Complexity still exists. I think the problem lies with detailing and highlighting it. A better job needs to be done there.

4. , 5., 6. Don't necessarily agree or disagree, and the subject matter really doesn't resonate with me, the exception being getting rid of the Spellplague. It's already done, and you can't just magically hand wave away such a huge event without pissing off a bunch of designers/authors/fans, while at the same time making those who were estranged by it say to themselves, "Gee, if they can get rid of that that easily, they can get rid of anything. Why bother caring?"

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6618 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2012 :  18:09:44  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
More to the point, the game designers and FR authors who work for WotC (at least from time to time) have made it very clear that they do not intend to retcon the retcon or move backwards - the Spellplague is now considered a pivotal part of the official Realms canon which, like it or not, won't be revoked or retracted.

That being said, many efforts have been made to alleviate or better explain the impact on the Realms during that era. And many people expect the "missing" years from the timejump will be populated with new lore.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 30 Apr 2012 18:15:10
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2012 :  18:23:37  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What they have done is set themselves up a very tough obstacle, but its not insurmountable. Personaly, I would have taken the coward's way out and back-peddled, but I guess they are made of tougher stuff then that, and insist on fighting a brutal, up-hill battle.

What this means is that the 5e material doesn't have to be good, it has to be freakin' AMAZING, otherwise we will just walk away from it, as we did with 4e. Had they gone for a reset, 'good' would have been adequate.

I admire their tenacity, and look forward to being 'wowed'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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vallon
Seeker

USA
31 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2012 :  19:35:25  Show Profile Send vallon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting thoughts. It always seemed to me that 4E was about garnering more sales for the Realms, which is understandable. However, I've always believed that any problems in the sales area had far more to do with marketing insufficiences than any intrinsic flaws with the setting that needed to be fixed..
There will always be sales for books and products by Greenwood, RAS, Erik deBie and Richard Lee Byers (who could write about the phonebook and make it interesting), etc. But the Realms itself (just look at the Wizard's website) always seems to be treated as an under-valued spin-off of D&D, and is promoted accordingly.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3166 Posts

Posted - 01 May 2012 :  00:51:56  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

What this means is that the 5e material doesn't have to be good, it has to be freakin' AMAZING, otherwise we will just walk away from it, as we did with 4e.

-Yeah, I recently became active here again because I heard that 5e was being developed and what was going on had my interest. More so the Forgotten Realms than the 5e rules themselves, if the product is ho hum, I'll go back to indifference once more, focusing more of my online time to sports and blogging again.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium

Edited by - Lord Karsus on 01 May 2012 00:52:10
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe

USA
473 Posts

Posted - 01 May 2012 :  05:33:17  Show Profile  Visit Old Man Harpell's Homepage Send Old Man Harpell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

What this means is that the 5e material doesn't have to be good, it has to be freakin' AMAZING, otherwise we will just walk away from it, as we did with 4e.

-Yeah, I recently became active here again because I heard that 5e was being developed and what was going on had my interest. More so the Forgotten Realms than the 5e rules themselves, if the product is ho hum, I'll go back to indifference once more, focusing more of my online time to sports and blogging again.


Also agree with Markus - I am apparently a bit less optimistic than he is, however. I am pretty much resigned to not being 'wowed', because I have this nagging feeling that the people working on it are going to be folks who don't love, or at least 'get', the Realms. I hope I'm wrong, really really wrong...but the half-empty glass tipped over for me a while ago.

And welcome to Candlekeep, antilochus. We're not always this gloomy, really.

- OMH
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1950 Posts

Posted - 01 May 2012 :  13:23:06  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Indeed, be welcome, antilochus.

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 01 May 2012 :  16:07:39  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Same here - we are ornery, but our bark is worse then our bite. Welcome to Candlekeep.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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vallon
Seeker

USA
31 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2012 :  14:44:06  Show Profile Send vallon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, welcome to the 'Keep, antilochus! And don't let these guys fool you--they're sweethearts, and it's been a continuing pleasure to experience the awesome Realms knowledge of these and so many others on this site. Now as for The Sage and Wooly, however...
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31234 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2012 :  18:42:16  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by vallon

Yes, welcome to the 'Keep, antilochus! And don't let these guys fool you--they're sweethearts, and it's been a continuing pleasure to experience the awesome Realms knowledge of these and so many others on this site. Now as for The Sage and Wooly, however...



Hey, I'm the nicest guy around! Just ask me, I'll tell you how much of a nice guy I am!

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Varl
Learned Scribe

USA
259 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2012 :  22:38:19  Show Profile Send Varl a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Also agree with Markus - I am apparently a bit less optimistic than he is, however. I am pretty much resigned to not being 'wowed', because I have this nagging feeling that the people working on it are going to be folks who don't love, or at least 'get', the Realms. I hope I'm wrong, really really wrong...but the half-empty glass tipped over for me a while ago.


Question I have is who gets to be the guinea pig and purchase it? If you buy in, and then walk away after reading it not liking what you see, it's already too late to walk away.

Will there be teasers and lures dangled? Will they provide the buyers with enough detail on systems to determine if purchase is worth it? Or will they merely entice you with the smell of quality only to find the taste bland? We'll see.

"Intimidation is a weapon of the Legion. Intelligence is not." -Illidan Stormrage
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Therise
Master of Realmslore

1265 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2012 :  22:53:41  Show Profile Send Therise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not to be a wet blanket, but do we have -any- indication WotC is working on a 5E Realms?

Yes, there's the upcoming Greenwood's Realms thing, but that's not 5E. Is there even a writing team selected? A placeholder at Amazon? Anything?

Honestly, I'm not sure it's even planned yet. The only thing I am certain about is that I don't want Cordell involved. At all.

4E Realms was awful, but it's water under the Boareskyr Bridge. Let's make 5E Realms truly shine!
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2012 :  22:55:49  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I will buy Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Realms (man, thats a mouthful!), regardless. I will also buy other titles I think might interest me, dependent on subject-matter.

Not sure if I will buy the 5eFR guide until I know more. I only purchased two 4e books (one really - my son bought the other), and neither was the 4eFR campaign guide. Hopefully we will have some pre-release info, and if not, I will wait until I see what others had to say.

I do plan to buy novels on a regular basis again. Not gonna focus on FR though... I never did before. I have to rebuild my library, so FR novels will be just some of what I will purchase down the road (and I don't plan to re-buy too much of what I lost - I want new stuff now).
quote:
Originally posted by Therise

Not to be a wet blanket, but do we have -any- indication WotC is working on a 5E Realms?
I think that IS the first of the 5e-style setting books.

They plan to make them edition-neutral, so they need not wait until 5e is released for that. We will probably be getting that format from now on (from what I'm hearing).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 02 May 2012 22:58:11
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Therise
Master of Realmslore

1265 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2012 :  23:05:15  Show Profile Send Therise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I will buy Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Realms...


I -might- buy this, if it's truly excellent and I've had a chance to peruse it. If it's average, it stays on the shelf.

My days of buying Realms products sight-unseen ended years ago. IMO WotC damaged its reputation badly with 4E Realms, and they need to earn my trust again.

4E Realms was awful, but it's water under the Boareskyr Bridge. Let's make 5E Realms truly shine!
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Therise
Master of Realmslore

1265 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2012 :  23:07:54  Show Profile Send Therise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think that IS the first of the 5e-style setting books.


I'm doubtful. My impression is that it's a stand-alone product.


4E Realms was awful, but it's water under the Boareskyr Bridge. Let's make 5E Realms truly shine!
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2012 :  23:19:05  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought The Hooded One left a note somewhere around here that Ed's been super-busy working on Realms-related stuff and he's excited about what's coming down the pipe.

Not sure how much of that is 5E or if it's just filler until the next editon is released.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2012 :  23:30:12  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been thinking on this for a few days now...getting through the initial shock and all...

My feelings are this:

I think I would REALLY enjoy the Forgotten Realms again if they set it even farther in the future.

I would like to see what Ed can create NEW AGAIN in the Forgotten Realms. Not directly connected to ANYTHING that is currently in the works.

I think it would be really cool...Ed would basically get to create a whole new Forgotten Realms! Essentially the Greater Geography would be the same. Some things would have distant attachment to the past, but by jumping far into the future, all things would be new!

Think of it: Cormyr is a "Forgotten Kingdom" inhabited by dangerous orcs and goblins in maze-like thousand year old forests...how many dungeons could be explored there that used to be great cities!

I think I could get on board with something like that. Trying to "fix" everything is just a huge headache!

They could even sell it in a Grey Box...

As for their Novel Lines, they could slowly bring them to a close; with no conflicting "lore" from the setting to worry about.

Honestly, how many more damn novels about Drizzt can be made? Cool character? Yes...but apparently so was Harry Potter.

Giving writers a fresh slate to write upon would be wonderful too.

The Forgotten Realms needs to perhaps be a little "forgotten" to actually survive. Just my opinion...as scattered and such as it is.

AD&D for me!
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31234 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2012 :  00:08:56  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I will buy a 5E FR campaign setting.

However... If everything I hear about it, before getting the chance to buy it, makes me leary, then I'll do like I did with the 4E FRCG: buy it on the cheap, on eBay, whenever it's convenient (and then not read it for months).

If the lead-in stuff and previews make it sound amazing, however, I'll be getting it from my FLGS the day it releases -- possibly even on my lunch break. I used to do that with FR releases, back in 3E.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 03 May 2012 00:10:28
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2012 :  00:10:05  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden

I would like to see what Ed can create NEW AGAIN in the Forgotten Realms. Not directly connected to ANYTHING that is currently in the works.
Wow... hadn't though of that.

That.... could.. work..

But wouldn't that be an epic waste? The man has tons of unpublished material for the 1e/2e/3e Realms.

Of course, they could just take all of that and apply it to some future incarnation of the Realms.

Like I said, it could work, but I'm not to sure how I feel about that. At that point, why even stick with the Realms at all?

@Jeremy & Therise - from what I gather, from just a little 'dipping' into the WotC boards earlier today, their products schedules have been altered/rearranged, with FR as a focus, so it seems to me they are already moving forward with the "open to all eras" and the 'edition neutral' things as we speak.

I have a feeling EGPEFR (Eggpeffer!!!) will be a bridge product, similar to what was done with the GHotR. Just a hunch is all.

You will also recall that several 3e tomes (Book of Nine Swords, MM4 & 5, etc) were 'precursors' to 4e, so I am expecting this approach again as well (making all products moving forward more like what they eventually intend).

This is a unique situation - only the rules needs the 'fanfare release'. The 'edition neutral' approach SHOULD start as soon as possible, so we don't get too much all at once. For the first time, its actually beneficial to space them out - we can ease into it, and see if its a good fit.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 03 May 2012 00:12:18
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Nilus Reynard
Learned Scribe

Canada
107 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2012 :  01:04:33  Show Profile Send Nilus Reynard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden


I think I would REALLY enjoy the Forgotten Realms again if they set it even farther in the future.


When you say "even farther in the future" do you mean another time jump where a century of time gets left out? If they pull something like that again they have lost me as a customer forever.

Nilus Reynard
Doom Master of Beshaba, Hand of Despair.
P21 Hm CN
(2nd Edition AD&D)
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
3593 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2012 :  01:24:01  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nilus Reynard

quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden


I think I would REALLY enjoy the Forgotten Realms again if they set it even farther in the future.


When you say "even farther in the future" do you mean another time jump where a century of time gets left out? If they pull something like that again they have lost me as a customer forever.



I am baffled as to why?

Why would you cease to enjoy the Forgotten Realms? I mean, have you ever played a Forgotten Realms game set in the past? Why can't anyone envision playing one in the future?

It wasn't the advance in years that threw me with 4e...it was the widespread geographical destruction. The passing of time doesn't bother me as much as sweeping calamity.

Why do you think you wouldn't enjoy a Forgotten Realms set in 2345 Dale Reckoning? A time when the Forgotten Realms is new all over again...just like when it first came out?

Did you not like the Forgotten Realms set in 13xx DR; even though 20,000+ years of history had already occured that you hadn't been able to take part in as a player?

AD&D for me!
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Nilus Reynard
Learned Scribe

Canada
107 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2012 :  01:39:59  Show Profile Send Nilus Reynard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do not like time jumps in any setting.

The time jump, especially if its 100 years or more, is enough time for almost all of the well known (and "loved") characters to have died. That is what kept me reading the novels, finding out what was going to happen with my favorire realms personalities. I already did that once, learning that almost all of my favorites were gone. Not doing it again.

In my opinion, a time jump is simply a lazy way to wipe the slate clean & start over again. Not something that I am interested in or impressed by.

Nilus Reynard
Doom Master of Beshaba, Hand of Despair.
P21 Hm CN
(2nd Edition AD&D)

Edited by - Nilus Reynard on 03 May 2012 01:41:11
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31691 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2012 :  01:45:06  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by vallon

Yes, welcome to the 'Keep, antilochus! And don't let these guys fool you--they're sweethearts, and it's been a continuing pleasure to experience the awesome Realms knowledge of these and so many others on this site. Now as for The Sage and Wooly, however...



Hey, I'm the nicest guy around! Just ask me, I'll tell you how much of a nice guy I am!

I *can* be nice, but it'll have to wait until it comes up on my "To-Do" list.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31691 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2012 :  01:47:33  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I will buy a 5E FR campaign setting.

However... If everything I hear about it, before getting the chance to buy it, makes me leary, then I'll do like I did with the 4E FRCG: buy it on the cheap, on eBay, whenever it's convenient (and then not read it for months).

If the lead-in stuff and previews make it sound amazing, however, I'll be getting it from my FLGS the day it releases -- possibly even on my lunch break. I used to do that with FR releases, back in 3E.

I'm too invested in the Realms -- after twenty years -- not to buy anything with a FORGOTTEN REALMS theme.

That being said, what I choose to borrow from a future campaign setting for my own Realms, depends entirely on just how I can shape the new lore with my own lore that has been tweaked and tinkered with since I first started fleshing out my own campaign in 1987.

So, really, and ultimately, what comes about as a result of a 5e setting, for me, is just as important as that of any previous edition.

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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3496 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2012 :  02:10:46  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There shouldn't be an emphasis on any timeline or 'campaign date' with D&D:Next rendition of the Forgotten Realms. For example, when Ed Greenwood Presents the Forgotten Realms book comes out, I have this overwhelming feeling that it won't be date specific, just pure Realmslore that can be used in ANY era. From some examples of his Eye on the Realms articles in Dragon/Dungeon the last few years, I'd say 90% of them can be used in almost any era or, exchange Spellplague with Time of Troubles, Wild Magic area, Shadow-Weave Magic area, etc...and there's a good chance it works.

So if this is a prelude for what we're to expect with FR products in the future D&D:Next edition, then I think that's a great start.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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