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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Apr 2012 : 19:34:48
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I don't recall hearing about Shoon/Zallanora since Lands of Intrigue and (if I recall correctly) a minor cameo in Baldur's Gate II. Shoon would be one of the most powerful wizards still living, having been a level 36 wizard back in 2E.
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Darsson Spellmaker
Seeker
56 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2012 : 05:23:14
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He was mentioned in one of the 3.x books, but IIRC, he was still just lurking about in the form of that poor elf girl he switched bodies with.
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"Know, O mages, that there is learning, and there is wisdom, and they are very far from being the same thing."--Azuth the High One, Utterances from the Altar: Collected Verbal Manifestations of the Divine and Most Holy Lord of Spells (holy chapbook, assembled by anonymous priests of Azuth circa 1358 DR)
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 01:17:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Veritas
I don't recall hearing about Shoon/Zallanora since Lands of Intrigue and (if I recall correctly) a minor cameo in Baldur's Gate II.
"Zallanora" was one of the high-ranking Cowled Wizards who came after you when you racked up three violations of the no-magic rule (which means they send their very best against you). I don't recall what level she was given exactly, but it was probably in the mid-twenties (since 32 was the highest that a mage could get).
Good XP, too. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 04:31:29
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Well, Shoon is hanging out in an elfgirl... So I'd say he's up to about 5'6".  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 12:43:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, Shoon is hanging out in an elfgirl... So I'd say he's up to about 5'6".
Well played good sir! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 15:33:51
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| So am I the only one who thinks he spent the first week or so alone, locked in a room... with a mirror...? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 16:46:35
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Ummm...side tracked are we?
Having a long-lived vessel now; I would say he has attempted to set in motion events and gain agents/operatives that will allow him to gain a level of comfort.
I don't think he would feel the need for conquest; but any remnants of foes he had before might have long range plans made by Shoon to have them destroyed, humbled or enslaved.
Such a powerful wizard would have limitless things they could do... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 18:02:46
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But he was also a ruler of an empire - I don't think someone like that would just give up on ruling large groups of people - that is a very basic personality trait.
However, I think he is wise enough to make very long-range plans, which could mean he is only 'showing his hand' around the time of the 4e era.
If he didn't want to 'mess with' the Genasi Kingdoms on his turf, maybe he went elsewhere with similar cultures - the Shining Waters, or even Zakhara. On the other hand, he may have found a way to transfer his consciousness to a dragon, and is now ruling Murghom or Semphar.
Or he could be playing on his Elfiness ATM, and building an Eladrin following somewhere (wouldn't it be ironic if he were in control of a group of Eldreth veluuthra?) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 18:38:34
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I can agree that he might want to rule...but not by conquest.
Such a powerful wizard would have no need to conquer nations when he only has to control the leaders of nations.
Much more subtle would be the desire to take Tethyr in my opinion. His former capital of Shoonach sat in that area...not in Calimshan.
For all I've read about Shoon VII, I never picked him to be a conquerer...he inherited an empire; and his pride would not allow him to fail where others before him had succeeded.
So to me, he may have initiated steps to control more so than be the front man of any operation that could cause adventurers to come calling.
Seriously though, someone THAT powerful with a lifespan of hundreds of years to spare has many options. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 19:50:43
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Unofficial musings (and solely my own):
He's probably no longer on Faerun if
A)you take the 4th Ed canon (Returned Abeir et al) into account with
B) my long-term plans (which may or may not have ever gone into play) for the character. I'd planned to ship him off to the Maztican continent to slowly but surely conquer without as much interference from gods or mortals. As that chunk of land is elsewhere, that'd be where I'd be writing Shoon/Zallanora stuff were it up to me.
Even so, any such plans of his/hers would only have become even mildly noticeable in current FR canon/timelines because he can afford to take the long view and only move/manipulate a pawn or two every few years and look at making major (for him and his covert plans) moves every fifty to 75 years or so--and even then these would not be obvious moves to anyone who doesn't operate in centuries of planning/thinking.
As always, your plans and your mileage and usage may vary; (s)he is one of the better tools I left lying in the sandbox for GMs with which to play. Strangely, not nearly as many people have twigged to just how much potential for story (and chaos and blood and thunder and everything in between) lies in the ruins of Shoonach; was I too circumspect with the story nuggets and plot possibilities there, or what?
Steven
sowing a few seeds to perhaps turn over some old idea-compost that's been laying fallow since 1998 or so..... |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 19:57:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Strangely, not nearly as many people have twigged to just how much potential for story (and chaos and blood and thunder and everything in between) lies in the ruins of Shoonach;
That's just great. 
As if I didn't have enough books on the Interesting Things to Read When I Have Some Free Time pile already.
<makes note to read more about Shoonach>
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 20:34:32
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Read 'all things Schend' - you'll be doing yourself (and your players) a great favor. 
As for the Shoon/Maztica thing, Steven - I had never in my wildest imaginings thought to send him there, but it does make some sense (given the interest in the 'True World' by the Lands of Intrigue). I like it! Him being undead, and inside an Elf girl (man does that sound wrong), we could take a nice chunk of the deeper jungle and turn it into something akin to the Aerenal (from Eberron) in 4e (or 5e). Undying Elves are pretty sweet - a refreshing change from the over-used Drow.
I say "in 4e" because I (and Brian James, amongst others) have figured-out the text regarding the continent-swap is just ambiguous enough to have left a nice chunk of Maztica behind (like the Lopango or Poscadar regions... and Poscadar had elves), or conversely, the new continent of Returned Abeir actually appeared more north (the exact wording in the 4e FRCG seems to imply just that), leaving most of Maztica intact.
Or you could just do what I hope they do in 5e - merge Maztica with Laerakond - I think that would be the best of all solutions. No reason why the various cities and racial groups of returned Abeir can't be 'meso-American' in appearance (not just the people - the fashion and architecture as well). Laerakond may have been what Maztica would have become, if the Sundering did not happen. Heck, take the ill-received Map Folio II (which I happened to have liked) and use that in the new Maztica/Laerakond amalgam - the feel of those maps are PERFECT (and quite lovely). Use the main city as Tarmalune, and its pure win (if they/you do an amalgam).
A Meso-America like region, with a fantasy twist (races & monsters), and ruled by dragon-kings? How could you go wrong? Ed even said RE was supposed to have a lot more forest/wilderness to it - I think jungles would be a perfect fit. Not to mention the Maztican pantheon shoe-horns nicely with the draconic one. This would take 'human sacrifice' to whole 'nother level (fed live to dragons).
And then you have Shoon in the deep jungle, posing as a Tlazolteotl-like figure (using the body of the elf), ruling a dark city-state of undying servants; give the place Stygia-like feel, but with an Aztec vibe (rather then Egyptian). Ohhh.. and throw-in some of those ugly little undead pygmyies from Mystara (Topi). They were also used in the Diablo II (Kurast region) - very creepy/cool. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Apr 2012 20:51:09 |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2012 : 22:45:39
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I did something similar to what Steven suggested. My Shoon VII has a great interest in Maztica and the "True World" because it is outside the influence of the usual power groups.
Although, where I differed is that he took a much heavier hand in affairs. He controls the entire Council of Six of Amn. He's pressed them into his service secretly and individually, the others aren't aware that each of them serve some mysterious wizard. (They are all committing treason, and would be executed as per the law.)
"Zallanora" has a high ranking position among the Cowled Wizards, but she doesn't lead them. No one truly realizes the scope of her power; they've only seen a fraction of what she can do.
The leader of the Cowled Wizards secretly sits on the Council of Six, and therefore unknowingly serves "Zallanora" / Shoon VII. My Cowled Wizards are portrayed similarly as those in Baldur's Gate II.
Shoon uses magic to disguise his appearance, and the only time he appears as Zallanora is among the Cowled Wizards. He has a number of personas that he has adopted. One is a reclusive elderly woman, the widow of one of Amn's most wealthy merchants. She spends most of her time on her estate on the shores of Lake Esmel, about a day and a half's ride from Esmeltaran. He killed her about two years after being freed and assumed her identity. Depending on the timeline, he's likely shed the identity and passed it on to one of the old woman's "relatives." (She didn't have any.) Thus, it's likely that he's assumed a new personality who controls the fortune now - I'd make her out to be a reclusive and devout follower of Ilmater or some other equally good and charitable deity.
He's using the funds from this family to fund his ambitions in the "True World."
Shoon has also seized control of the Twisted Rune, and is using them to influence activities throughout the Lands of Intrigue.
No one knows that Shoon VII has been freed. He's assumed multiple identities. The only being that knows the truth is Iryklathagra "Sharpfangs"; who Shoon VII eventually slew and reanimated as a Dracolich. He holds Sharpfangs phylactery and has imprisoned the Dracolich within his secret domain.
His secret domain is a hollow grain of sand expanded greatly through the use of extra-dimensional space. The grain of sand is located somewhere within the Calim Desert. You can only gain access through magical means of teleportation, and even then you must possess a special wardstone. There are numerous wards and protections designed for numerous contingencies. Someone teleporting into the lair without the wardstone would be magically imprisoned within a special type of stasis field. Anytime something enters the lair Shoon VII is immediately alerted magically, meaning that if he wasn't expecting you to arrive - you can probably count how long it's going to take him to show up, magic at the ready, in minutes. (Likely shortly after Sharpfangs has engaged you in battle.)
There are only a handful of wardstones in existence. Shoon himself, obviously, has one. The others are in the hands of the leaders of the Twisted Rune.
Basically, if there is a major event happening in the Lands of Intrigue you can pretty much bet that Shoon VII indirectly has a finger in that pie.
If for some reason my Shoon VII were to be discovered, or his plans begin to unravel, he isn't afraid to abandon whatever he is working on and start anew. He isn't afraid to get rid of evidence, including formally trusted servants.
There are numerous ways someone might discover him. 1. Becoming suspicious of the wealthy reclusive merchant woman who holds a great deal of influence within the True World. 2. Engaging in battle with the Twisted Rune, uncovering that they serve a powerful and mysterious wizard. 3. Investigating the Council of Six or the Cowled Wizards, which could uncover some disturbing truths. (One would likely lead to the investigation of the other.)
If Shoon were forced to abandon his plans and start fresh, it means that someone has made a very, very, powerful enemy. Shoon is unlikely to directly confront his enemies unless he's certain of absolute and total victory. (Which means killing them outright, often taking them by surprise.) He's also not afraid to wait to take his revenge; he's very patient.
He's not a dumb mustache twirling villain. His moves are deliberate and calculated. If he were to successfully create a new empire in the "True World" (his ultimate long term goal), he wouldn't rule it directly, but rather rule it behind the scenes. He's the power behind the throne kind of guy; he has no interest in running day-to-day affairs. Think Gargauth, not Bane.
This is how I set him up in my Realms, at least. The canon in Lands of Intrigue pretty much hinted at the fact that Shoon VII was going to seize control of the Rune...
"...the Rune's plans for conquest interfere with his own. Should he track down a ruling member of this cabal of liches, he will offer a simple choice: Join me so we may rule the Rune together, or be destroyed." - The Lands of Intrigue |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 01:28:04
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I was always intrigued that such a powerful figure had so few references. Thanks Steven and everyone for the great responses.
I'm just sorry that my poor Bhaalspawn did away with "Zallanora" a few dozen times. ([s]he won't dare come back again  ) |
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Thieran
Learned Scribe
Germany
293 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 08:54:13
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| Another thank you from me, Mr Schend. I have been intrigued by Shoonach from the first time I read about it in your intriguing 2E publications, and I have hungrily consumed any tidbits of lore about it ever since. |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 14:07:57
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| The real question is: what isn't he up to. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 18:08:35
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| Actually, I feel this thread does raise the open question about how Schoon feels about being his new gender. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 18:28:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
The real question is: what isn't he up to.
Well, it's safe to assume he's not trying to corner the market for pizza delivery in Shadowdale. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 21:23:12
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| But can you be sure? |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 21:33:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Veritas
Actually, I feel this thread does raise the open question about how Schoon feels about being his new gender.
I'm guessing it's not a factor for him. If it was, he surely has the magical oomph to hop into a male body. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 21:52:06
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I like the idea of him Taking Over the Twisted Rune - thats a very good path for them to bring him down 4e/5e. I have to wonder what would happen if he came up against similar baddies - Szass Tam, the Emminance of Araunt, Aumvor, Tan Chin, or even Larloch. I can definitely see him taking over the Rune, and then Larloch using him (and vice-versa) to further their own goals. Perhaps the EoA is ruled by a council of uber-liches, and all of these guys would be in that group instead.
quote:
From Pg.252 of the 4e FRCG -
Streetwise DC 40: The Eminence is not friendly with other groups, cults, or nations of undead. It was ascendant in Abeir but has made contact during the last decade with Faerūn. Now Araunt is aware of such groups as the Twisted Rune, the Cult of the Dragon, and Thay. Since then, the secret kingdom has begun a slow campaign to bring all of these, even Thay, into Araunt. More than one skirmish has already been fought.
Interesting, especially in-light of some stuff discussed in other threads (a Thay/Araunt alliance seems highly unlikely, in lieu of that).
quote:
Originally posted by Thieran
Another thank you from me, Mr Schend. I have been intrigued by Shoonach from the first time I read about it in your intriguing 2E publications, and I have hungrily consumed any tidbits of lore about it ever since.
The Shoonach map was also one of the best pieces of art in 2e, and is oft over-looked and under-appreciated. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Apr 2012 21:52:41 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 22:11:29
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Shoonach was THE PLACE for me to send my group of level 15+ adventurers when 3.0/3.5 came out. We had an awesome time DMing it!
Shoon VII (as I ran him) never came into contact with the party; but was highly interested in the treasures of his former capital. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 22:47:59
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Why are liches ALWAYS so damn lazy? Not enough vitamins in their diet?
Seriously, though - as soon as someone digs up a cool artifact from Nethril, or Imaskar, or Imperial Calimshan, etc, etc... some lich or other comes a-knocking. They ALL seem highly interested in stuff from their past, but none of them bother looking for it themselves. You figure these guys at least have memories of the place, if not actual maps - they should know right where to look for the best 'phat lewtz'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 22:55:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Why are liches ALWAYS so damn lazy? Not enough vitamins in their diet?
Seriously, though - as soon as someone digs up a cool artifact from Nethril, or Imaskar, or Imperial Calimshan, etc, etc... some lich or other comes a-knocking. They ALL seem highly interested in stuff from their past, but none of them bother looking for it themselves. You figure these guys at least have memories of the place, if not actual maps - they should know right where to look for the best 'phat lewtz'.
That is what I'm saying; while they never came into contact with Shoon VII, he was always one step ahead of them in recovering things they wanted in most things...but a few rare times they defeated his agents in his old capital.
In fact, they actually fought a Simulacrum of Shoon VII without realizing who it was representing.
They couldn't pierce his layers of obfuscation or labyrinth of lies...and eventually they left Shoonach really angry because they couldn't seem to find anything worth being there for. One of them even said (paraphrased): "We would be better off in Myth Drannor!" |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2012 : 23:27:53
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I am almost thinking that there should be some sort of mechanic to go with this recurring set of circumstances.
Perhaps there is something about the proximity of a lich to his 'beginnings' that acts as weakness of some sort? Mechanically speaking, this would be like giving +1 modifiers to his adversaries, or he himself getting -1 (to all rolls) when in the vicinity of his 'creation'?
I once had a chart that allowed priest-powers to scale with proximity to certain things (shrines, major centers of worship, holy relics, etc) - if I still had it, I think I could backwards-engineer it for lich vulnerabilities. I have to play with the concept - it seems to work well in-theory, with liches sort-of being the antithesis to 'all things holy'.
I am not sure I would want this to be official lore - more like a mental exercise that would explain why liches almost never go looking for their own stuff. It could be as simple as their phylactory not functioning properly if the lich is within a certain proximity of the pylactory's creation-point. Fear of 'final death' would keep them away, but I'd still want some sort of logic behind such an arbitrary limitation.
It also wouldn't really apply to Larloch - his enclave crashed somewhere around Narfell, IIRC. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Apr 2012 23:29:10 |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2012 : 05:18:09
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We seem to forget about poor Zallanora.
Has she gone completely insane yet? How has demilichdom been treating the young elf? |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2012 : 10:48:17
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She is/has probably gone mad already. Information in 3e/3.5e states that she is slowly losing her mind with Shoon visiting the place where he keeps the Tome of the Unicorn(her prison).
Though with 4e she may have escaped due to the Spellplague but then again that depends on the DM and developers. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2012 : 18:23:35
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I would make her a chosen of Lurue, and since in 4e Chosen = Demigod (Exarch), she should be able to create a single Avatar, which should also look like a unicorn (keeping with the theme, here).
However, this would have occurred during the period she was loosing her mind (Lurue took pity on her?), so she is not a carbon-copy of Lurue, but rather, represents Wild Magic (which is prevalent post-Spellplague*), and is quite mad (like Halaster, she has her lucid moments).
The other way to go with it is to have her become a creature of Shar. I don't personally like that (too much is blamed on Shar these days), but it would allow her to take the cool form of a black unicorn - almost like an anti-Lurue.
Or, the tome itself was stolen and is now in the safe-keeping of Candlekeep, and she appears as a 'gaurdian spirit' in Unicorn form.
All homebrew, of course - just the way I might have spun things (had I run a 4era game). I hate the idea she is still trapped in that book (and I normally hate all elves, but she's just a victim here). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2012 : 11:01:44
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| True, but if she ever got loose, mastering her new demilich abilities should be top prority. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2012 : 13:20:22
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Why do so many think she would have the power of a demi-lich?
A demi-lich can trap the life force of an individual in one of its "teeth" and that person is simply doomed to oblivion.
I think she is simply gone after so long. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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What is Shoon VII up to?
