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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Mar 2012 : 22:36:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn
quote:
Originally posted by Apex
Yeah, one could see WoTC using the sales of this as a "feeler" for a potential reset back towards the OGB. After spending the last 10 years or so catering to younger gamers, maybe they finally realized that it is us older gamers that have the disposable income to drop on their products.
I did not mean to imply that I felt this product was a test as to whether a reset would occur. I certainly do not think that only targeting older games is a wise plan. However, appealing to more customers is always a good plan. I think that how the current published realms is presented would change. More a change in perspective like looking at the same image with sun glasses on, rather than rebooting in response to good sales. Also, I think it would have to sell very well to make any significant impact, because (rightly so) the current design team seems proud of the tones and themes they have developed.
I would be willing to say 'it depends'. They risk very little by publishing Ed's original vision as a one-off, obviously, but...
...depending on how it's presented, how much creative control Ed is given (a whole lot, it is to be hoped), how much 'improvement'  Wizbro does, and a whole host of other things, it is not wholly inconceivable that EGPEFR (I think that's the right acronym) could overshadow the official line. I am, as a guess, going to say that it will certainly be grognard-approved, and depending on how well it sells, well, hey...you never know. 
- OMH |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2012 : 23:39:21
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The word I've heard about the product is that Ed has almost complete editorial control over its contents. WotC is basically providing the copyediting, typesetting, and publishing.
I suspect there will also be some editing feedback that goes on--Ed will be the first to tell you (as will I) that all professional writers need an editor--but as far as I know, they aren't nerfing, developing, or censoring anything Ed writes without his 100% agreement.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2012 : 23:42:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
The word I've heard about the product is that Ed has almost complete editorial control over its contents. WotC is basically providing the copyediting, typesetting, and publishing.
I suspect there will also be some editing feedback that goes on--Ed will be the first to tell you (as will I) that all professional writers need an editor--but as far as I know, they aren't nerfing, developing, or censoring anything Ed writes without his 100% agreement.
Cheers
Good to know. Ed's world-buildingwork deserves to shine in its fullest form. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2012 : 23:43:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
--Ed will be the first to tell you (as will I) that all professional writers need an editor--
And that entity will have to be as unfeeling and inexorable as the Modron, not to mention as sharp-eyed and intuitive as an Eladrin and as far-sighted and wise as the Lords of Hosts in the Seven Heavens.
And if the book is good, no one will ever even notice his name, while if it's shy of perfection in any way, it will be his fault alone, for marring the perfect vision of the author.
The position is much like that of a Chief of Staff. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 00:14:54
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It will clarify the general understanding of the Realms a little -- 'companies of crazed adventurers . . . endless intrigues . . . web of alliances and enmities' -- workings and dynamics familiar to most of us, but not obvious in every sourcebook and novel. It will shift the published setting's centre of gravity somewhat closer to the underlying setting. This regardless of how much material in it is compatible with the published material and how much different (I'm curious about that, but only curious), or of canon niceties in general.
Follow-ups may be planned already, and the better the book sells the more likely they become. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 00:33:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Follow-ups may be planned already, and the better the book sells the more likely they become.
Just so.
Anyone who likes the idea of more Ed-lore, vote with your wallet. It may sometimes feel like it's a thankless job and the bad taste of everyone else is driving all the good stuff away, but it's the best we can do. Happily, there is a business opportunity in catering to the small and esoteric, just as there is in targeting the biggest market. While the financial rewards are lower, the operating costs of advertising and marketing may also turn out to be compensatingly low and the customer loyalty is hopefully something to rely on. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 00:40:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
It might even be fairly generic. He could show us the direction of one or more of his big campaigns. Or more than one, like they did a while back in Dungeon magazine with their adventure paths.
No telling until it actually hits the stands, I guess.
-Going into this thread and finding out generically what this book is, I envisioned the Reader's Guide to R.A. Salvatore's The Legend of Drizzt. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 00:44:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-No, the video games aren't canon.
There have been "parts" of certain Realms CRPGs have been made canon, like the Bhaalspawn concept, the Plague of Neverwinter, and Undrentide.
But it's difficult to make the actual games themselves canon, because most of them, like the Baldur's Gate series, offer varied endings, which can be difficult to reconcile with existing Realmslore. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 00:47:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
The word I've heard about the product is that Ed has almost complete editorial control over its contents. WotC is basically providing the copyediting, typesetting, and publishing.
Pretty much.
I very much suspect that this product will ultimately include something similar -- in the scope of content -- to the Ed-lore we've already had the lucky pleasure of reading here at Candlekeep over the last eight years, via the yearly "Questions for Ed Greenwood" scroll. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 01:01:41
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-No, the video games aren't canon.
There have been "parts" of certain Realms CRPGs have been made canon, like the Bhaalspawn concept, the Plague of Neverwinter, and Undrentide.
-Only when included in canon products, though. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 01:05:02
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| Well, I would've assumed that was obvious, since I said "have been made canon," and it's accepted that the Wizards' products carrying the FORGOTTEN REALMS label, are canon products. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 10:32:03
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As I said before I think its best to leave this as an interesting side element. Any support should mainly be on-line articles showing how to use the new rules with the Realms found in this book and how some of the differences can be included in the post-spellplauge era.
Now if it where to be a huge success, there might be further volumes, but in some ways I hope this doesn't happen. This would lead to the multiple timeline and never ending arguments. And would it then be possible to keep wholly to the old Greenwood Realms? I don't think some people realise how much have been changed since then and how much would disappear in the form known from later products that are now taken for granted. I would be quite happy, but I suspect a very small minority would agree with me. Different Netheril, different Chosen, different Drow, gods, no Karsus, whole countries with a far different feel, Npc's missing? Even Ed has had a hand in changing elements over time, which version would people see? |
No Canon, more stories, more Realms. |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 13:35:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Now if it where to be a huge success, there might be further volumes, but in some ways I hope this doesn't happen. This would lead to the multiple timeline and never ending arguments. And would it then be possible to keep wholly to the old Greenwood Realms?
Sorry mind going haywire, can't comprehend, starting to shut down.......
You don't want any more volumes from the pen of Ed detailing the Realms, even though they will be edition neutral and chock full of lore?
Multiple timelines? arguments? hmmm I think we already have that, I'll gladly take the whole 750 volume set from Ed thanks and ignore all the snipping and "thats not in my realms" etc because at the end of the day no one runs a completely canon realms game, because as soon as you introduce one new NPC it is no longer canon and the timeline diverges from the static point of what ever year you are starting from.
This is a must but book for me, sight unseen, pre-ordered and am wanting it NOW
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 13:49:19
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Now if it where to be a huge success, there might be further volumes, but in some ways I hope this doesn't happen. This would lead to the multiple timeline and never ending arguments. And would it then be possible to keep wholly to the old Greenwood Realms?
Sorry mind going haywire, can't comprehend, starting to shut down.......
You don't want any more volumes from the pen of Ed detailing the Realms, even though they will be edition neutral and chock full of lore?
Multiple timelines? arguments? hmmm I think we already have that, I'll gladly take the whole 750 volume set from Ed thanks and ignore all the snipping and "thats not in my realms" etc because at the end of the day no one runs a completely canon realms game, because as soon as you introduce one new NPC it is no longer canon and the timeline diverges from the static point of what ever year you are starting from.
This is a must but book for me, sight unseen, pre-ordered and am wanting it NOW
Cheers
Damian
What I want and what I think is a good idea are two different things. I have rambled about a project like this for years for the simple reason that I want to see the original Realms as they were before other people (for better and for worse) started to get involved. I would gladly read every note Ed has in his basement, but that is also all I want.
And the more they publish the more people will come with the GD'ned word canon again. And that is the last thing that should happen. Another problem is that if it becomes a product line in itself it will most likely become a shared project again and by that a parallel (or dominating) Realms with new editions, various contributes, rule changes and the whole thing all over again. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel; I don't like the way the timeline has been developed through the years, but I don't think it will miraculously work the second time around. And I do believe that the arguments will get even worse in such a case. |
No Canon, more stories, more Realms. |
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Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 13:54:15
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quote:
by Jorkens
And the more they publish the more people will come with the GD'ned word canon again. And that is the last thing that should happen. Another problem is that if it becomes a product line in itself it will most likely become a shared project again and by that a parallel (or dominating) Realms with new editions, various contributes, rule changes and the whole thing all over again. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel; I don't like the way the timeline has been developed through the years, but I don't think it will miraculously work the second time around. And I do believe that the arguments will get even worse in such a case.
Which is why the year is very important to me. I don't care so much if it is canon, as long as it is set in the 1350's (because that gives me the info I need to add to my OGB campaigns).
On a side note, this is why I advocate for a reset to the OGB and a more stagnant timeline with supplements released that detail areas as they were say 15 years or so prior to the OGB, like the original Moonshae supplement (one of the best and most useful IMHO), as this provides a DM with lots of detail but doesn't "force" new canon or campaign changes. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1265 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 13:56:44
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| Couldn't disagree with you more if I tried Jorkens. I hope this is a roaring success and they release Ed's entire basement. I'd buy every volume. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 14:23:17
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Comics timelines are so tangled and snarled that a psychadelic chicken on acid string couldn't make sense of it.
Yet there are comics fans and they are able to discuss their shared interest. Yes, there are arguments, of course. Being on the Internet, some of them are even gutnumbingly idiotic and heart-rendingly vicious. But that's more due to most people being slimy dingleberries than some quality inherent in a particular IP having more than one interpretation, even if some of them happen to be mutually exclusive.
There are even people with a passion for alternate history and they manage to have fascinating discussions despite the entire point of their hobby being that every counterfactual is mutually incompatible with both 'canon'* and the scenarios posited by other enthusiasts.
As I noted somewhere else, every roleplaying game ever played happens in an Alternate version of the setting used. Play a normal Realms-game, sticking to everything ever named as canon? Well, you're still playing in a Realms + the PCs (+ probably, whatever the PCs accomlish or cause to happen through their entertaining failures).
My players are determined to provide sufficient military and economic assistance to Free Unther to see it throw out the Mulhorandi and force them to sign a treaty ensuring an independent, secular government for the people of former Unther, guaranteeing them, among other things, freedom of religion and an end to slavery within their borders. Succeed or fail, my campaign will be different than the published one.
And that's what happens in every RPG. They players are playing characters that are not published by the IP owners and they are going to change things by their actions. Even if they are the world's least proactive and driven adventuring group, the Realms they play in will still have NPCs created by the DM and events resulting from perhaps desultory adventures. And a group determined to seize the world by the short hairs will change a great deal more.
I don't see how moving from one (or more) Alternate Realms per gaming group to the same state of affairs + notes from Ed Greenwood's home Alternate Realms will change much about being a Realmsfan or having conversations about the Realms. Except, you know, everything feeling hunky-dory all the time if it's as good as it could be.
*Known in this case by his pre-solo career state name, 'reality'. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 14:32:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Couldn't disagree with you more if I tried Jorkens. I hope this is a roaring success and they release Ed's entire basement. I'd buy every volume.
Which is what I said above that I wish too. But I don't want a middle road which is what I fear it will be if it becomes a product line of its own. |
No Canon, more stories, more Realms. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 14:36:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Apex
quote:
by Jorkens
And the more they publish the more people will come with the GD'ned word canon again. And that is the last thing that should happen. Another problem is that if it becomes a product line in itself it will most likely become a shared project again and by that a parallel (or dominating) Realms with new editions, various contributes, rule changes and the whole thing all over again. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel; I don't like the way the timeline has been developed through the years, but I don't think it will miraculously work the second time around. And I do believe that the arguments will get even worse in such a case.
Which is why the year is very important to me. I don't care so much if it is canon, as long as it is set in the 1350's (because that gives me the info I need to add to my OGB campaigns).
On a side note, this is why I advocate for a reset to the OGB and a more stagnant timeline with supplements released that detail areas as they were say 15 years or so prior to the OGB, like the original Moonshae supplement (one of the best and most useful IMHO), as this provides a DM with lots of detail but doesn't "force" new canon or campaign changes.
But then the problem starts. Should the Moonshaes be thrown out; Kara-tur removed? Both of these are OGB-era, but not from Ed's original Realms. What do we do with the Seven Sisters, are there seven, is one a drow? A lot of information has been added since the OGB, what direction should be taken if they start developing the setting anew? |
No Canon, more stories, more Realms. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 15:03:35
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I am going to agree 100% with Jeremy here (on this topic). I don't think they will even say whether this is 'official canon' or not - I think they plan to divest themselves of the entire notion of canon (IMO). FR is going to fall under the "canon is what YOU make it" approach.
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
My guess is that since this material will be from Ed’s home notes, we’re going to get Realmslore that was designed for the era his campaign is set in.
But much like the Volo’s Guides and most of Ed’s Eye on the Realms articles, I think this latest book will contain information that’s usable by DMs in any era of the Realms.
I’m really excited to see the information on churches, mercenaries and merchant cabals. That seems like it will be the kind of stuff that you can insert into a Realms game and have it fit pretty seamlessly.
Agreed.
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
I recall Ed mentioning somewhere that his group voted not to play through the Time of Troubles. Going to go out on a limb here and say they probably haven’t played through the return of Shade either.
Which is why I think every RSE could be a 'point of divergence' - Ed's realms split NOT so much when TSR published The Realms, but rather, when the ToT occurred (although one could argue that Vassa & Damara, and The Moonshaes, began the divergence, but I don't see that so much as a 'divergence' as it is just things changing over the course of time).
In fact, by 4e, the Moonshaes should have been reduced to its 'clusters of small islands' past-incarnation due to the continued melting of the glaciers. WotC offset this by dumping the access water into the Underdark (but the Glacier should still have been greatly reduced by 1479 DR - they really need to hire someone with a scientific background over there).
Anyhow, I still agree with you completely - Ed's Realms will be the Realms we see in the Volo's guides. RSE's don't "bring the Realms to life", its the 'small things' that do. Ed knows this - "the Devil's in the details."
EDIT: On Topic...
What will happen? The same thing that always happens - people will buy what they like. If we like this product, and it sells well, we will see more like it (and hopefully less 'cthulhuesque' clap-trap). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Mar 2012 15:05:23 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 15:22:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Couldn't disagree with you more if I tried Jorkens. I hope this is a roaring success and they release Ed's entire basement. I'd buy every volume.
Agreed.
If they follow the Volo's guide format (leaving the rules out, or tiny and self-contained), and this is done directly from Ed's home campaigns (which took place in the 'recent past' of the published realms), then this needn't be a 'separate timeline' at all - the lore would apply to all versions (and I think most of us have very different ideas about the 'correct' version).
As I said in my post above - the Moonshaes and Vassa & Damara are all reconcilable - Toril has undergone numerous 'little iceages', which freezes the 'top of the world' solid every so often, and at other times leaves it passable. The published Realms were just coming out of one of those cold periods (releasing Vassa & Damara from under the ice). In times past, the polar caps were large enough to expose large landmasses that are normally beneath sea-level (this is psuedo-canon - it is canon that many, MANY islands and peninsulas no longer exist 'today' that once existed, a mere century or so ago - see PftM and PotF - and a good deal of them disappeared as a result of severe oceanic activity). With the current 'melting' (as of the OGB), the Moonshaes should slowly revert back to their 'numerous small islands' status (as Ed had them).
Ergo, Ed's Realms and the OGB Realms are completely compatible, even if some of the things in the OGB weren't in Ed's version.
The ToT was the first real point-of-divergence.
Edit: I just had a strange train of thought - Ed never named his world Abeir-Toril. Now, we have always assumed that Toril was Ed's original... but what if Abeir was? Toril was the name of Jeff Grubb's home-campaign world - what if EVERYTHING created by other designers (not Ed) for FR was set on Toril, but Ed's world remains (nearly) pristine in some pocket dimension - the world of Abeir?
That means the 'primordials' were really TSR/WotC designers, and in his infinite wisdom, Ao hid the real world from them. 
(And if you think this was a weird side-tangent, you don't know the half of it - in a matter of seconds I developed an entire cosmology around this concept!) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Mar 2012 15:47:43 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 15:31:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
But then the problem starts. Should the Moonshaes be thrown out; Kara-tur removed? Both of these are OGB-era, but not from Ed's original Realms. What do we do with the Seven Sisters, are there seven, is one a drow? A lot of information has been added since the OGB, what direction should be taken if they start developing the setting anew?
I can see where you're coming from. I agree the danger—if that’s the right word—is there. If this book sells like hotcakes you can bet your last dollar WotC will print another one.
…with that will probably come the inevitable arguments but hey, at least people still care, right? 
(Side note: my guess is it won’t sell that well to the general gaming public, but it will sell enough for WotC to realize they have a small audience of older gamers that’s willing to pay for a second book just because they enjoy reading Realmslore. From this I hope they decide to print a second, omnibus-style sort of book; something thick as a phone book and priced around $100-$150US.)
However, the book will still be what it is: a look at Ed’s campaign. I’ve no doubt Ed’s drawn from his home game heavily for his official Realms work down the years, but this book isn’t a canon (sorry, Jorkens) sourcebook so much as it is a peek behind the (oil tanker-wide and tall as a skyscraper) curtain.
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 21:57:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Now if it where to be a huge success, there might be further volumes, but in some ways I hope this doesn't happen. This would lead to the multiple timeline and never ending arguments.
-I doubt that WotC would actively produce a line that is an 'alternative universe'.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Edit: I just had a strange train of thought - Ed never named his world Abeir-Toril. Now, we have always assumed that Toril was Ed's original... but what if Abeir was? Toril was the name of Jeff Grubb's home-campaign world - what if EVERYTHING created by other designers (not Ed) for FR was set on Toril, but Ed's world remains (nearly) pristine in some pocket dimension - the world of Abeir?
That means the 'primordials' were really TSR/WotC designers, and in his infinite wisdom, Ao hid the real world from them.
(And if you think this was a weird side-tangent, you don't know the half of it - in a matter of seconds I developed an entire cosmology around this concept!)
-The 'official story' is that Jeff Grubb added 'Abeir' to make sure that 'Abeir-Toril' was the first entry in whatever sourcebook he was working on that contained the entry in question. Seems more likely that he pulled the term out of his ass more than anything, especially because of the loosy-goosy manner that it was inserted into the setting. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 13 Mar 2012 21:59:34 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 22:50:39
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Indeed, though by throwing in the term Abeir without explanation, Jeff left a door open--an opportunity to be seized by later designers. I rather think the 4e Abeir is a neat concept, with which a lot of cool things can be done.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2012 : 23:29:14
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I'm not sure we can say that the word Abeir was added without explanation, or that it was loosely inserted into the setting...
Keep in mind, that goes back to the OGB -- the first published FR source material, outside of Dragon. The world was unnamed before that. And in the OGB, one of the many new facts shared about the setting was the name of the planet. With that in mind, how is adding a name done loosely? And why is an explanation needed for saying "Oh, and this is the name of the world"? |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 01:07:27
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We know Jeff added the prefix "Abeir" to the world name of "Toril" in order to bump up the entry for the planet to the start of the alphabetical listings in the Ol' Grey Box.
So while that isn't necessarily "the" explanation for the name, it is "a" possible reasoning for why the prefix was added so long ago. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 02:00:54
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So I have a strange thought, and it opens up a new line of discussion (which doesn't bare discussing, since we all seem very aware of the story behind the names)? 
I don't really think Abeir will be the 'home' of Ed's Realms - it just tickled me that its been hiding, safe and secure, all along.
I both like and dislike what they did with the names in 4e; while I feel it (and the Spellplague in-general) was brilliant (for making major changes whenever they want, and have one catch-all explanation), the 'other planet' aspect of it makes it feel too scify to me. The whole scenario had too much of a 'when worlds collide' feel to it (IMHO).
At the same time, despite how I feel, it does 'play well' with Ed's established theme - FR's inter-connectivity to other worlds. It could just be what it was used for - to change the Realms - that it gets under my skin. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Mar 2012 02:02:38 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 03:33:42
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Complete tangent following the above tangents:
I wonder . . . if the Realms "collided" with our world, would that make for an appealing story or no? Campaign ideas, they are a blooming . . .
(Oh BTW: Vote Elminster/Khelben 2012!)
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 14 Mar 2012 03:37:48 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 04:37:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Complete tangent following the above tangents:
I wonder . . . if the Realms "collided" with our world, would that make for an appealing story or no? Campaign ideas, they are a blooming . . .
(Oh BTW: Vote Elminster/Khelben 2012!)
Cheers
-Just speaking for myself, but that stuff turns me off very much. I believe I am in the minority here, but crossovers between the Forgotten Realms and Earth are corny. Yes, the concept behind so much of the setting is that the Forgotten Realms contain that which has been 'forgotten' on Earth, but seeing that "in action" is not my thing. The stories about Elminster visiting Yellowstone Park, or having tea with Ed Greenwood, I could do without- and, that's more or less passive, in-the-background stuff. If we had actual in-progress stories about Forgotten Realms characters coming to Earth, or vice-versa, bleh. That reminds me of that movie Enchanted, where the Disney princess left the cartoon world and came to New York. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2012 : 14:55:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Complete tangent following the above tangents:
I wonder . . . if the Realms "collided" with our world, would that make for an appealing story or no?
-Just speaking for myself, but that stuff turns me off very much. I believe I am in the minority here, but crossovers between the Forgotten Realms and Earth are corny.
Heh, not to mention a continuity nightmare. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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After "Elminster's Forgotten Realms" comes out
