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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Mar 2012 : 20:15:42
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Upon request, I have ironed out my feat-based spellcasting system. This has not been playtested at all, so I welcome feedback. It should work for Pathfinder as well, just subtract 3 from minimum Knowledge ranks in the prerequisites.
EDIT: Minor editing brought to my attention by Diffan.
Effective Spellcaster Level (ESL)
All non-spellcasting classes have and ESL equal to 1/2 their level. Your Spells Known improves as your ESL increases as per Chart: Effective Spellcaster Level Spells. Bonus Spells per Day are calculated from the character’s Charisma score. After taking the Novice Spellcaster feat, you can take any feats with a minimum caster level (CL) requirement by substituting your ESL for the required CL.
Novice Spellcaster [Cross-Class]
Prerequisite: ESL +1, Knowledge(arcana) or Knowledge(religion) 3 ranks, Charisma 10.
Benefit: Choose a spellcasting type, either arcane or divine spellcasting. Once chosen, you cannot change it.
Choose three cantrips from Sorcerer/Wizard (for arcane spellcasting) or three orisons from the Cleric (for divine spellcasting) spell list. You can spontaneously cast these spells a number of times per day as per Chart: Effective Spellcaster Level Spells.
Spellcaster of the 1st Circle [Cross-Class]
Prerequisite:ESL +1, Novice Spellcaster, Knowledge(arcana) or Knowledge(religion) 4 ranks, Charisma 11.
Benefit:Choose two 1st level spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard (for arcane spellcasting) or Cleric (for divine spellcasting) spell list. You can spontaneously cast these spells a number of times per day as per Chart: Effective Spellcaster Level Spells.
Spellcaster of the 2nd Circle [Cross-Class]
Prerequisite:ESL +4, Spellcaster of the 1st Circle, Knowledge(arcana) or Knowledge(religion) 6 ranks, Charisma 12.
Benefit:Choose one 2nd level spell from the Sorcerer/Wizard (for arcane spellcasting) or Cleric (for divine spellcasting) spell list. You can spontaneously cast this spell a number of times per day as per Chart: Effective Spellcaster Level Spells.
Spellcaster of the 3rd Circle [Cross-Class]
Prerequisite:ESL +6, Spellcaster of the 2nd Circle, Knowledge(arcana) or Knowledge(religion) 7 ranks, Charisma 13.
Benefit:Choose one 3rd level spell from the Sorcerer/Wizard (for arcane spellcasting) or Cleric (for divine spellcasting) spell list. You can spontaneously cast this spell a number of times per day as per Chart: Effective Spellcaster Level Spells.
Spellcaster of the 4th Circle [Cross-Class]
Prerequisite:ESL +8, Spellcaster of the 3rd Circle, Knowledge(arcana) or Knowledge(religion) 9 ranks, Charisma 14.
Benefit:Choose one 4th level spell from the Sorcerer/Wizard (for arcane spellcasting) or Cleric (for divine spellcasting) spell list. You can spontaneously cast this spell a number of times per day as per Chart: Effective Spellcaster Level Spells.
Spellcaster of the 5th Circle [Cross-Class]
Prerequisite:ESL +10, Spellcaster of the 4th Circle, Knowledge(arcana) or Knowledge(religion) 10 ranks, Charisma 15.
Benefit:Choose one 5th level spell from the Sorcerer/Wizard (for arcane spellcasting) or Cleric (for divine spellcasting) spell list. You can spontaneously cast this spell a number of times per day as per Chart: Effective Spellcaster Level Spells.
Spellcaster of the 6th Circle [Cross-Class]
Prerequisite:ESL +12, Spellcaster of the 5th Circle, Knowledge(arcana) or Knowledge(religion) 12 ranks, Charisma 16.
Benefit:Choose one 6th level spell from the Sorcerer/Wizard (for arcane spellcasting) or Cleric (for divine spellcasting) spell list. You can spontaneously cast this spell a number of times per day as per Chart: Effective Spellcaster Level Spells.
Spellcaster of the 7th Circle [Cross-Class]
Prerequisite:ESL +14, Spellcaster of the 6th Circle, Knowledge(arcana) or Knowledge(religion) 13 ranks, Charisma 17.
Benefit:Choose one 7th level spell from the Sorcerer/Wizard (for arcane spellcasting) or Cleric (for divine spellcasting) spell list. You can spontaneously cast this spell a number of times per day as per Chart: Effective Spellcaster Level Spells.
Spellcaster of the 8th Circle [Cross-Class]
Prerequisite:ESL +16, Spellcaster of the 7th Circle, Knowledge(arcana) or Knowledge(religion) 15 ranks, Charisma 18.
Benefit:Choose one 8th level spell from the Sorcerer/Wizard (for arcane spellcasting) or Cleric (for divine spellcasting) spell list. You can spontaneously cast this spell a number of times per day as per Chart: Effective Spellcaster Level Spells.
Spellcaster of the 9th Circle [Cross-Class]
Prerequisite:ESL +18, Spellcaster of the 8th Circle, Knowledge(arcana) or Knowledge(religion) 16 ranks, Charisma 19.
Benefit:Choose one 9th level spell from the Sorcerer/Wizard (for arcane spellcasting) or Cleric (for divine spellcasting) spell list. You can spontaneously cast this spell a number of times per day as per Chart: Effective Spellcaster Level Spells.
Improved Effective Spellcasting [Cross-Class]
Prerequisite: ESL +5, Novice Spellcaster, Knowledge(arcana) or Knowledge(religion) 7 ranks
Benefit: You increase your ESL by +4. This cannot increase your ESL above your character level -2.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times, its effects stack.
Chart: Effective Spellcaster Level Spells
Character——————————Spells per Day—————————————
Level———ESL——0—1st—2nd—3rd—4th—5th—6th—7th—8th—9th
1st-2nd———+1——2——1———————————————————————
3rd,4th———+2—-—3——2———————————————————————
5th,6th———+3—-—3——2———————————————————————
7th,8th———+4—-—3——3——1—————————————————————
9th,10th——-+5—-—3——3——2—————————————————————
11th,12th——+6—-—3——3——2——1——————————————————
13th,14th——+7—-—3——3——3——2——————————————————
15th,16th——+8—-—3——3——3——2——1———————————————
17th,18th——+9—-—3——3——3——3——2———————————————
19th,20th——+10——3——3——3——3——2——1————————————
———————+11——3——3——3——3——3——2————————————
———————+12——3——3——3——3——3——2——1—————————
———————+13——3——3——3——3——3——3——2—————————
———————+14——3——3——3——3——3——3——2——1———————
———————+15——3——3——3——3——3——3——3——2———————
———————+16——3——3——3——3——3——3——3——2——1————
———————+17——3——3——3——3——3——3——3——3——2————
———————+18——3——3——3——3——3——3——3——3——2——1—
Character——————————Spells Known—————————————
Level———ESL——0—1st—2nd—3rd—4th—5th—6th—7th—8th—9th
1st-2nd———+1——3——2———————————————————————
3rd,4th———+2—-—3——2———————————————————————
5th,6th———+3—-—3——2———————————————————————
7th,8th———+4—-—4——2——1—————————————————————
9th,10th——-+5—-—4——3——2—————————————————————
11th,12th——+6—-—4——3——2——1——————————————————
13th,14th——+7—-—4——3——2——2——————————————————
15th,16th——+8—-—5——3——2——2——1———————————————
17th,18th——+9—-—5——3——3——2——2———————————————
19th,20th——+10——5——3——3——2——2——1————————————
———————+11——5——3——3——3——2——2————————————
———————+12——5——3——3——3——2——2——1—————————
———————+13——5——3——3——3——3——2——2—————————
———————+14——5——3——3——3——3——2——2——1———————
———————+15——5——3——3——3——3——3——2——2———————
———————+16——5——3——3——3——3——3——2——2——1————
———————+17——5——3——3——3——3——3——2——2——2————
———————+18——5——3——3——3——3——3——2——2——2——1—
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Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 09 Mar 2012 22:56:36
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2012 : 21:19:15
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Sounds cool! I have a 3 questions about this:
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
All non-spellcasting classes have and ECR equal to 1/2 their level.
Did you mean ESL instead of ECR. If not, what's ECR stand for?
And what is the purpose of requing a Charisma Score for the continuing feats?
Also, I'm assuing that once you select Novice Spellcaster, you can't select it again to obtain additional spells. For example, taking it twice to gain both arcan and divine?
And thanks for sharing. Very interesting concept indeed. |
Edited by - Diffan on 09 Mar 2012 21:20:32 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2012 : 22:20:58
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Fascinating. This system seems like a key to unlocking the powers of the various classes. What if you built your character this way with regard to all abilities--rather than playing a wizard, you play a human and take these feats as you progress?
Hmm...
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2012 : 22:55:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Sounds cool! I have a 3 questions about this:Did you mean ESL instead of ECR. If not, what's ECR stand for?
And what is the purpose of requing a Charisma Score for the continuing feats?
Also, I'm assuing that once you select Novice Spellcaster, you can't select it again to obtain additional spells. For example, taking it twice to gain both arcan and divine?
And thanks for sharing. Very interesting concept indeed.
Yes, I meant ESL, I had a different acronym for something slightly different before, but I don't remember what it was. I will make sure to fix this in the OP.
As per the Charisma prereq, you would have to have that Charisma score anyways to cast spell of that level, so I just integrated it into the prereqs.
As to taking Novice Spellcaster twice, once for arcane and once for divine, it is not initially designed for that, but I suppose you could. But you would have to take the tree twice to unlock all the spell levels for each spellcasting type.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-How would one go about learning new spells after the feat is taken initially?
You learn new spells as per the chart, or you can take the Extra Slot and/or Extra Spell feats from the Complete Arcane to gain new spells per day or spells known. Or, the Expanded Arcana feat from the Pathfinder Advanced Player's Guide.
Originally, I tried having the player have to choose between INT, WIS, and CHA for their modifier AND choosing whether to cast divine or arcane spells AND choosing whether to cast spontaneously or prepare spells; but that got very complicated in the wording, and so I decided to just go with Charisma and spontaneous casting. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 09 Mar 2012 22:57:26 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2012 : 04:11:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Fascinating. This system seems like a key to unlocking the powers of the various classes. What if you built your character this way with regard to all abilities--rather than playing a wizard, you play a human and take these feats as you progress?
Hmm...
Cheers
-I don't have it, but from what I've seen of my girlfriend playing it, The Old Republic does something similar, in terms of force powers and regular abilities (Skills, I guess?)
-You'd have to search for it, but I remember seeing somebody develop this type of tier-system for the d20 Modern game on the WotC boards a few years ago.
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
You learn new spells as per the chart, or you can take the Extra Slot and/or Extra Spell feats from the Complete Arcane to gain new spells per day or spells known. Or, the Expanded Arcana feat from the Pathfinder Advanced Player's Guide.
-Ok, wasn't sure. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerûn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerûn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 10 Mar 2012 04:12:24 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2012 : 05:08:30
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Ya know, I see a lot of uses being done with this. It's pretty ideal for a Fighter, Knight, or Crusader to grab some divine spellcasting as much as it is for a Rogue, Ninja, Swashbuckler, or Scout to Grab some arcane spells too.
By taking the feat, would there still be Spell Check Failures for armors worn when using Arcane magic? Is it applied to both? |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2383 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2012 : 06:35:30
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As it is (standalone), this reminds of the old "surgery on tonsils done via rectum" joke. 
Something like this would be a good idea as a part of an attempt to truly unify the system by dispensing with class abilities and turning classes in access lists for them. To give the same spellcasting progression mechanics used for major (wizard / priest / druid) and minor (bard / paladin / ranger) casters, only greater or lesser amount of it. That would work. But then, in a quest for flexibility "feats" themselves would most likely be one of the first things to go, right after 10.5 -centered adjustments.
Oh, and with Charisma glued on a side even more than in d20, too? |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2012 : 18:19:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Ya know, I see a lot of uses being done with this. It's pretty ideal for a Fighter, Knight, or Crusader to grab some divine spellcasting as much as it is for a Rogue, Ninja, Swashbuckler, or Scout to Grab some arcane spells too.
By taking the feat, would there still be Spell Check Failures for armors worn when using Arcane magic? Is it applied to both?
Arcane Spell Failure Checks would just apply to arcane spells. Though there is room for a feat tree for arcane spellcasting in light then medium then heavy armor as well.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
As it is (standalone), this reminds of the old "surgery on tonsils done via rectum" joke.
Something like this would be a good idea as a part of an attempt to truly unify the system by dispensing with class abilities and turning classes in access lists for them. To give the same spellcasting progression mechanics used for major (wizard / priest / druid) and minor (bard / paladin / ranger) casters, only greater or lesser amount of it. That would work. But then, in a quest for flexibility "feats" themselves would most likely be one of the first things to go, right after 10.5 -centered adjustments.
Oh, and with Charisma glued on a side even more than in d20, too?
I have a number of other cross-class feats that I have also developed. I mentioned Martial Training (which allows you to take fighter-only feats at your Character Level - 4) in another thread, and someone mentioned an interest in a feat-based magic system. So, here it is. I can showcase more if people are interested. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Feat-Based Spellcasting (3.5)
