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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I just had a thought... When Mystryl died, she dumped her power into a human girl.

Mystra 1.0 dumped a lot of her power into a human girl, too, before Midnight came along and got the rest of that power.

We also know that Mystra 1.0 possessed a mortal woman and had a slew of daughters with her, daughters that contained part of Mystra's essence...

What if Mystryl did the same thing? It's possible that the nameless girl who became Mystra was either a daughter of or a descendant of Mystryl. For that matter, a lot of magical anamolies could be explained that way -- maybe all of the non-Seven Chosen are descendants of Mystryl. Maybe some other odd cases, like wild talents, incantatrices, and even spellfire wielders are all descendants of Mystryl.

I might be wrong, but it's an interesting idea, thinks I.

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Originally posted by Markustay

In some of my 'deep secrets' musings in this thread and others, I have had some indication by 'persons in the know' (can't remember the specifics... probably Ed via THO) that the artifact that is Mystra requires some sort of mortal connection. Exactly why and and how deep that connection must be has never been discussed, because it falls into that 'deep secrets' category. I am not sure if it has anything to do with her initial creation, or some rule imposed upon her later by Ao (or even something else).

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Originally posted by The Hooded One

Markustay, you recall correctly - - and Wooly, you tread into dangerous ground, you wise and insightful hamster, you!
(Which is a not so subtle way of saying you're on to something, both of you.)

THO

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Originally posted by The Sage

If we look at it from this perspective, then I'd suspect Ao has something else up his divine sleeve beside just a simple reboot for Mystra.

Considering how many times she has already been down this path of repeated death and rebirth, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Ao and [by extension] whatever remains of Mystra 2.0, have both sat down and had a chat about working to ensure a new Goddess of Magic that is entirely reconstituted in ways that can't be so easily corrupted by others. This would require a fundamental rethinking of Mystra's relationship with the intimate connection between the Weave, her Chosen, and Realmspace, as well as her standing amongst the post-Spellplague pantheon of deities.

In other words, we're talking about skipping Mystra 3.0 and jumping straight to Mystra 7.0 or even 8.0.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

What if Mystryl did the same thing? It's possible that the nameless girl who became Mystra was either a daughter of or a descendant of Mystryl. For that matter, a lot of magical anamolies could be explained that way -- maybe all of the non-Seven Chosen are descendants of Mystryl. Maybe some other odd cases, like wild talents, incantatrices, and even spellfire wielders are all descendants of Mystryl.

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Originally posted by The Sage

I've speculated previously that some of the possible "Chosen" of Mystryl may in fact have been these magical anomalies.

As Ed has said in the past, the reality of Mystryl having Chosen is supposedly "a secret of the Realms that has been sitting in plain sight for lo these many years." What if these anomalies become the original templates for how the Chosen of Mystra were to work, later with the rise of Mystra?

Interestingly, perhaps the whole concept of the Seven "Sisters" isn't something that's a wholly new invention in the faith of magical mysteries either. Maybe there were "Seven" magical anomalies of Mystryl as well.

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Originally posted by Markustay

What if...

Instead of a 'Weave', which some one else named for the published Realms, it was more like a web or net (which is how Ed described it, IIRC).

Now if magic = life (in Ed's Realms), that means Weave = life, right? What if the Weave itself wasn't some separate, intangible thing, but rather, a neural-network of all living things on Toril?

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Originally posted by Markustay

Maybe the Chosen become Chosen because they are the major conjunction-points in this 'life web'.

They become a type of 'magical nexus' point, as the patterns of energy criss-cross around the world. This could be completely random, or it could be that these people have a certain bloodline, or were 'born under the right star', or maybe were just in the right place at the right time.

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Originally posted by Kuje

Hmmm, that's a interesting observation and maybe you're onto something, Jakk. I never put that together, usually cause I don't really look at alignments to much but Mystra's I always have because of all the debates that take place around her and her alignment and abilities and how often people complain because she's a "good" aligned deity.

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Originally posted by Markustay

But seriously, I actually think the 'reboot thing' is a built-in safety feature, mandated by Ao (or his superiors). Think of the human connection like a stopper in a drain.

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Originally posted by Dennis

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Originally posted by Markustay

But seriously, I actually think the 'reboot thing' is a built-in safety feature, mandated by Ao (or his superiors). Think of the human connection like a stopper in a drain.

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I believe Ao has ways to 'regulate' the powers of all the gods, so that no one would ever rise to be another overgod, a rival. His means of regulating the other gods' strengths are mostly secret and less catastrophic to the gods involved, save a few like Mystryl/Mystra. Which could be his 'special case.'

The reboot that he pre-programmed on Mystryl/Mystra is always on schedule. Heck, he might have been the one who showed Karsus the star that powered his Avatar spell.

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Originally posted by Dennis


It was the spell component referred to as 'star' which the phaerimm brought to Karsus's attention and which Karsus plucked from the 'future.'

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High in the sky, slicing the night in an arc, was a shooting star. Even as he watched, it completed its journey from the heavens to the earth. The glare illuminated distant tall trees like twigs in a campfire—for just a second, then the light was snuffed out. Sunbright thought he felt the earth under his boots shake, but that was his imagination. He wasn't on the earth, but floating a mile above it.

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Then, abruptly, he found his (their) destination. And it made sense, for the shooting star and Greenwillow's warning had broken his sleepwalking, kept him from pitching out a window.

Here the shooting star had plunged into a hillside, blowing open a crater like a tumbled mine shaft.

Easing his sword from its scabbard, though he sensed no danger, Sunbright paced forward. The forest here was scrubby, rife with pin oaks and mossy granite rocks taller than himself. Yet several rocks had been blown aside like dandelion fluff when the star crashed. The forest was hushed, for animals still avoided the area. Quietly, wary of hidden holes, Sunbright padded across old leaves, then onto fresh-turned dirt of yellow and brown. The hillside was not high, and the impact had split the top like a loaf of bread, leaving a large hole. Sunbright tiptoed to peek inside.

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Candlemas squinted in the dark. The little star was glowing. Ripples of green light chased each other across its surface.

Sunbright glanced down, hissed, "You said it wouldn't glow!"

"It shouldn't!" Candlemas backed up, slid on sand, landed back on the cooling star.

Eldritch fire illuminated his hairy toes. "It's magical, but—"

Near Candlemas's shoulder, Sunbright ducked as the rushing sounded again, louder, as if a giant bird beat the forest, hunting them, or a hurricane stirred the tree crowns. But the sound was loudest in the hole. The rushing came from the fallen star. "It's hissing! It's working! It's—"

"Get out!" Candlemas grabbed the barbarian's belt to haul himself along even while pushing. "Get out! It's going to explo—"

Green light flashed from the star, engulfed the two men, and winked out.

The smoking hole lay empty.

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Karsus was kneeling and babbling like a child. One dirty hand tugged at his hair, so much so it was ragged and short above his ear. His other hand stroked the star-stone repeatedly. "Exactly, exactly what we need! Exactly! All my experiments have been leading up to—"

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Originally posted by sleyvas

So.... what I'm hearing here is that Mystra's chosen are likely blood relations to her...<snip>

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Hmmm. Prolly can't work that into my idea, then... Too much effort to reconcile that description with my own idea.

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Originally posted by Markustay

No, I thought they were immense balls of burning gas and atomic reactions.

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Originally posted by Markustay

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Originally posted by sleyvas

So.... what I'm hearing here is that Mystra's chosen are likely blood relations to her...<snip>

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THIS is a very interesting notion indeed. Especially when you consider the Magister's work with the Incipient Clans.

Not to be confused with the 'Insipid Clans'.

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Originally posted by Markustay

It sounds more like a meteor then a real star (were you thinking about a fragment of the First Sun, Wooly?).

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Originally posted by sleyvas

So.... what I'm hearing here is that Mystra's chosen are likely blood relations to her... which means that Mystryl/Mystra is big into incest :-)

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Originally posted by The Sage

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Originally posted by sleyvas

So.... what I'm hearing here is that Mystra's chosen are likely blood relations to her... which means that Mystryl/Mystra is big into incest :-)

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Or, as I've speculated about before, it could be a similar scenario to the creation of the Seven Sisters. In that each of the Chosen has the same father, kind of like Dornal being the father of most of the Seven Sisters.

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Originally posted by Jakk

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Originally posted by Markustay

It sounds more like a meteor then a real star (were you thinking about a fragment of the First Sun, Wooly?).

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I agree with Mark's analysis... and I, too, am curious as to Wooly's original idea.

So, Hamsterish One, will you share your thoughts with us as well?

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Oh, it was something pertaining to my own, alternate version of the death and rebirth of Mystra. I was for a while fiddling with a way to kill Mystra, reduce the number of Chosen, and bring her back, all without having a big RSE in the process. It was basically me trying to accomplish a couple of the design goals of the 4E Realms, but with connections to prior lore and a lack of a horrendous kablooie (space or otherwise! ).

There were a couple elements I never quite worked out, and in time I drifted away from the idea. I've still got some very rough notes, though, that I may dig up and share.

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