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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Feb 2012 : 01:47:02
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From Dragon #380.* I just discovered these beasties and while I am somewhat confused regarding their origins and such that does not stop me from wanting to use (at least one of) them. Has anyone done a 3.5 conversion? I am most interested in the Causticsoul. This appears to be a descendent of a corrupted water (acid) elemental. Using the 2e plan for elementals and para/quasi elementals, would that make Acid genasi a sub-type of Ooze (itself a blending of Earth and Water)? I'm not sure how some of these 4e powers could be converted to a 3e character. Should the "Soul of Erosion" be made into a PrC? And the "Acid Surge - You dissolve into a bubbling, hissing liquid and surge through your enemies." be folded into that? Under the 4e ruleset is any mention made of what happens to worn or held items when you surge? Do they transform with you or simply fall through your liquid body? Would such a character need special acid-resistant items, adamantine maybe? These and many other problems present themselves as I consider this. Any ideas? Has anybody used this concept in a 3.x rule system?
* All quotes taken from Dragon #380 pp 18-23
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Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 10 Feb 2012 01:49:01
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2012 : 01:54:45
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I am a little confused regarding these Abyssal Genasi. From what I can gather from Dragon 380 their elemental bloodline is tarnished by a demonic taint. If a Plaguesoul is corrupted Air and Cindersoul is Fire. I assume Causticsoul is Earth. Where does a Voidsoul fit in?
edit: Maybe Causticsoul is meant to be Water than Voidsoul is corrupted Air? I'm so confused.
edit2: To add to my confusion, this article names the 4th genasi-type as Gravesoul replacing Cindersoul.
edit3: "The genasi race has many expressions. It is a race of fire, wind, earth, water, and storm." Has 4e broken with the traditional 4 elements model? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2012 : 04:56:09
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....
ummmmm..... I could swear along time ago I heard taht 2e had versions of atleast one of the abbyssal gensai... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2012 : 06:39:44
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I remember reading that a while back. I don't have that Dragon in front of my, however, so all of this is off the top of my head.
First, I think the idea of "abyssal genasi" is stupid. It's a contradiction in terms. Lower planar beings make tieflings, elemental beings make genasi. However, I think your idea of making these "corrupted" genasi be from the paraelemental, or even the quasielemental planes is a good one.
And yes, 4e has split "air" into "air" and "thunder" for reasons best left unexamined.
Now, as to your question of how to make the 4e powers into 3e, I think that depends on how powerful you want the abilities to be. If you just want them there, but not that strong, you could make them a racial feat. Make it usable 1/day, and not do that much damage, and you should be fine.
If you want it to be as impressive as it sounds in your quote, I'd go with a racial PrC, probably 3 levels long and modeled after a racial paragon class from Unearthed Arcana, or alternatively the Ruathar class from Races of the Wild, if you want to make Acid Surge powerful enough to require a minimum level. Probably require an "Acid Splash" feat to get in, and then have it get augmented through the class.
That way you can make the Acid Surge as powerful as you want, and balance it out by the BAB progression you give the class, and whether or not it grants spellcasting.
Since I don't have the 4e version in front of me, I'm afraid I can't do much better than that general overview, but hopefully it gives you someplace to start. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2012 : 23:18:55
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Not stupid at all, and only simple logic, not a contradiction.
In 4e cosmology, the elemental chaos isn't the abyss--the abyss is a *part* of the elemental chaos that has been corrupted by a shard of pure evil. Normal genasi come from the not-evil part of the elemental chaos, abyssal genasi are tainted by the same taint that creates the abyss.
I actually feature an abyssal genasi in my latest novel Shadowbane. She claims her mother was an air genasi and her father was a demon. It may BR more complicated, but it's clear that abyssal genasi are normal genasi corrupted by evil in the way that evil turns normal elemental creatures into demons.
Also, tieflings in 4e descend from devils, which do not inhabit a lower plane at all, but rather a dominion in the Astral Sea.
I know some of this is an odd inversion of past lore, but I see it as more a matter of perspective than physics. Mortals understand the planes in many different ways/metaphors--I see no reason they can't all be true.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 07:28:17
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| Erik, I do appreciate your efforts to reconcile 4e with the past lore, but this is retarded. Why would they take something so elegant, so symmetrical and do that to it? It makes absolutely no sense to me. Spin it any way you want, it's still chocolate-covered *garbage* |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 11 Feb 2012 07:35:44 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2388 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 09:31:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
First, I think the idea of "abyssal genasi" is stupid. It's a contradiction in terms. Lower planar beings make tieflings, elemental beings make genasi. However, I think your idea of making these "corrupted" genasi be from the paraelemental, or even the quasielemental planes is a good one.
One doesn't exclude another. In the 2e Planescape (as best developed) - there are pseudo-elementals (normally summoning spells don't go all the way Astral-Prime-Ethereal to Inner Planes, so relevant creatures are made of Outer Planes substances, which obviously have "interesting" consequences), archimentals who may seek alliance with Outer planar powers, etc. Normal elemental creatures can be tainted one way or another - e.g. like "bloodstained" ones.
The problem, however, is that if it starts as pointless shuffling of game mechanics, it's perhaps best... you know... left there. No point to shoehorn every oddity into a setting just because it can be formulated in game mechanics terms. IMHO. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 20:23:28
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| Voidsoul genasi are the corrupted air. Causticsoul-water, Cindersoul-fire, Plaguesoul-earth. I think they're pretty cool. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 20:47:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Erik, I do appreciate your efforts to reconcile 4e with the past lore, but this is retarded. Why would they take something so elegant, so symmetrical and do that to it? It makes absolutely no sense to me. Spin it any way you want, it's still chocolate-covered *garbage*
Different tastes, I guess. I like them for the same reason I like tieflings, fey'ri, and other subraces tainted by evil.
To me, it reflects the 2e cosmology of how the quasi-elemental planes are just elemental planes, "corrupted" by proximity to the negative energy plane or "brightened" by proximity to the positive energy plane. Abyssal genasi are just that: the genasi of the abyss.
Personally, I really like Abyssal Genasi. They play a prominent role in my 4e FR game, wherein . . .
(MY 4e FR PLAYERS LOOK AWAY NOW!!!)
They're the result of a genasi breeding program (to craft the ultimate genasi to be able to stand up to primordials--specifically, to slay Blazing Rorn the Fury) being conducted by one of the chief antagonists, wherein normal genasi are infused with abyssal power that taints their natural elemental nature, the same way it tainted the elemental chaos to give rise (depth?) to the abyss itself. Which abyssal manifestation a genasi develops depends mostly on what manifestation(s) that genasi had before--a windsoul usually develops voidsoul, a firesoul cindersoul, etc. It's a sub-plot crafted specifically for the the earthsoul genasi of the group, involving his parents, adopted sister, and his ultimate destiny.
END SPOILERS
Also, if you don't like abyssal genasi, there's no reason you can't just ignore them. After all, not everything that comes out is going to be to everyone's taste.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 21:33:30
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| If there are Abyssal genasi, are there also Hellish genasi, or celestial genasi? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 21:37:16
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How about something really weird, like an infernal water genasi?
A creature that despises its own nature.
Or we could just go crazy with this an create elemental genasi... oh... wait...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 22:21:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If there are Abyssal genasi, are there also Hellish genasi, or celestial genasi?
I was thinking of that even as I wrote my post. I think Astral Genasi would be pretty cool--genasi whose elemental nature is infused with power from the upper planes/Astral Sea.
stormsoul => radiantsoul, whose elemental nature is the power of the sun
firesoul => lifesoul, whose elemental nature is the fire of life (ala phoenix)
windsoul => rainbowsoul, whose elemental nature is tied to coatls?
earthsoul => cometsoul, whose elemental nature is tied to heavenly bodies?
watersoul => ???, whose elemental nature is tied to the waters of Arvandor?
(I suspect that these haven't appeared because peace and love doesn't sell like violence and darkness.  )
I did also want to say that as a tiny subset of an already very rare race (genasi), Abyssal Genasi are EXTREMELY rare. Most adventurers never encounter one of them.
EDIT: I speak too soon. There are also other genasi types called embersouls, magmasouls, sandsouls, and sunsouls, which I believe originate from Dark Sun.
On the elements thing: Basically, there are LOTS of different elements, and the genasi reflect them all. They really aren't supposed to be personifications of the four classical elements.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 11 Feb 2012 22:48:54 |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 23:09:00
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ERik....
Watersoul=> Tranquil Soul, whose elemental nature is tied to the mysterious waters of arvandor/ or teh feywild.
You never know what just lies beneath the surface of any body of water, but in the feywild and arvandor, this doubly true.
at first appearance a tranquil soul appears as a watersoul gensai, but they move with such grace and are often bring about a calming aura arround them and are able to break up heaated arguements.
racial deals:
can swim and breath underwater
on full moon can use any body of water to open a temp feygate to the feywild
btw, I dont hate the corrupted gensai.... however I've no use for them either....
and nice astral sea gensais Erik when will they be out on DDI?? |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
Edited by - sfdragon on 11 Feb 2012 23:44:48 |
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 23:12:36
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| @Erik, Wow! Those are really good! |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2012 : 23:16:07
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Madsoul => gensai that their nature is received the quaisi element of the mind known as chaos
completely maddening in their nature, the madsouls differ from one another like night and day. Their outlooks on life often change with the moons.
racial deal:
no clue
psi point bonus
of course I have no clue on how one would argue that chaos would qualify as an element |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
Edited by - sfdragon on 11 Feb 2012 23:46:23 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 01:44:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If there are Abyssal genasi, are there also Hellish genasi, or celestial genasi?
I think I'll always prefer the 2e interpretation... which pretty much made all genasi possible, and didn't really differentiate between abyssal, hellish, or whatever. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2388 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 09:46:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
Voidsoul genasi are the corrupted air. Causticsoul-water, Cindersoul-fire, Plaguesoul-earth. I think they're pretty cool.
But then, why not to simply treat all quasielements and paraelements separately?
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If there are Abyssal genasi, are there also Hellish genasi, or celestial genasi?
...or, you know, simply by mixing.
Outer planar bloodline + Elemental bloodline = why not?
Especially likely in context of a support group to the same archomental.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I think I'll always prefer the 2e interpretation... which pretty much made all genasi possible, and didn't really differentiate between abyssal, hellish, or whatever.
Given tiefling and aasimar, in right circumstances still not too far-fetched. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2012 : 15:41:29
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If there are Abyssal genasi, are there also Hellish genasi, or celestial genasi?
I think I'll always prefer the 2e interpretation... which pretty much made all genasi possible, and didn't really differentiate between abyssal, hellish, or whatever.
Meh, I dunno... In my opinion, regular genasi should be rare enough as it is. Mixing in an Outer planar heritage on top of that is just overkill, thinks I. Something like that should be so rare that there might be a handful of them in all the cosmos, and a simple template applied to a regular genasi should be enough.
It's like The Snail from Dragon 345: "The Snail is a 'vampiric half-dragon half-troll lycanthropic fiendish snail' with psionic powers and a Challenge Rating of 14." Yeah, it's certainly possible... But why would you do it, and how do you reasonably explain it? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2012 : 01:00:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If there are Abyssal genasi, are there also Hellish genasi, or celestial genasi?
I think I'll always prefer the 2e interpretation... which pretty much made all genasi possible, and didn't really differentiate between abyssal, hellish, or whatever.
Meh, I dunno... In my opinion, regular genasi should be rare enough as it is. Mixing in an Outer planar heritage on top of that is just overkill, thinks I. Something like that should be so rare that there might be a handful of them in all the cosmos, and a simple template applied to a regular genasi should be enough.
Well, the 2e genasi really weren't all that dominate, especially outside of planar locations. Understandably, the likelihood of encountering large numbers of genasi anywhere on the planes is a reasonable assumption. But I'm inclined to agree that the numbers of genasi on the various Prime Material Planes, remains rare-to-uncommon, for the most part. Nations and/or cities with higher planar-traffic and/or elemental sources, I suspect, would offer higher rates of genasi on Prime Material Planes, much like Races of Faerûn would seem to indicate.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2012 : 01:40:52
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| There are apparently large numbers of half-celestials, aasimar, alu-fiends, cambions, and tieflings - plus all manner of bizarre abominations spawned by chaos - whose parentage is part human, fey, dragon, dwarf, or anything else. I don't see a mixing of inner and outer planes being impossible at all, although I agree their numbers would be small. At least within Realmspace or another Prime ... the situation might be very different in the Elemental Planes. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Abyssal Genasi
