Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 Reboot of the Realms for 5th edition.
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 23

Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe

USA
470 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2013 :  10:32:15  Show Profile  Visit Old Man Harpell's Homepage Send Old Man Harpell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell



Let's face it - they're giving us back one aspect of the Realms that a goodly number of us demanded (geographical reset), and in my opinion, in the only manner they realistically can, the one that won't alienate the people who came in during 4th Edition. They've taken steps to not be arbitrary about it and say 'the universe shifted back to the way it was, that's all the explanation needed' - well, no, it isn't, and they know that, and they made it so that there is a good explanation.


And what might that be? Becaus Ao (an ambigious being created to change plot/setting at a whim) said so? Because that's the impression I got when reading some of their ideas about bringing back Mexico and Egypt into the Realms. Count me in the "Like" category of Akanűl, Tymanther, and Returned Abeir. I thought these areas had SO MUCH FRICKIN' POTENTIAL and was pretty much dropped in all but one or two Dungeons/Dragon articles plus the FRCG.


As for the Gods coming back, I'll handle them like I did last time (by ignoring their presence unless specifically called out by a player) *shruggs*. Though I am glad that they aren't doing any of that reset nonsense.

As for the 5E Rule, I'm planning another Playtest Party soon using the most revised version so far. They've made some substantial changes since out last one (which didn't go over too well TBO) and I'm hoping for a bit more optimism this time around. The inclusion of the Barbarian, Monk (and I might bring in the Warlock and Sorcerer even though they're discontinued as of yet) will help provide some additional diversity. I'm still leery about a number of mechanical changes that I don't think are being handled well but that'll go into the playtest feedback part.



The 5th Edition rules, I have no idea. I've not seen them, so I'm not qualified to comment on them. And even then, I'll do for them what I did for 4th...judge them on their own merit, rather than on the Realms. 4th Edition rules actually aren't bad. Some things (like 'healing surges') I absolutely despise, while other things (stepping on 3.X's endless multiclassing, for example), I thought was wonderful beyond words. I just ultimnately decided they weren't my cup of tea. It's a pick-and-choose environment, though from what you say, I'm going to have to jerry-rig warlocks and sorcerers back into the game if they aren't included when 5th rolls around.

And I misspoke - I should have said 'they are trying to alienate as few people as possible'. In something like this, someone is going to wind up feeling cheated. Am I willing to say that having Ao geographically reset everything, as if rebooting the Well of Souls, is the lazy man's solution?

Well...yeah, actually, I would. I, too, rather liked Laerakond, (Returned Abeir, take your pick on names), though I am one of those rare neutrals on the issue of Tymanther and Akanul versus Unther and Mulhorand...whichever solution they arrived at would have been fine with me (though I would have liked to keep High Imaskar). There are things a geographical reversion will bring back that I don't much like, Anauroch being the foremost coming to mind - I simply couldn't get into it, especially with the Bedine being so similar to Calims (and later Zakharans). But...eh...I'll live with it.

I truthfully don't see how else they could have done this. Serious statement, not trying to pick a fight. I am genuinely interested to know what else they could have done (as an academic exercise, of course). How else could they have mollified as many people as possible while annoying the fewest amount possible? Edition-bashing is a superfluous exercise these days (until 5th comes out, I'm sure there'll be plenty to say here in the Keep), so that affords us the luxury of speculation: What should they have done?

- OMH

Edited by - Old Man Harpell on 12 Mar 2013 10:37:50
Go to Top of Page

Apex
Learned Scribe

USA
229 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2013 :  22:21:44  Show Profile  Visit Apex's Homepage Send Apex a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell




I truthfully don't see how else they could have done this. Serious statement, not trying to pick a fight. I am genuinely interested to know what else they could have done (as an academic exercise, of course). How else could they have mollified as many people as possible while annoying the fewest amount possible? Edition-bashing is a superfluous exercise these days (until 5th comes out, I'm sure there'll be plenty to say here in the Keep), so that affords us the luxury of speculation: What should they have done?

- OMH



The reason for the map reversion/reboot is likely because if you are going to an "edition neutral" type of setting for information, then everyone needs to have the same base map for it to work. Hence the return to the earlier map, so as to allow all the old gamers back in without doing a ton of damage to the newer entrants, since there has been little published for the "new" regions.

I am still somewhat agnostic towards 5th, as rule wise I know I will stick with 1st/2nd, and I don't see what I am going to gain information wise that will help my 1340s DR campaign. But at least there is now a shimmer of hope for me that with the old maps they might actually put something out i can use.
Go to Top of Page

Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3404 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2013 :  03:42:05  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell



Let's face it - they're giving us back one aspect of the Realms that a goodly number of us demanded (geographical reset), and in my opinion, in the only manner they realistically can, the one that won't alienate the people who came in during 4th Edition. They've taken steps to not be arbitrary about it and say 'the universe shifted back to the way it was, that's all the explanation needed' - well, no, it isn't, and they know that, and they made it so that there is a good explanation.


And what might that be? Becaus Ao (an ambigious being created to change plot/setting at a whim) said so? Because that's the impression I got when reading some of their ideas about bringing back Mexico and Egypt into the Realms. Count me in the "Like" category of Akanűl, Tymanther, and Returned Abeir. I thought these areas had SO MUCH FRICKIN' POTENTIAL and was pretty much dropped in all but one or two Dungeons/Dragon articles plus the FRCG.


As for the Gods coming back, I'll handle them like I did last time (by ignoring their presence unless specifically called out by a player) *shruggs*. Though I am glad that they aren't doing any of that reset nonsense.

As for the 5E Rule, I'm planning another Playtest Party soon using the most revised version so far. They've made some substantial changes since out last one (which didn't go over too well TBO) and I'm hoping for a bit more optimism this time around. The inclusion of the Barbarian, Monk (and I might bring in the Warlock and Sorcerer even though they're discontinued as of yet) will help provide some additional diversity. I'm still leery about a number of mechanical changes that I don't think are being handled well but that'll go into the playtest feedback part.



The 5th Edition rules, I have no idea. I've not seen them, so I'm not qualified to comment on them. And even then, I'll do for them what I did for 4th...judge them on their own merit, rather than on the Realms. 4th Edition rules actually aren't bad. Some things (like 'healing surges') I absolutely despise, while other things (stepping on 3.X's endless multiclassing, for example), I thought was wonderful beyond words. I just ultimnately decided they weren't my cup of tea. It's a pick-and-choose environment, though from what you say, I'm going to have to jerry-rig warlocks and sorcerers back into the game if they aren't included when 5th rolls around.

And I misspoke - I should have said 'they are trying to alienate as few people as possible'. In something like this, someone is going to wind up feeling cheated. Am I willing to say that having Ao geographically reset everything, as if rebooting the Well of Souls, is the lazy man's solution?

Well...yeah, actually, I would. I, too, rather liked Laerakond, (Returned Abeir, take your pick on names), though I am one of those rare neutrals on the issue of Tymanther and Akanul versus Unther and Mulhorand...whichever solution they arrived at would have been fine with me (though I would have liked to keep High Imaskar). There are things a geographical reversion will bring back that I don't much like, Anauroch being the foremost coming to mind - I simply couldn't get into it, especially with the Bedine being so similar to Calims (and later Zakharans). But...eh...I'll live with it.

I truthfully don't see how else they could have done this. Serious statement, not trying to pick a fight. I am genuinely interested to know what else they could have done (as an academic exercise, of course). How else could they have mollified as many people as possible while annoying the fewest amount possible? Edition-bashing is a superfluous exercise these days (until 5th comes out, I'm sure there'll be plenty to say here in the Keep), so that affords us the luxury of speculation: What should they have done?

- OMH



I think your correct in that they're not going to please everyone and I'm not blind to the presumption that a good majority of Realms fans enjoy a pre-Spellplague setting. That being said, they could've given us an extreamly detailed source book that featured many intriciate details of Akanűl, Tymanther, and Laerakond in a similiar fashion they did with Neverwinter and the Menzoberranzan supplements. Having those, I wouldn't need to create anything new for these regions and it would've allowed me to maintain their presence in an extreamly detailed fashion after the Sundering.


4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
Go to Top of Page

Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe

USA
470 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2013 :  12:43:58  Show Profile  Visit Old Man Harpell's Homepage Send Old Man Harpell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think your correct in that they're not going to please everyone and I'm not blind to the presumption that a good majority of Realms fans enjoy a pre-Spellplague setting. That being said, they could've given us an extreamly detailed source book that featured many intriciate details of Akanűl, Tymanther, and Laerakond in a similiar fashion they did with Neverwinter and the Menzoberranzan supplements. Having those, I wouldn't need to create anything new for these regions and it would've allowed me to maintain their presence in an extreamly detailed fashion after the Sundering.


I think that ultimately, it all boils down to money. I'm guessing they believe that the 4th Edition Realms have turned as much profit as they can reasonably expect, and now they're going to see how many of us will buy into the 'Sundered Realms' (for lack of a more accurate yet abbreviated description).

And I think Apex has the right of it - the geographical reset was yet another way for them to more easily (in other words, 'for less money') support all editions, and working from the same base map allows them to do that. I'm just really hoping we get the entirety of Toril this time around, at least a page or two devoted to a good world map. Just outlines and continent names would be fine, but they really need to consider doing that.

What I'm curious to find out about is how they handle the temporal and sociopolitical aspects. Does this 'reset' mean Szass Tam get another shot, now that his ruined homeland has 'rebooted'? Does Halruaa actually get its people back? Do the restored cities of Lantan have any...Lantanese? And of course, we have the iconic Realms personalities...not all of them had a decent exit story like Khelben did. I'll be interested to see if any of the ones who didn't get a fair shake this last time around show up.

I agree we should have had more source material - at the very least, I hope they'd do a sourcebook for Abeir, with all the Toril-born influences (and vice versa) that carried over (such as elves). At least then we'd be able to see the results of what happens after that world's geography reset. Apart from where it landed, Laerakond was one of the best things about the 4th Edition FRCG.

And deities...we can hope against hope they get that right.

- OMH
Go to Top of Page

KacyCrawford
Seeker

USA
41 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2013 :  16:28:16  Show Profile Send KacyCrawford a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes,I would like to see it.
Go to Top of Page

The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3525 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2013 :  16:38:49  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think your correct in that they're not going to please everyone and I'm not blind to the presumption that a good majority of Realms fans enjoy a pre-Spellplague setting. That being said, they could've given us an extreamly detailed source book that featured many intriciate details of Akanűl, Tymanther, and Laerakond in a similiar fashion they did with Neverwinter and the Menzoberranzan supplements. Having those, I wouldn't need to create anything new for these regions and it would've allowed me to maintain their presence in an extreamly detailed fashion after the Sundering.


I think that ultimately, it all boils down to money. I'm guessing they believe that the 4th Edition Realms have turned as much profit as they can reasonably expect, and now they're going to see how many of us will buy into the 'Sundered Realms' (for lack of a more accurate yet abbreviated description).

And I think Apex has the right of it - the geographical reset was yet another way for them to more easily (in other words, 'for less money') support all editions, and working from the same base map allows them to do that. I'm just really hoping we get the entirety of Toril this time around, at least a page or two devoted to a good world map. Just outlines and continent names would be fine, but they really need to consider doing that.

What I'm curious to find out about is how they handle the temporal and sociopolitical aspects. Does this 'reset' mean Szass Tam get another shot, now that his ruined homeland has 'rebooted'? Does Halruaa actually get its people back? Do the restored cities of Lantan have any...Lantanese? And of course, we have the iconic Realms personalities...not all of them had a decent exit story like Khelben did. I'll be interested to see if any of the ones who didn't get a fair shake this last time around show up.

I agree we should have had more source material - at the very least, I hope they'd do a sourcebook for Abeir, with all the Toril-born influences (and vice versa) that carried over (such as elves). At least then we'd be able to see the results of what happens after that world's geography reset. Apart from where it landed, Laerakond was one of the best things about the 4th Edition FRCG.

And deities...we can hope against hope they get that right.

- OMH



You brought up Halruua, my sorespot with the spellplague......I am deeply interested in it's restoration and how it is handled.

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
Go to Top of Page

Alruane
Senior Scribe

USA
434 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2013 :  19:51:55  Show Profile Send Alruane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm just going to go with No.

" I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"
~Joneleth Irenicus

"Wisdom? My dear boy, wisdom is knowing that you do not know everything. Wisdom is realizing, a wise man ALWAYS has questions. Not answer."

~Alruane
Go to Top of Page

The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1582 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2013 :  20:55:07  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My heart says yes but my brain says no. I voted no because the setting can't afford to lose any more fans...and it WOULD lose more fans. Now, if they were to start printing material for all eras of play, so that players could decide which era to play in AND have new material to use, THAT'D BE GREAT. It's not going to happen, but it would be great.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
Go to Top of Page

Alruane
Senior Scribe

USA
434 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2013 :  20:56:25  Show Profile Send Alruane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

My heart says yes but my brain says no. I voted no because the setting can't afford to lose any more fans...and it WOULD lose more fans. Now, if they were to start printing material for all eras of play, so that players could decide which era to play in AND have new material to use, THAT'D BE GREAT. It's not going to happen, but it would be great.



Another reason fans should have a say in these changes, this would be perfect for EVERYONE!

" I wonder if you are destined to be forgotten. Will your life fade in the shadow of greater beings?"
~Joneleth Irenicus

"Wisdom? My dear boy, wisdom is knowing that you do not know everything. Wisdom is realizing, a wise man ALWAYS has questions. Not answer."

~Alruane
Go to Top of Page

Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2014 :  21:53:59  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote

I'm not going to repeat ad infinitium what many others have said, although I did read all of the comments. My take is that the Realms were pretty amazing in the 3E phase. I liked the "new" Mystra, because she humanized the gods, and her battles with Cyric, whom I happen to find an annoying deity, still play out well. But WoTC decided to hit the "self-destruct" button and kill most of the pantheon because, as I've been told by many, the game was "just too complex." Well, I learned it, and so can anyone else. Knowledge of all the lore isn't a requirement to playing D&D, and DMs can and do ignore pantheons and continents as they wish and always have. But to take them away from us, that was and remains inexcusable. The reason: they shrank the content despite the fact that people were using it, and they removed new versions of the sourcebooks for new players.

I play Neverwinter online, but I don't think of it as D&D. It may or may not use the latest 4E rules, but if that's how dumbed-down they've made the game, then it's so far below "basic" that I want no part of it. They were able to capture the 3E/3.5E rules in the original Neverwinter Nights with all of its myriad of spells and gods, and it was a lot of fun to play. The sequel, while somewhat lacking in story, was still fun. All those messy mechanics weren't difficult to grasp, and they worked hand-in-hand with the published rulebooks. I was happy to see THAC0 go away, but I digress. The game mechanics are different than the Realms themselves, and to that, I do not want a "complete" reboot. Abeir was totally unnecessary...that's why they had Spelljammer, after all. No reason to kill a planet to bring that about. But, they also killed a lot of great characters with the massive time jump. I liked the Seven Sisters, and I liked Azoun IV, Fi, and the others. Killing characters for a reason is part of artistic license, as George R. R. Martin proves, but just killing them by sweeping the timeline ahead seven decades?

Which brings me to my final point: continuity. We were introduced to "Ao" as "The Keeper of the Balance." Whether or not DMs chose to use him is irrelevant, he had absolute and total control over the world and keeping things "In Balance." He could wipe out the pantheon at will, he could create a new one. But he did all of this, if we are to believe the official, published novels, because he cared about mortals on Toril. I just don't see him letting Cyric kill his Goddess of Magic because he has a personal vendetta against her. Reset us to 3E and most (not all) people will be happy. We don't have to learn new geography, we don't have to learn a new pantheon, and the characters in the majority of books we like are still alive for us to tap as needed.

A note on cartography: we don't need highly-detailed maps of everywhere. The opening pages of the A Song of Ice and Fire series give just enough detail for us to track where things are in relationship to one another, but don't take up time explaining everything. That's what supplemental books are for, and as one who would buy them, I'd love to see them. But this notion that the core books are "overwhelming" can only be true if WoTC makes them so.

Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 23 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2017 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000