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 Reboot of the Realms for 5th edition.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6262 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2012 :  21:23:34  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Wolfhound75

The rules (Game Mechanics) of 5E/4E/3.xE/2E/1E/0E are NOT one and the same as "The Realms".

Yes, The Realms, to all of us at any rate, are certainly D&D's flagship world but ... The Realms are not the only D&D setting and the game mechanics are meant to go with all of the offered settings.
Exactly. Although the game edition and Realmslore edition is often intermarried. Destructive "edition boundaries" (which typically involve blowing up Mystra) are often inserted into the Realmslore to accomodate in-setting explanations for different rulesets (which typically center on magic systems). Dissociating the Realms edition from the D&D edition is now difficult; Realmslore must be so generic that it's of little interest, or so specific that it only suits one D&D edition, or so non-magical that it's not really the Realms at all.

Having said that, there's no particular requirement to adopt WotC's "canon" version of Realmslore over more subtle and plausible (and less spectacularly destructive) explanations for changes in game lore. I've played 4E rules in the 3E-era Realms without any problems (aside from eventually abandoning the 4E rules, as they were far too oversimplified for our tastes).

I wasn't even going to bother responding to this scroll, since the very question (and wording of the question) in the poll is uninformed and implies a number of things which aren't worth arguing over. But Wolfy's comment about Realms-vs-Game editions is still perfectly astute.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 13 Jan 2012 21:24:35
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe

Greece
569 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2012 :  23:30:36  Show Profile  Visit BARDOBARBAROS's Homepage Send BARDOBARBAROS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

My vote depends on when the reboot is. I personally would prefer rolling back to right after Cloak & Dagger and before the 3E FRCS. From that point, I'd go forward with some of the things done in 3E, change some others, and totally ignore some events.



I agree!!!

BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!


"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2)
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  01:15:58  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I believe he means an OGB-type reboot.

Unequivocally yes, then, to that. Ed and the Realms deserve nothing less.
This would be one of my ideal options for "re-starting" the Realms.

Note that I said "one" of my ideal options -- not "the" ideal option. But I'd only support this if it was [almost] wholly under the design-aegis [or as much as possible given the license with Wizards] of Ed Greenwood.

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Apex
Learned Scribe

USA
229 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  01:29:43  Show Profile  Visit Apex's Homepage Send Apex a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Faraer

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I believe he means an OGB-type reboot.

Unequivocally yes, then, to that. Ed and the Realms deserve nothing less.
This would be one of my ideal options for "re-starting" the Realms.

Note that I said "one" of my ideal options -- not "the" ideal option. But I'd only support this if it was [almost] wholly under the design-aegis [or as much as possible given the license with Wizards] of Ed Greenwood.



Another reason in favor of the reboot to the OGB is to get access to Ed's original thoughts and concepts in the Realmstime they were written for.
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

655 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  01:58:08  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So essentially those who want a reboot are those who don't seem to read the novels. So there is no attachment to the story line that has developed over the past 30 years. Does this sound about right? I mean, I will say this until I am blue in the face. A DM should not need WoTC's blessing to create a campaign straight out of the OGB. It is still there and there is a ton of lore that exists to help you out. Why do you need a full reboot? Is it not enough for WoTC to open up the timeline for developers to right material for the 1350's?
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1074 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  02:06:41  Show Profile Send Nicolai Withander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I woted yes.,.. but I think no.

It would be best I feel to just fix the damage and not delete by saying: by the way... it has all been a bad dream!!!

That would make people loose even more respect for WotC!!!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  02:08:02  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

So essentially those who want a reboot are those who don't seem to read the novels. So there is no attachment to the story line that has developed over the past 30 years. Does this sound about right?
That's not my stance at all, at least in terms of the novels. I like the post-Spellplague fiction. Probably not as much as I love the classic 90's feel of the Realms fiction, but I do enjoy what capable Realms authors are bringing to the Realms fictional mythos with each and every contribution a 4e post-Spellplague novel brings to the setting.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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Therise
Master of Realmslore

1265 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  02:11:56  Show Profile Send Therise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

So essentially those who want a reboot are those who don't seem to read the novels. So there is no attachment to the story line that has developed over the past 30 years. Does this sound about right? I mean, I will say this until I am blue in the face. A DM should not need WoTC's blessing to create a campaign straight out of the OGB. It is still there and there is a ton of lore that exists to help you out. Why do you need a full reboot? Is it not enough for WoTC to open up the timeline for developers to right material for the 1350's?


Well, I'm not sure I'd say that. As for myself, I definitely want the reboot and a total departure from 4E. As for books, I was an avid follower of the novels pre-4E. Most of the 4E books haven't hooked me, or interested me. But I really enjoyed about 80% of the pre-4E novels.


4E Realms was awful, but it's water under the Boareskyr Bridge. Let's make 5E Realms truly shine!

Edited by - Therise on 14 Jan 2012 02:13:12
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
646 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  02:20:50  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander

I woted yes.,.. but I think no.

It would be best I feel to just fix the damage and not delete by saying: by the way... it has all been a bad dream!!!

That would make people loose even more respect for WotC!!!



What exactly would you fix in order to solve the problem. Seems to me that you would have to fix so much that you might as well go and reboot the Realms to an earlier time.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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froglegg
Learned Scribe

307 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  02:36:55  Show Profile Send froglegg a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul

I love the Realms but I have never been a fan of Elminster (Sorry Ed).

Would I would like to see done is have Elminster wake up after his vision of the Spellplague and Mystra instructing him on how to prevent it but would end up costing him his life.



They don't have the stones to do that!


John

Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!

On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale

The Old Grey Box gets better with age!
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Patrakis
Learned Scribe

Canada
256 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  02:55:08  Show Profile Send Patrakis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is my vision of a Forgotten Realms that would fulfill the dream I’ve had since the first revision when we switched to 2nd edition.
Separate gaming materials from the novels.
GAMING MATERIAL
The gaming material should be ret coned to the beginning.
The gaming material should be made and inspired from the past of the realms up to a certain point, a certain year. Describe the world to us as it stands at that point. The point I would choose would not be farther than the year of the prince. The gaming material that could be published would cover:
• Geography;
• History;
• Ecology;
• Sociology;
• Economics;
• Politics;
• Religion, etc.
These would be covered in:
• Local modules;
• Regional modules;
• Kingdom modules;
• World modules;
• Dungeon modules and adventures;
• City modules;
The gaming material should offer a solid description of history and timelines that would inspire DM to develop their own future of their realms or their own version of history.
NOVEL MATERIAL
Leave it as is. No ret coned should be necessary. What is already published would represent the publisher’s view of the future of the realms from the point where the gaming material left of. They can continue to develop it in that timeframe. They can even develop a new series of novels that would flesh out some of the events of the past that were described in the history of the realms but not create new Shattering events for the sake of a new editions.
Novel could also happen in the timeframe of the gaming material or before if they are personal stories and not world shattering. Novel shouldn’t create history in the timeframe of the gaming material.
The fans of the heroes would keep their favorite iconic characters and continue to read about them as if nothing happened. Player’s and DMs would be secure in the knowledge that no exterior influence would mess with the history of the world up to a certain point. They could use the novels to create their future and simply invent their own.
I don’t know if it’s economically feasible, that’s not for me to say. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t represent the opinion of the majority here but for me, it would be the perfect gaming world.
Pat

Dancing is like standing still, but faster.
My site: http://www.patoumonde.com
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  07:58:23  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

At the end of the day, it will be the consensus they must go with, no matter what any of want individually.

I think I've only seen two others with my exact attitude/preference; Jorkens was one, can't remember the other. Basically, what we want, and what we think is best for the game (and FR) are two separate animals. They cannot afford to disenfranchise the fans they have - they tried that and we got 4e (which has lead us straight here).

If not handled delicately, 5e could blow up in their faces all over again.



Don't get me wrong, I do think what I want is the best for the game. I just don't think the please everyone idea can work without two separate products. If they go purely 4th ed.+ I couldn't care less whether the whole thing folds. My only interest is seeing as much of Eds original realms as possible.
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  08:07:34  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

So essentially those who want a reboot are those who don't seem to read the novels. So there is no attachment to the story line that has developed over the past 30 years. Does this sound about right? I mean, I will say this until I am blue in the face. A DM should not need WoTC's blessing to create a campaign straight out of the OGB. It is still there and there is a ton of lore that exists to help you out. Why do you need a full reboot? Is it not enough for WoTC to open up the timeline for developers to right material for the 1350's?



Had I been a novel reader more than a reactionary rpg'er I would say the same as you.For me its quite simple, I am as curious as you are, but for me its not the developing timeline that is the hobby its what Ed originally did or wanted. As you say, I can do whatever I want with the Realms, but that wont give me any more insight into the original realms than I already have. I might not use the information in my own game, but as a fan of the setting it would be a goldmine. This would upset a lot of fans I know, but this is my personal want and preference which is the only thing I have any reason to give.

If they did reboot and the whole thing became a playground for other designers overwriting Ed then I couldn't care less and I would never buy it.
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Light
Learned Scribe

Australia
231 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  08:16:56  Show Profile Send Light a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To address the opening topic: yes, a dark and gritty reboot.

"A true warrior needs no sword" - Thors (Vinland Saga)
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

655 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  08:28:30  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens

quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

So essentially those who want a reboot are those who don't seem to read the novels. So there is no attachment to the story line that has developed over the past 30 years. Does this sound about right? I mean, I will say this until I am blue in the face. A DM should not need WoTC's blessing to create a campaign straight out of the OGB. It is still there and there is a ton of lore that exists to help you out. Why do you need a full reboot? Is it not enough for WoTC to open up the timeline for developers to right material for the 1350's?





Had I been a novel reader more than a reactionary rpg'er I would say the same as you.For me its quite simple, I am as curious as you are, but for me its not the developing timeline that is the hobby its what Ed originally did or wanted. As you say, I can do whatever I want with the Realms, but that wont give me any more insight into the original realms than I already have. I might not use the information in my own game, but as a fan of the setting it would be a goldmine. This would upset a lot of fans I know, but this is my personal want and preference which is the only thing I have any reason to give.

If they did reboot and the whole thing became a playground for other designers overwriting Ed then I couldn't care less and I would never buy it.



And there is the dividing line. There are those who are actually invested in the story that's been told by not only Ed, but many other authors and designers. Then there are those who have been living in the proverbial Realms bunker ever since the Time of Troubles and refuse to come out until Ed WoTC seeds the Realms back to Ed.

Honestly, I don't think it's fair for those who haven't been invested in the good times and bad to ask for a reboot. Those of us who have stuck around and spent good money on all the Realms products WoTC had to offer certainly don't deserve to have everything we know and paid for swept under a rug.

I think it would be more productive for everyone to work together to make sure that the Realms going forward (spellplague and all) best captures the spirit of the OGB and the original novels they put out. Being fractured as a community is only going to confuse WoTC even more and make it harder for them to put out the best product possible.
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idilippy
Senior Scribe

USA
405 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  08:44:36  Show Profile Send idilippy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
And there is the dividing line. There are those who are actually invested in the story that's been told by not only Ed, but many other authors and designers. Then there are those who have been living in the proverbial Realms bunker ever since the Time of Troubles and refuse to come out until Ed WoTC seeds the Realms back to Ed.



Wait, did you just completely ignore The Sage and Therise talking about how they read and enjoyed novels too so that you could make a sweeping generalization about everyone not on your side? Many of us that wouldn't mind or actively want a reboot aren't "living in the proverbial Realms bunker", but have invested in stories throughout the 2e, 3e, and even 4e era. While I haven't been grabbed by most of the 4e era novels I have read a couple, and I read just about every 3e and earlier novel series. I've invested in the stories, been interested in the lore, and I would still be intrigued enough to check out the Realms in 5e if they included a reboot. I would like having the 2e and 3e canon be laid out in the future waiting to happen, even if that meant the Spellplague was as well, if that's what it takes to get WotC producing new stories and lore about earlier Realms eras.

Edited by - idilippy on 14 Jan 2012 08:45:20
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see
Learned Scribe

190 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  08:53:20  Show Profile Send see a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Let the novels do whatever the Abyss they want with their stories. Publish all game material for noon, Midsummer Day, 1357 DR.
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  08:55:15  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens

quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

So essentially those who want a reboot are those who don't seem to read the novels. So there is no attachment to the story line that has developed over the past 30 years. Does this sound about right? I mean, I will say this until I am blue in the face. A DM should not need WoTC's blessing to create a campaign straight out of the OGB. It is still there and there is a ton of lore that exists to help you out. Why do you need a full reboot? Is it not enough for WoTC to open up the timeline for developers to right material for the 1350's?





Had I been a novel reader more than a reactionary rpg'er I would say the same as you.For me its quite simple, I am as curious as you are, but for me its not the developing timeline that is the hobby its what Ed originally did or wanted. As you say, I can do whatever I want with the Realms, but that wont give me any more insight into the original realms than I already have. I might not use the information in my own game, but as a fan of the setting it would be a goldmine. This would upset a lot of fans I know, but this is my personal want and preference which is the only thing I have any reason to give.

If they did reboot and the whole thing became a playground for other designers overwriting Ed then I couldn't care less and I would never buy it.



And there is the dividing line. There are those who are actually invested in the story that's been told by not only Ed, but many other authors and designers. Then there are those who have been living in the proverbial Realms bunker ever since the Time of Troubles and refuse to come out until Ed WoTC seeds the Realms back to Ed.

Honestly, I don't think it's fair for those who haven't been invested in the good times and bad to ask for a reboot. Those of us who have stuck around and spent good money on all the Realms products WoTC had to offer certainly don't deserve to have everything we know and paid for swept under a rug.

I think it would be more productive for everyone to work together to make sure that the Realms going forward (spellplague and all) best captures the spirit of the OGB and the original novels they put out. Being fractured as a community is only going to confuse WoTC even more and make it harder for them to put out the best product possible.



I agree that it isn't fair to them at all(hence my two book preference), but it is fair to me. Their ideal Realms is not fair to me either by the same logic. If I had liked WotC Realms products I would say the same thing as you, but as I can only speak for myself i will take an extremely reactionary view which I know will be a bad idea for a lot of others.

As for going forward and modifying; this might be a good idea and it might be fun for a lot of people, but it will never bring me back as a customer.

I have full respect for your opinion on this subject and can clearly see where you are coming from, but the unfortunate truth is that we want very different things from FR and although both points are as valid we will never be happy with the same development.
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2904 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  09:08:08  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
People need to be careful in what they wish for. WotC could reboot the Realms and add all of the 5E stuff(Races, classes, feats, spells, ectera) to it. So you could get A NEW OGB AND A BUNCH OF OTHER STUFF WITH IT. Think long and hard about that. People say look at Dark Sun, yeah WotC added a bunch of 4E stuff to it with it's reboot for 4E.

IMO the reboot talk is an underhanded swipe/jab at 4E.

My two coppers...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe

USA
586 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  13:06:35  Show Profile  Visit Tyrant's Homepage Send Tyrant a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

People need to be careful in what they wish for. WotC could reboot the Realms and add all of the 5E stuff(Races, classes, feats, spells, ectera) to it. So you could get A NEW OGB AND A BUNCH OF OTHER STUFF WITH IT. Think long and hard about that. People say look at Dark Sun, yeah WotC added a bunch of 4E stuff to it with it's reboot for 4E.

IMO the reboot talk is an underhanded swipe/jab at 4E.

My two coppers...


Exactly Brimstone. It's Pandora's Box.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code

Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  13:22:12  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

So essentially those who want a reboot are those who don't seem to read the novels. So there is no attachment to the story line that has developed over the past 30 years.

Perhaps. But I can't speak for others. I don't want a reboot for two reasons. One, I like some changes in the current edition. And, whatever it is in the previous three editions that are crucial to the setting and most favored by fans can be integrated in the present timeline. For instance, one doesn't have to go back to the 3rd edition to see Halruaa again. A 4E novel can simply tell a story during Halruaa's glory days, the events that led to its destruction, who survived it, where those survivors are now, and what they have been doing in relation to the story's two part narration.

Every beginning has an end.
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3404 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  13:22:57  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While I vehemently disagree with a "reboot", I did hear that Dark Sun was one of the most popular and successful settings produced by 4E and had brought in a TON of elements that made people want to play in that setting than in previous incarnations. I think that the relatively low lore and overall underestimated setting of Dark Sun revitalized it with the new Edition and revitalized it overall. The same cannot be said of the Forgotten Realms, however.

I don't want to see anyone's work invalidated just because people don't like certain aspects of the Realms that have been there for over 10 years. IMO, a reboot isn't necessary in the least but I do wish they still produced novels set in the pre-spellplague times and finish out many of our beloved heroes and villians stories.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Tasker Daze
Learned Scribe

80 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  14:36:24  Show Profile Send Tasker Daze a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan


I don't want to see anyone's work invalidated just because people don't like certain aspects of the Realms that have been there for over 10 years.



Like Ao?

The designers of 4E already invalidated the owrk of others.

For or against something doesn't matter. Just don't be the hind-end of a rothe about it.
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe

Spain
726 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  15:04:09  Show Profile  Click to see Thelonius's MSN Messenger address Send Thelonius a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mmmmm.... tricky, ofc for most of the players, or at least a great amount of them the answer would be a yes please, but I think that too many things have been already done for a reboot, or a "Dallas" moment, when everything was just a dream of a deranged Volo, like some scribe said a time ago. So I'd go for the No for a reboot, but Yes to a "redesign".

"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3404 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2012 :  15:52:55  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tasker Daze

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan


I don't want to see anyone's work invalidated just because people don't like certain aspects of the Realms that have been there for over 10 years.



Like Ao?

The designers of 4E already invalidated the owrk of others.



Ao played THAT big of an aspect in your Realms campaigns? But in all honestly, I fully believed he was still there (in 4E) doing what he usually did....nothing. So where did it say he was gone?

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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