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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Jun 2012 : 17:21:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
Like you say, money talks. If Ed's Realms book sells well, we're likely to see more of that type of product sooner or later. Whether it's an alternate timeline or not, it's bound to be a dead sexy product.
If Ed's Realms (the upcoming product) is actually a separate timeline, without the ToT and Spellplague, really and truly Greenwood's home game Realms, I will support it by buying multiple copies and giving them to friends. I'll advocate for it to supplant the current canon Realms, and constantly ask for support of it in DDI and other publications.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2012 : 17:22:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
I cant really see the troll argument being valid, even if I don't agree that a reboot wouldn't work. Argumentative yes, but not troll.
He's a self-admitted troll. He's Mr_Miscellany and Sanishiver. We've seen his opinion on this - on multiple accounts - so many times now that it's a broken record.
He posts like it's the first time any of us have ever heard his opinion, and does it over and over and over... in multiple threads.
There's no "discussion" there, just "No, you're wrong" often followed by insults or subtle character digs, or worse at times.
I am painfully aware of who he is, but argumentative and repetitive is not the same as trolling; there were others making more or less the same claims as him this time though. |
No Canon, more stories, more Realms. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2012 : 17:27:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
... but argumentative and repetitive is not the same as trolling; there were others making more or less the same claims as him this time though.
Well, I'm bloody tired of being shouted down at every opportunity. I'm tired of seeing my fellow fans being shouted down over and over (often quite rudely) for the same thing, from the same people, for the zillionth time.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2012 : 17:28:39
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| And I should prefer to move past the discussion of trolling. If it keeps up, the breather period I asked for will be forcibly implemented by locking this scroll for a time. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2012 : 17:57:22
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
the version I'd seek is a combination of both that will make both sides happy enough to pick it up look at it. See Ed,s name on it first, skim through it and buy it.
Then there is also the risk that the compromise will make none happy and irritate everyone to some degree. No matter what WotC decides to do it is a gamble. |
No Canon, more stories, more Realms. |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2012 : 18:12:58
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| How the excellent and interesting changes described in Mr. Xenophon's post could be construed as wanting a system reboot I don't quite understand. I think his ideas for world evolution and change by having events unfold outside the scope of what's officially released is at the heart of why we play this game. |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2012 : 18:18:38
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
Life's a dance you learn as you go somes times you lead and sometimes you follow- John Michael montgomery
Ugh. No.
Clearly, Life is a Highway, not a sappy C&W dance.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2012 : 19:06:10
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| Right... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2012 : 01:32:13
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If he is Mr. Misc, he and I have butted heads many times... but we usually tend to agree with each other when we are forced to reduce our arguments down to pure logic, or when bouncing Realmslore back-and-forth. I've said this before - Trolls are not always wrong.
I think that what individuals want isn't always whats best for the IP. We had a very select group of people make all the decisions the last time, and thats why we got a Realms most fans don't like. I'm sure most of us would have gotten the same results had we been in charge; everyone wants something different out of FR, and when you try to boil it down to 2-3 very specific flavors, it just doesn't work.
There are a select few designers that 'get' The Forgotten Realms, and they could probably do a good job, but it will never be perfect, because everyone has different tastes (as it should be). All I ask at this point is for them to create quality Realmslore, whatever the era. No more creating RSEs (and other events) just to pad-out novel sales - thats damaging to the franchise. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2012 : 05:24:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
Like you say, money talks. If Ed's Realms book sells well, we're likely to see more of that type of product sooner or later. Whether it's an alternate timeline or not, it's bound to be a dead sexy product.
If Ed's Realms (the upcoming product) is actually a separate timeline, without the ToT and Spellplague, really and truly Greenwood's home game Realms, I will support it by buying multiple copies and giving them to friends. I'll advocate for it to supplant the current canon Realms, and constantly ask for support of it in DDI and other publications.
All indications are that it is a separate 'timeline' from the Shattered Realms.
This being the case, I will be buying three copies for myself (one for common use, one for the library shelf, and one shrink-wrapped and stored away, just in case), one for my son (who is presently forbidden such things at Annapolis), and badgering several friends who I know are Realms aficionados to each buy at least one copy.
This will be a far cry from 4th Edition, where I told them all that if they had a deep-seated need to look at the material, to save their money and come look at my books. I think one of them has looked through them while he was over to help me move some furniture, and he hasn't said anything about it, then or since.
Whether you consider it a 'reboot' or an 'alternate timeline', good money says that this will be the publication to put your money into. 
- OMH |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2012 : 05:53:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
Like you say, money talks. If Ed's Realms book sells well, we're likely to see more of that type of product sooner or later. Whether it's an alternate timeline or not, it's bound to be a dead sexy product.
If Ed's Realms (the upcoming product) is actually a separate timeline, without the ToT and Spellplague, really and truly Greenwood's home game Realms, I will support it by buying multiple copies and giving them to friends. I'll advocate for it to supplant the current canon Realms, and constantly ask for support of it in DDI and other publications.
All indications are that it is a separate 'timeline' from the Shattered Realms.
This being the case, I will be buying three copies for myself (one for common use, one for the library shelf, and one shrink-wrapped and stored away, just in case), one for my son (who is presently forbidden such things at Annapolis), and badgering several friends who I know are Realms aficionados to each buy at least one copy.
This will be a far cry from 4th Edition, where I told them all that if they had a deep-seated need to look at the material, to save their money and come look at my books. I think one of them has looked through them while he was over to help me move some furniture, and he hasn't said anything about it, then or since.
Whether you consider it a 'reboot' or an 'alternate timeline', good money says that this will be the publication to put your money into.
- OMH
Excellent!  And oh my Annapolis. Yes, quite restrictive, but a truly first-rate education if you're referring to what I think you're referring to.  Having a kid get in there is a testament to preparation, hard work, and good parenting. 
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2012 : 06:12:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
Like you say, money talks. If Ed's Realms book sells well, we're likely to see more of that type of product sooner or later. Whether it's an alternate timeline or not, it's bound to be a dead sexy product.
If Ed's Realms (the upcoming product) is actually a separate timeline, without the ToT and Spellplague, really and truly Greenwood's home game Realms, I will support it by buying multiple copies and giving them to friends. I'll advocate for it to supplant the current canon Realms, and constantly ask for support of it in DDI and other publications.
All indications are that it is a separate 'timeline' from the Shattered Realms.
This being the case, I will be buying three copies for myself (one for common use, one for the library shelf, and one shrink-wrapped and stored away, just in case), one for my son (who is presently forbidden such things at Annapolis), and badgering several friends who I know are Realms aficionados to each buy at least one copy.
This will be a far cry from 4th Edition, where I told them all that if they had a deep-seated need to look at the material, to save their money and come look at my books. I think one of them has looked through them while he was over to help me move some furniture, and he hasn't said anything about it, then or since.
Whether you consider it a 'reboot' or an 'alternate timeline', good money says that this will be the publication to put your money into.
- OMH
Excellent! And oh my Annapolis. Yes, quite restrictive, but a truly first-rate education if you're referring to what I think you're referring to. Having a kid get in there is a testament to preparation, hard work, and good parenting.
It does indeed mean what you think. I have been told that I'm even more insufferable than normal of late. Regardless, thank you for the kind words. He's really busted his tail to get there. His players have lost a top-rate DM, but my sympathies extend only so far.
For the first time in years, I have been able to say "I want THIS for my birthday". Sire Greenwood's new book has given me great optimism for the future of our beloved Realms.
- OMH |
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2012 : 08:41:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
I don't think one should lend much weight to this commentary on previous design. Of course when you're bringing out a new product, you try to champion it over the old.
Why not just champion it over the real competitors like Warhammer and the like. Why would Wizards compete with itself? I have always found it bizarre that you couldn’t go to the Wizards website, and buy any of their old products. At the bookstore if you wanted anything that didn’t have Drizzit in it you have to go to Ebay.
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
So you're view on the Realms is more important than some kid that started reading the books these past couple of years? I don't understand why is has to be an all-or-nothing approach.
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
Posts like this is why anti-continuity bled its way into the setting. You're saying people have to like the Realms the way you do, or else it's invalid. This is the highest degree of arrogance, and not something that will ever improve/advance the setting. 
To put it another way
I have been a faithful regular at this restaurant since 1987. It’s fantastic. It’s not the only place I eat, but it’s the only place that I can be found faithfully once or twice a month. Over the years I found that the best dish is the Surf and Turf (read that continuity & lore). If you were to stack the dishes one on top of another it would be darn high (read that as hundreds of dollars of Dragon magazine, Dungeon Magazine, just about every novel, and Just about every Forgotten Realms product).
Now I understand good help is hard to find, and every several years a new chef will be brought in, and make his version of Surf & Turf (Read that as new editions & RSE). I roll with it, and I give it a chance. And I keep coming back even though it’s not quite as good, but I am okay, because the Surf and Turf doesn’t have to have salsa unless I want to go a little crazy. Remember, the first chef was the best (Read that Old Grey Box), but I stick with the restaurant because I like the ambiance (continuation of the setting), and the food isn’t too much of a change.
Then one day (read that as 4E), I come in, and my favorite table is gone. The Surf and Turf is gone, and there’s new customer trying the Peanut and Jelly Sampler at the newly installed buffet, and he’s still got his nose tuned up at it because it’s to complicated for his palette (Read that as 4th Edition… simplification).
I ask what’s up, and am told the restaurant is trying to bring in new customers. Mr New Prospective Customer was walking by, and the owner talked to him for 5 minutes, and bam. He waves his arm over the new buffet and tells me I’ll love it.
Sorry, I tried. I really did. But I’ll come by occasionally and take a look at what the special are (read that as browse what products that might relate to what I am doing), and I might come in there is something that strikes me as worth it but by and by why should I be a faithful customer here?
The funny thing is we know where the Old Chef is. Hint: He’s in a library in Canada. Get him back in the kitchen; let him take the menu where he wanted it to go. I am not some bloody snob, but I don’t want peanut butter and jelly leftovers from a forgotten doggie bag.
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Let me say this so it's clear: YOUR GAME IS NOT A CANON GAME. The second you create characters, your game isn't canon, because those characters don't exist in the actual canon sourcebooks. If they do someday get "canonized," and they're exactly the way you ran them, and/or the events of your game make it into a sourcebook, then and only then were you running (past-tense) a canon game.
Actually my game runs on top of a canon setting. They run on top of a consistent background. The background that is presented is built on hundreds of dollars of products. My expectation is that new product fits neatly onto the existing material. Like a map edge neatly lines up with another map edge. It’s bizarre that I have to point out that I mean this in a figurative and literal sense.
For my part if I decide to edit my map that’s on me, but as professionals who make money off selling these products, well - yes, I have an expectation that latest professional map lines up with the last professional map.
If the setting is not continuous what exactly is my incentive to continue with it? And if the stance taken is that these New Editions don’t have to line up with previous versions, then why not just go all in and make it another setting entirely?
Ahhh, but WotC did that. They called it Eberron. I can’t say definitively how that’s going, but I can tell you it’s not on the bookshelves at my bookstore.
But let’s say that’s unfair. Then why not put out yet another separate setting? A brand new map per se. One without those complicated topo lines, or even an arrow pointing north. A new map only with colors found in a Crayola box. Kidding aside. Give the new customers what they want, but don’t make me subsidize it. It also strikes me as odd that newcomers complain about too much lore, when they can’t buy the old lore. For example, you can only find the OGB used on Ebay.
I buy new product for the few bits of lore I might get out of it. Mere crumbs at this point made enjoyable by some very talented authors. But I believe I’ll have a use for it as a timeline to be prevented by heroes. So I am still buying, just not everything the way I had been, and now with an intention I really never expected.
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
This thread is of no use to anyone who is forging their own path in the Realms, yes?
It’s useful to me in that I’ll pull a win out of this either way. I’ll wave these editions at my OGB players via future-seeing crystal ball, and say “See, go through the time gate, kill Cyric as a mortal, or this will happen.”
If the reboot happens there’s my new fixed timeline. If not, I’ll do it myself. Because I am looking at 64 pages of “One Canon, One Story, One Realms (5e)”, and the scientists answer to fixing this Frankenstein monster is to bring back the old iron neck bolts for the new brass ones, which causes consternation for another scientist who wants copper neck bolts. But no matter; let’s move on to discuss replacing those hands with claws, which opens a new debate about how many digits on each claw and how long are the nails.
At 64 pages it seems clear to me that… SURPRISE…actually things can be made worse by trying to fix 4E. Once you mash a square-shaped setting a round hole, trying to mash it back into it’s original square is pretty amazing but go ahead.
FWIW as much as I disagree with the "One Realms" solution, I appreciate Erik and James taking the time to discuss their Point of view.
But IMHO Wizards should go both routes.
Carry on 4th Edition into 5th
AND
Do a separate line with a reboot to OGB or thereabouts.
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Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
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snotereceorlas
Acolyte
United Kingdom
4 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2012 : 10:33:50
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Publishing Realms-based novels
Sorry to take so long to reply. Won’t bore you with the details but I have a definitely-not-D&D-loving wife whose reactions need managing (ie: I can’t play all the time or get on the forums as much as I would like. I know that sounds bad…).
Furthermore... I hope people don't mind me just putting this post up almost out of nowhere (last mentioned on p18).
Thank you Matt James, Wooly Rupert and Lord Karsus for taking time to make helpful replies.
I might have been hurt by your reply Venger, if I wouldn’t have been tempted to think like you did in your position. It would have been a shame if I had been offended since I've found myself in agreement with your posts. It did occur to me that the post might seem a bit whacky but I had hoped that the way I wrote it might give some indication that I was being serious.
Anyway that’s not important.
I should say straight out that I have a novel in another genre that so far has the green light but needs a lot of work to complete. A lot. My brother has six novels out already in the UK (one is available in German and Spanish) and we are going to the book launch of his seventh on Saturday (my wife is away so that’s two hours of gaming time down the pan). His position makes it easier for me to get stuff looked at. So I am serious. This makes the advice of Wooly Rupert and Matt James to the point – get established elsewhere first.
The fact is I really AM serious about the realms and writing a story set there. I think we are a bit out of the loop in the UK (well probably a lot actually) so it would be even harder to get noticed. Like I don't think i'll bump into Ed Greenwood at a conference over here and as far as I am aware RA Salvatore has no plans to come and visit. (And why should he? He doesn’t need to.)
I had understood that unsolicited fiction set in already established worlds will be entertained. The information on writers guidelines is unchanged since 2007 http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/writersguidelines
I wrote the stuff in the very beginning for my two eldest sons, and as I wrote it up into an first draft that might be acceptable to a publisher I realised I wanted to be clear it was for the normal adult D&D audience. So the work so far, Lord Karsus, was done for pleasure and there is more to do (so your concern not to waste time was quite in place). In fact my eldest son urged me to make some attempt to get it into print since he has been following the ups and downs of the realms almost as keenly as I have.
At the uging of my eldest son I do game FoW (we have a very fine and extensive US 2nd Armored Division) and we are all looking forward to the new Bolt Action rules. For myself I have embarrassingly large Roman, medieval and AWI collections of figures and a growing ACW one.
So thanks for the answers. I really do appreciate it. Now I’ve found the forum and discussions like this some of my anxieties are gone. The Realms and D&D are, for me, almost inseparable. So let’s raise a flagon and hope we get our Realms back!
Andrew
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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2012 : 15:12:01
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| I'm all for a reboot back to 2e. |
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LordXenophon
Learned Scribe
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2012 : 00:45:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
I'm all for a reboot back to 2e.
Hear, hear!
There seems to be a bit of confusion about whether I would ever buy new Forgotten Realms materials. The answer is, it depends on what they publish.
I am simply NOT in the market for a new core book that contradicts what my campaign is based on. History is history. It's too late to change it.
I AM in the market for completely new material that fits in to what I already have. If they want my money, there are plenty of ways they can get it. There are still lots of blank spots on the map, monsters we don't know enough about, billions of player-created spells and items they could make official, and quite a few playable races that could use their own handbooks. The Arcane Age is full of locations which would make awesome dungeons in a Forgotten Realms campaign, if anyone ever finds the ruins. Elminster's Ecologies don't cover even 1% of what they could cover and neither do Volo's Guides. The various orders and minions of the other religions haven't been detailed any where near as well as those of Mystra and Iyachtu Xvim. There's more than enough opportunity to publish without a reset, right there.
And that doesn't even cover the one area where I think WotC is doing better than TSR did - adventure modules. WotC has always been good at cranking out the adventures and they can sell a good module to any of us. I don't mind having to convert it to 2e and match it to my established history, if it's good enough.
One other thing I have to say - accusing other people of trolling is in itself a form of trolling. Please don't do it. |
Disintegration is in the eye of the Beholder. |
Edited by - LordXenophon on 27 Jun 2012 01:33:44 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2012 : 04:47:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
I'm all for a reboot back to 2e.
My ideal Realms would be rebooted to the day after Cloak & Dagger. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1265 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2012 : 04:56:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Erendriel Durothil
I'm all for a reboot back to 2e.
Got my vote! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2012 : 05:22:31
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Why wouldn't an earlier time-period work? Like the pre-1e (Edwardian) Realms? You know - the ones the knights of Myth Drannor adventured in, and Alusair was a little girl (and still very much alive, DAMMIT).
That doesn't have to invalidate any prior lore, and it also doesn't have to acknowledge it (its up to you to decide what you want to happen in your home game). However, as for the canon (novel) Realms, it would all be canon (until over-written by newer lore, which shouldn't ever happen... but does).
pre-1e (0e), or post-3e (NOT 4e) are my ideal choices (since I realize a complete reboot is never going to happen). Both eras have many interesting possibilities, and are close-enough to the 'known' era (1e/2e/3e) to still be relevant to most folks (in other words, 95% of your sourcebooks would still be valid, unlike in 4e). I'm hoping this "Elminster's Realms" will be a prequel product, and not some post-4e crap. The cover with the dark-elf Elminster is giving me a very bad feeling....
However - as I have said numerous times already - what I want, and what I think they should do aren't the same thing. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Jun 2012 05:24:51 |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2012 : 12:35:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm hoping this "Elminster's Realms" will be a prequel product, and not some post-4e crap. The cover with the dark-elf Elminster is giving me a very bad feeling....
However - as I have said numerous times already - what I want, and what I think they should do aren't the same thing.
As I understand it (and I may not be totally accurate here), the 'Elminster's Realms' book is Ed's campaign before he sold it to TSR, plus the way that home campaign has evolved since, unaltered by anything TSR/WotC has done. So we may not see certain elements that were present even in the Old Grey Box. While the Moonshaes (for example) may be present geographically, it is possible they are a far cry from what we know in almost every other respect.
I for one am incredibly curious as to what Ed's original vision for the Realms is/was. I have been since the day I read that his home campaign is based on his original vision, not anything after the TSR sale. And by all appearances, we get to find out what it is. The fourth quarter of this year cannot come too soon for me.
- OMH |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2012 : 12:43:21
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| Wotc are going to cover multiple eras, they said that a few months ago, why all this talk about a reboot? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2012 : 18:13:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Wotc are going to cover multiple eras, they said that a few months ago, why all this talk about a reboot?
Perhaps because we are fans of the setting and we have definite ideas for what we want? Perhaps because we don't know what WotC considers supporting multiple eras? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Venger
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2012 : 18:17:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Wotc are going to cover multiple eras, they said that a few months ago, why all this talk about a reboot?
Multiple eras doesn't change the fact that many don't like the Spellplague Realms, period. Nor does multiple era support solve the original problem, which is that many people wanted to see the 3E Realms evolve as it would have otherwise. You can't have that because eventually as you advance it you're going to run right into the Spellplague Realms. I'd prefer a Realms that can move past the date in which the Spellplague occured without the Spellplague existing. |
"Beware what you say when you speak of magic, wizard, or you shall see who has the greater power." |
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LordXenophon
Learned Scribe
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2012 : 22:09:36
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That is why, in my version of the Realms, Mystra is still Midnight. I just skipped that entirely.
And further change happened this weekend. One of my players is well enough versed in Realmslore to have realized that the gate to Avernus under Castle Dragonspear is a Holiest of Holies of the Church of Mystra. Once they deal with what destroyed the strine to Tempus, they want to replace it with a temple to Mystra. I just might allow it to happen, if they do a good enough job of greasing the wheels of bureaucracy. |
Disintegration is in the eye of the Beholder. |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2012 : 22:20:30
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| I want a reboot to the Grey Box. That's my deep down desire and wish. I don't, however, know if this is even remotely feasible as a business plan. I often get into arguments here not because I'm a fanboi of the latest Realms, but because the Realms won't get supported at all if they only cater to fans like us. It's just not possible. They need to infuse new crazy ideas all the time in order to keep cash flowing. Continuity is a minimal benefit to them at all. This is why they got rid of continuity editors. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2012 : 22:27:44
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Ew... The ''continuously introducing crazy ideas, no matter what'' part is not exactly encouraging for the One Realms goal...
That is if for ''crazy ideas'' you mean RSEs, godly dramas and continuity breaking retcons (etc...). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 27 Jun 2012 22:30:01 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2012 : 23:05:00
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Ideas can be intro'ed without being crazy ideas, and it can be done while maintaining continuity.
I find it constantly irksome to be told that what was done before can't be done now. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 27 Jun 2012 23:06:31 |
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snotereceorlas
Acolyte
United Kingdom
4 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2012 : 14:19:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Wotc are going to cover multiple eras, they said that a few months ago, why all this talk about a reboot?
Perhaps because we are fans of the setting and we have definite ideas for what we want? Perhaps because we don't know what WotC considers supporting multiple eras?
Multiple timelines in theory could be run, of course. But to get this clear: mulitple timelines means at least one with Spellplague and one where it didn't happen - does it? When i first read "multiple timelines" i thought we would have a supported campaign in the Arcane Age, another set in 1000DR and so on. i think i got the wrong end of the stick (as often).
In point of fact i love the history of the realms just as... well, history. i have bought lots and lots of FR material for no other reason than i wanted to find out what happened when, or who did what in 1026 in Waterdeep etc. This includes 3e/4e and earlier. Lots of my money going on WotC products that i had no strict intention to put to any immediate use.
quote:
Originally posted by Venger
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Wotc are going to cover multiple eras, they said that a few months ago, why all this talk about a reboot?
Multiple eras doesn't change the fact that many don't like the Spellplague Realms, period. Nor does multiple era support solve the original problem, which is that many people wanted to see the 3E Realms evolve as it would have otherwise. You can't have that because eventually as you advance it you're going to run right into the Spellplague Realms. I'd prefer a Realms that can move past the date in which the Spellplague occured without the Spellplague existing.
I would prefer to move through the spellplague and find a way for some plucky adventurers to bring healing to the realms, so people in Cormyr, for instance, can say: 'The spellplague? I remember that. It was nasty. Just as well everything's alright now thanks to that Cleric and his sister...'
(Cleric and sister - the two main characters in my novel!)
A big problem to my mind is what happens to all the fiction written by RA Salvatore and all the others about the spellplague and its effects? Bruneor and most of his friends are now in a kind of private paradise and we have lost them... and so on.
Andrew
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2012 : 06:15:50
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Wow, I joined this conversation late. Go me. I have not read through the whole thread, so forgive me if there is repetition. Like many, I was not happy with 4e, mainly for the killing of some of the gods and the time jump. While I wish it never happened, and while a reboot would be good in some respects, it would also be a big slap in the face for the authors/designers who worked in 4e, and there were some good novels that came out of 4e (mechanics don't really apply to me since I mainly read the novels). There were ones I greatly enjoyed, and I read them because I wanted to know what happens. And since I have all these novels, to suddenly have books on my shelf that imply these events never happened would be...weird. Besides, how far back would the retcon go? Would the ToT never have happened? And I actually LIKED the reclamation of Myth Drannor, thank you. Or, would it just go back to 1385 and something other than the Spellplague happen? If there -was- going to be a retcon, this is where I personally think it should start. But, again, this would be a jab at all the post-Spellplague books.
About there being support for all eras, and again, for me, this concerns the novels: in theory, this is a good idea, because it would allow authors to write about things they hadn't before, and would give those who don't want to know what happens in 4e-5e some "new material" to read. But, at least for me, say something happened in a certain area in 4e--or even 5e--that wasn't very pleasing. If we read a story that took place pre-Spellplague, I'd be like "well, this is great, but this place gets murderized later". That would make for a hard read. Granted, I wouldn't have to read it if I didn't want to, but the fact is it'd still be there. I'm sure people disagree with me, and I know I've said something along these lines before, but since this thread is discussing such things, I thought I'd share my views.
I think the reason why so many people are wary of 5e is because of what happened in 4e. They don't want to have another let-down. I myself am wary, but it is the Realms, so I will give it a chance. There are novels I'm waiting on sequels for, anyway. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Reboot of the Realms for 5th edition.
