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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 13:51:56
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Poll Question:
Would you like to see a complete reboot of the Forgotten Realms for 5th edition D&D?
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“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 13:58:48
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| Why another poll for this? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 14:10:42
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Probably to make distilling the replies easier.
Would I like to see it? Yes
Do I think its the best solution business-wise? No |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 14:14:12
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There are so many things to consider before a reboot can or should be done. But as of the moment, my vote is no. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 14:14:27
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| I don't know what you mean by a reboot, Shadowsoul -- the term is being used inconsistently in other threads. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 14:37:19
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| Dejavu |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 14:48:28
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| Yes... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 14:54:48
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I believe he means an OGB-type reboot.
Krash mentioned rebooting to an earlier period, which I do find intriguing. I don't know if that is feasible, but it is intriguing. The date he suggested would run us smack into the 1e wall of lore very soon. On the other hand, we get to see many of the older characters we grew to love when they were young and spry, or even children. Doesn't most of Ed's Knights of Myth Drannor stories take place in that earlier time?
The big problem I see (for DMs) will be players that want to stop certain things from happening (see the other thread where one returned DM is going through that now, having 4e characters traveling back to 3e).
But there were a bunch of interesting things going on then, so I would be acceptable to that solution. People like Archmages, Liches, and Chosen would be the same, so it would still 'feel like home'. We might even discover Filfaeril's interesting back-story. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Jan 2012 17:15:40 |
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Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 15:03:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I believe he means an OGB-type reboot.
Krash mentioned rebooting to an earlier period, which I do find intriguing. I don't know if that is feasible, but it is intriguing. The date he suggested would run us smack into the 1e wall of lore very soon. On the other hand, we get to see many of the older characters we grew to love when they were young and spry, or even children. Doesn't most of Ed's Knights of Myth Drannor stories take place in that earlier time?
The big problem I see (for DMs) will be players that want to stop certain things from happening (see the other thread where one returned DM is going through that now, having 4e characters traveling back to 3e).
But there were a bunch of interesting things going on then, so I would be acceptable to that solution. People like Archmages, Liches, and Chosen would completely the same, so it would still 'feel like home'. We might even discover Filfaeril's interesting back-story.
I think the reboot would work great, if coupled with a renewed availability of all the supplements that came after it (probably just in pdf and/or print on demand form). This would give us roughly 30 years of pre-Spellplague Realms to work with and get back to Ed's original vision for the Realms. It also doesn't necessarily invalidate the 4E, since that could happen in the future. I would couple this by asking the authors to keep future novels to either known (but not detailed) events that happened during that 30 year period or (and probably more so) detailing the Realms history through novels.
Of course, I would also couple this with a return to the original 2E ruleset and basically turn D&D into a stable game that wouldn't change in the future (and the only Realms changes would then be the lore fleshing out of the pre-1380 period). |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 15:05:09
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I love the Realms but I have never been a fan of Elminster (Sorry Ed).
Would I would like to see done is have Elminster wake up after his vision of the Spellplague and Mystra instructing him on how to prevent it but would end up costing him his life. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 15:07:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Apex
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I believe he means an OGB-type reboot.
Krash mentioned rebooting to an earlier period, which I do find intriguing. I don't know if that is feasible, but it is intriguing. The date he suggested would run us smack into the 1e wall of lore very soon. On the other hand, we get to see many of the older characters we grew to love when they were young and spry, or even children. Doesn't most of Ed's Knights of Myth Drannor stories take place in that earlier time?
The big problem I see (for DMs) will be players that want to stop certain things from happening (see the other thread where one returned DM is going through that now, having 4e characters traveling back to 3e).
But there were a bunch of interesting things going on then, so I would be acceptable to that solution. People like Archmages, Liches, and Chosen would completely the same, so it would still 'feel like home'. We might even discover Filfaeril's interesting back-story.
I think the reboot would work great, if coupled with a renewed availability of all the supplements that came after it (probably just in pdf and/or print on demand form). This would give us roughly 30 years of pre-Spellplague Realms to work with and get back to Ed's original vision for the Realms. It also doesn't necessarily invalidate the 4E, since that could happen in the future. I would couple this by asking the authors to keep future novels to either known (but not detailed) events that happened during that 30 year period or (and probably more so) detailing the Realms history through novels.
Of course, I would also couple this with a return to the original 2E ruleset and basically turn D&D into a stable game that wouldn't change in the future (and the only Realms changes would then be the lore fleshing out of the pre-1380 period).
I think a reboot would actually work best with the 4th edition realms because let's face it, there isn't really that much material out for the Realms. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 15:34:36
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| Simply put: NO. Nein. Nyet. Non. Nullis, Não, and in a bunch of other no words througout the world. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 15:42:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Simply put: NO. Nein. Nyet. Non. Nullis, Não, and in a bunch of other no words througout the world.
Ugui is no in Mongolian  |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Edited by - Artemas Entreri on 13 Jan 2012 15:43:35 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 15:51:08
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| Nope. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 16:34:01
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| No. As much as I dislike many of the changes with the advent of the 4e Realms, I think the focus should be smoothing over those rough edges, and moving forward. Also, I think a public apology is due to all of the Realms fans who were [insert your personal negative adjective(s) here] by the changes. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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He left it dead, and with its head
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 16:41:01
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A mountain of yes. With an endless field of flowers that bloom tiny yeses in rainbow colors. Light summer rain that pitter-pats "yes" in Morse code.
While a dancing Julie Andrews sings the "Yes!" song.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 17:25:05
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At the end of the day, it will be the consensus they must go with, no matter what any of want individually.
I think I've only seen two others with my exact attitude/preference; Jorkens was one, can't remember the other. Basically, what we want, and what we think is best for the game (and FR) are two separate animals. They cannot afford to disenfranchise the fans they have - they tried that and we got 4e (which has lead us straight here).
If not handled delicately, 5e could blow up in their faces all over again. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 17:28:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I believe he means an OGB-type reboot.
Unequivocally yes, then, to that. Ed and the Realms deserve nothing less. We've got used, like prisoners, to TSR and Wizards' blatant and cumulative wastes, abuses, corruptions of his nearly peerless creativity -- but there's just no comparison between the imaginative density and fecundity, the thematic coherence of the 1340s and pre-Godswar 1350s DR, one of the great secondary-world-building feats of the twentieth century, to the later decades, a textbook example of John Clute's sense of thinning. |
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Wolfhound75
Learned Scribe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 17:28:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Light summer rain that pitter-pats "yes" in Morse code.
.... . ... .... . ... .... . ... Continue ad nauseum until your heart is content!
I'm mixed. On one hand, I like the joking anecdote I came up with for the Precipice scroll but, I temper the desire to revert to all 2E lore with the knowledge that WizBro has already done one major reboot and look at all the canonical changes that has caused.
I'm tired of needing to retcon nearly every other thing and if a full reboot ensues, I fear we may be looking at even more of the same. Instead of two editions not lining up, it will be THREE editions. I forsee massive headaches lining all of the holes up.
On the other hand, maybe a big meteor just literally "knocks us back to last Tuesday" and the reboot brings the 2E lore back strong.
Hard to tell. I'll take a wait-and-see approach for now.
Good Hunting! |
"Firepower - if it's not working, you're not using enough." ~ Military Proverb
"If at first you do succeed, you must've rolled a natural 20!" |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 17:30:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
At the end of the day, it will be the consensus they must go with, no matter what any of want individually.
I think I've only seen two others with my exact attitude/preference; Jorkens was one, can't remember the other. Basically, what we want, and what we think is best for the game (and FR) are two separate animals. They cannot afford to disenfranchise the fans they have - they tried that and we got 4e (which has lead us straight here).
If not handled delicately, 5e could blow up in their faces all over again.
But if they stayed with the current model I'm sure a change of edition wouldn't bring back those who left. I thought what happened to the Realms was what caused people to leave, not the 4th edition rules. I left FR because the Spellplague was the dumbest thing ever and what happened afterwards.
Pretty much a new edition isn't going to suddenly make people like the change. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
Edited by - Shadowsoul on 13 Jan 2012 18:47:04 |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 17:38:38
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| Yes, particularly if it brings us more edition neutral lore and detailing of the out-of-the-way locales in the Realms. |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 18:39:56
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| My vote depends on when the reboot is. I personally would prefer rolling back to right after Cloak & Dagger and before the 3E FRCS. From that point, I'd go forward with some of the things done in 3E, change some others, and totally ignore some events. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 19:24:34
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Of course a "complete reboot" could mean anything, Elminster could become a fighter and Manshoon could be an orc priest of Illmater... I'm writing that down for one of his clones.
Now if we mean just forgetting all events up to a certain point in time, either right before 4e or 3e, then I think I'd vote no. 4e novels are good so far and I want to see the announced sequels, and I don't think it would be fair for fans of the "new setting".
I'd also like to add to those of you suggesting an alternate timeline without spellplague as a solution that it would be a terrible solution to the current problem. To make the Realms a successful product, it would be a disastrous marketing decision to split the potential buyers of all new products in half. If the new sourcebook X is only appealing to 50% of the Realms fans, who are already not enough to be very lucrative by the way, any project in this setting is doomed to fail.
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Edited by - Kilvan on 13 Jan 2012 19:25:36 |
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Wolfhound75
Learned Scribe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 20:30:53
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One thing we should all note in our minds:
The rules (Game Mechanics) of 5E/4E/3.xE/2E/1E/0E are NOT one and the same as "The Realms".
Yes, The Realms, to all of us at any rate, are certainly D&D's flagship world but, we must all realize that despite our personal preferences, The Realms are not the only D&D setting and the game mechanics are meant to go with all of the offered settings.
The mechanics of a given edition are the system we use to explore and stage adventures in The Realms. Discussions of the game mechanic versus Realmsian Lore should at least attempt to be separate. Although we all know that new editions have historically spawned new lore to go along with them so, this may be difficult at best.
What, in my opinion, is really being asked here is this:
Concurrent with the release of the 5E mechanics, would you like to see Realmsian Lore overhauled?
With all the talk of Manshoon, I just had to add "My Two Zhents" for the afternoon.
Good Hunting! |
"Firepower - if it's not working, you're not using enough." ~ Military Proverb
"If at first you do succeed, you must've rolled a natural 20!" |
Edited by - Wolfhound75 on 13 Jan 2012 20:32:00 |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 20:35:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wolfhound75
Yes, The Realms, to all of us at any rate, are certainly D&D's flagship world but, we must all realize that despite our personal preferences, The Realms are not the only D&D setting and the game mechanics are meant to go with all of the offered settings.
Blasphemer! |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 21:23:34
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quote:
Wolfhound75
The rules (Game Mechanics) of 5E/4E/3.xE/2E/1E/0E are NOT one and the same as "The Realms".
Yes, The Realms, to all of us at any rate, are certainly D&D's flagship world but ... The Realms are not the only D&D setting and the game mechanics are meant to go with all of the offered settings.
Exactly. Although the game edition and Realmslore edition is often intermarried. Destructive "edition boundaries" (which typically involve blowing up Mystra) are often inserted into the Realmslore to accomodate in-setting explanations for different rulesets (which typically center on magic systems). Dissociating the Realms edition from the D&D edition is now difficult; Realmslore must be so generic that it's of little interest, or so specific that it only suits one D&D edition, or so non-magical that it's not really the Realms at all.
Having said that, there's no particular requirement to adopt WotC's "canon" version of Realmslore over more subtle and plausible (and less spectacularly destructive) explanations for changes in game lore. I've played 4E rules in the 3E-era Realms without any problems (aside from eventually abandoning the 4E rules, as they were far too oversimplified for our tastes).
I wasn't even going to bother responding to this scroll, since the very question (and wording of the question) in the poll is uninformed and implies a number of things which aren't worth arguing over. But Wolfy's comment about Realms-vs-Game editions is still perfectly astute. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 13 Jan 2012 21:24:35 |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 23:30:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My vote depends on when the reboot is. I personally would prefer rolling back to right after Cloak & Dagger and before the 3E FRCS. From that point, I'd go forward with some of the things done in 3E, change some others, and totally ignore some events.
I agree!!! |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2012 : 01:15:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I believe he means an OGB-type reboot.
Unequivocally yes, then, to that. Ed and the Realms deserve nothing less.
This would be one of my ideal options for "re-starting" the Realms.
Note that I said "one" of my ideal options -- not "the" ideal option. But I'd only support this if it was [almost] wholly under the design-aegis [or as much as possible given the license with Wizards] of Ed Greenwood. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2012 : 01:29:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I believe he means an OGB-type reboot.
Unequivocally yes, then, to that. Ed and the Realms deserve nothing less.
This would be one of my ideal options for "re-starting" the Realms.
Note that I said "one" of my ideal options -- not "the" ideal option. But I'd only support this if it was [almost] wholly under the design-aegis [or as much as possible given the license with Wizards] of Ed Greenwood.
Another reason in favor of the reboot to the OGB is to get access to Ed's original thoughts and concepts in the Realmstime they were written for. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2012 : 01:58:08
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| So essentially those who want a reboot are those who don't seem to read the novels. So there is no attachment to the story line that has developed over the past 30 years. Does this sound about right? I mean, I will say this until I am blue in the face. A DM should not need WoTC's blessing to create a campaign straight out of the OGB. It is still there and there is a ton of lore that exists to help you out. Why do you need a full reboot? Is it not enough for WoTC to open up the timeline for developers to right material for the 1350's? |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2012 : 02:06:41
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I woted yes.,.. but I think no.
It would be best I feel to just fix the damage and not delete by saying: by the way... it has all been a bad dream!!!
That would make people loose even more respect for WotC!!! |
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Topic |
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Reboot of the Realms for 5th edition.
