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PaulBestwick
Seeker
United Kingdom
83 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jan 2012 : 13:53:33
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Which sources am I best looking in for info about the hsitory of the above nation, I have most of the 3/3.5 stuff so have Lost Empires and Unapproachable East. But what earlier sources shouold I be looking at?
I tried using the search function here and failed
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2012 : 14:10:25
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There are several timeline entries for Narfell in the Grand History of the Realms hardcover as well as a listing of the realm's rulers. What information were you looking for in particular?
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dewaint
Learned Scribe
Germany
148 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2012 : 14:48:34
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From the top of my head ....
Champions of Ruin; Eltab paragraph, maybe even in Soneilon's praragraph as well?
Champions of Valor; Crown of Narfell paragraph
in 2nd Edition there was the Spellbound Box, believe some some lore about Narfell there too.
Hope that helps. |
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PaulBestwick
Seeker
United Kingdom
83 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2012 : 15:10:25
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| Thanks for the response George. My campaign is set in the Great Dale. I am trying to get a feel for the types of demons that might be encountered as being bound to a location by a Nar Demonbinder. I want to foreshadow forthcoming events. Like coming across the corpses of a demon and a number of blightspawn/juju zombies makes a an intriging scene and lets a few skill checks be useds to work out what happened. I know the Raumathar used constructs etc, but I never really got a feel for them. Are we talking Golems, Helmed Horrors. Wanted background and a feel for the conflict so as to be able to place appropriate encounters, to underly the druid/blightlord and natureal encounters. |
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PaulBestwick
Seeker
United Kingdom
83 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2012 : 15:11:24
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| Thanks also Dewaint, you posted whilst I was replying to George. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2012 : 15:21:54
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| Is that Eltab the same one imprisoned in Thay? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2012 : 20:42:45
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| I believe so. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 00:58:23
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Yes the Lord of the 248th Layer of the Abyss. Because Eltab is bound on Toril in the Citadel of the Conjurors, parts or all of his layer merged with Toril. Called Demoncysts. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 01:13:37
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So, does that sort-of make Toril Layer 248.5?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 01:22:26
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| Thanx for the info, guys ... last question about Eltab: aside from a paragraph in Champions of Ruin, where is he detailed? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 01:31:34
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From The FR Wiki -
Eltab was first mentioned in Dreams of the Red Wizards,[1] and debuted in the Dungeons & Dragons second edition supplement Spellbound.[2] He made his third edition debut in Champions of Ruin,[3] and is also mentioned in Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss,[4] Lost Empires of Faerūn,[5] and Dragon #355.[6]
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Jan 2012 01:35:36 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 01:55:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Thanx for the info, guys ... last question about Eltab: aside from a paragraph in Champions of Ruin, where is he detailed?
Champions of Ruin pg 130-135. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 01:56:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
So, does that sort-of make Toril Layer 248.5?
That just proves a prior history of Toril merging with other worlds/dimensions. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 02:09:03
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quote:
Eltab was first mentioned in Dreams of the Red Wizards,[1] and debuted in the Dungeons & Dragons second edition supplement Spellbound.[2] He made his third edition debut in Champions of Ruin,[3] and is also mentioned in Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss,[4] Lost Empires of Faerūn,[5] and Dragon #355.[6]
Thanx, Markus. 
I was aware of Eltab in FR6, Spellbound, Fiendish Codex, Hordes of the Abyss. Another poke in the ribs for missing LEoF. And another DDI product, grrr. [/Eltab] |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2012 : 03:12:40
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| Actually, the DRAGON #355 article Markus referenced above ["Volo's Guide to Demon Cults of the Realms"] was from one of the last printed issues of the magazine, from May 2007. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2012 : 09:25:38
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The Bloodstone Lands (FR9) focuses a little more on Damara, but there is some useful stuff regarding current Narfell... not so much the empire at its height, though.
mainly FR9 has names and attitudes of the tribes, a few notes on geography, etc. i'm not sure how much of it is summarized in more recent products. sounds like the other posts in this thread are more what you're looking for... just figured i'd throw this on the pile for flavor.
have fun with the campaign. :) |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2012 : 08:58:53
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| Grand History provides a timeline and reveals a bit of writing from a Demonbinder at the collapse of the empire. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2012 : 23:56:42
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| was gonna post from my outline but it looks like i already did i the linked post from Krash above |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2012 : 05:36:54
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulBestwick
Thanks for the response George. My campaign is set in the Great Dale. I am trying to get a feel for the types of demons that might be encountered as being bound to a location by a Nar Demonbinder. I want to foreshadow forthcoming events. Like coming across the corpses of a demon and a number of blightspawn/juju zombies makes a an intriging scene and lets a few skill checks be useds to work out what happened. I know the Raumathar used constructs etc, but I never really got a feel for them. Are we talking Golems, Helmed Horrors. Wanted background and a feel for the conflict so as to be able to place appropriate encounters, to underly the druid/blightlord and natureal encounters.
The Narfelli bound demons into magical prisons known as demoncysts. The demoncyst form of trapping demons commonly occurred on the outer fringes of Narfelli lands (i.e. as a type of border security) to be called upon by Demonbinders as needed and was the least sophisticated means of compelling demons to service used by the Narfelli. The demoncyst ritual involved summoning the demon in question to the Prime and then using their own unique variant of the 'Imprisonment' spell to entomb the demon (or 'drith' in the Narfelli tongue) at a particular location.
What the Narfelli realised early on in the process was that the extra-planar nature of drith made a normal 'Imprisonment' spell prone to collapsing over time, which of course led to much devastation and trouble when an unbound demon appeared 'out of no-where' and started to run amok. This led to the Narfelli working on a more demon-oriented variant of that spell which proved much more stable - but not completely so. As such it was common for only relatively minor drith to be bound in this fashion (usually nothing more powerful than a chasme, more often a handful of dretch or rutterkin) and for there to be safeguards put in place to prevent unleashed demons from doing their own things if unleashed incorrectly. Those safeguards usually took the form of spell-trigger magics to banish said unleashed demon(s) or other types of ward magics to prevent their freedom of movement. As with all dealing with extra-planar creatures, the efficacy of such spells varied wildly on circumstances and the unpredictability of the Art.
I note that there were more than a few Demonbinders who refused to 'play by the rules' and used demoncyst magic to build secret sentinels/armies in more populated areas (i.e. in and around Narfelli settlements) and also were lax in placing appropriate safeguards on their demoncysts - so essentially, anything goes in this regard.
Most 'sanctioned' demoncysts needed to be recognisable to Demonbinders - for it was intended that they be an intrinsic aspect of the defence of the realm and so required to be accessible to all 'army personnel as it were - and so the releasing of subject demon(s) was by way of command word and the touching of a particular item (usually a small brass engraved disc) located at the site of the cyst. Most Demonbinders used "Permanency" on themselves to give them the power of a lower-level variant "Arcane Sight" spell that allowed them to see drith summoning magics (specifically for location of demoncysts and wards against demons) and so could readily observe and activate such sites.
With the passing of the centuries, the demoncyst magics have all degraded to a degree. They are far less stable and accordingly, sometimes simply touching the brass disc located at a demoncyst site without uttering the command word is enough to release the demon(s) in question. It must be noted that the Demoncyst ritual was keyed specifically to humans, so the touching of a disc by wild animals, elves, dragons, dwarves etc would all (usually) have no effect. Similarly, disturbing the area of ground at or nearby to a demoncyst by digging, plowing, etc. has been known to unleash the demons entombed there. Most denizens of the Great Dale do no digging at all if it can be avoided - experience having taught them that the simple act of digging a grave can lead to deadly consequences. Customs in the Great Dale are modified accordingly (they cremate their dead rather than bury; they use hammered in stakes with stout ropes to hold wooden dwellings in place rather than digging stone foundations; etc.).
The largest concentration of demoncysts is located on the southern edge of the Great Dale along the northern part of the Forest of Lethyr, around present-day Mistbridge and the Falls of Erech, near the Citadel of Conjurers in Impiltur and in and around the environs of Dun-Tharos. This is despite centuries of "clean up" by the druids of the region.
Hope this information has been of use.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2012 : 04:30:48
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| this is awesome, thankya George. |
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PaulBestwick
Seeker
United Kingdom
83 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2012 : 14:15:36
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| Thanks Gerorge, no doubt I will be back later, but that helps immensely. Iwill no doubt have other questions later. Again thank you very much |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2012 : 17:21:07
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Interesting George. Thanks.
The binding-magics (usually called 'seals') do break down over time - I have found evidence in all of sorts of realms lore (and places). The Imaskari were the first (known) Faerūnians to experiment with perma-binding other-worldy beings, and off-shoots of their 'tech' can still be seen in several surrounding lands (their 'survivor states'). It is theorized this was brought-over from Zakhara with their Muhjuri ancestors.
For their part, Narfell's enemies - Raumathar - embraced place (nature?) magic, and druid-like Magi ruled their society... until a Narfell 'traitor' (see Winterkeep) exposed them to the secrets of demonbinding. Raumathar also made use of Imaskar's amazing Golemic lore, and built massive juggernaughts of destruction. Raumathari Effigy Masters became the empire's 'heavy artillery'.
The epitome of their combined magi-sciences was the Fiendish Horror (an offshoot of the Helmed Horror): a suit of enchanted copper plate that could bind a demon on the battlefield within it, and force it to serve the enemy. However, this magic had its limitations, and occasionally a fiend who was too powerful became entrapped by the suit of armor, and ran amok.
Why copper? Because Raumathari had a cultural bias against anything made from iron - iron disrupted the spells of their Magi.
Mostly HB (based on canon, of course). Make of it what you will. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Jan 2012 17:26:13 |
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Narfell
