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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 15:23:53
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I’ve brought this over to Ed’s thread. But he’s busy at the moment. So for the time being, let me hear your thoughts on this, fellow scribes:
Can an archdevil and a greater deity procreate? I understand that for some deities, sex/gender is not an issue. But in this case, do the archdevil and the deity have to be of the opposite gender?
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 15:51:06
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I think Ed has said that gods have preferred genders but it means about as much to them as a change of clothes does to you or I.
So, yes, you can and possibly HAVE had sex with a female Corellon.
He/She is just funny that way.
As for procreation, I assume that Archdemons and Gods need to provide some of their "divine oomph" to actually have children and it's not normal for them to procreate naturally.
Avatars, however, produce seed normally if male and bear children the same way (though being a goddess, I suppose gestation can be like in an hour). |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 19:49:25
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| I'd guess that deities of any power can procreate with any creature, regardless of race or gender, if it wants to. Talos could conceive a child in the womb of a beholder if he feels like it... wait a minute... I gotta write that down! |
Edited by - Kilvan on 09 Jan 2012 19:49:49 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2012 : 23:46:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
I'd guess that deities of any power can procreate with any creature, regardless of race or gender, if it wants to. Talos could conceive a child in the womb of a beholder if he feels like it... wait a minute... I gotta write that down!
Talk about the eye of the storm!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2012 : 00:17:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I’ve brought this over to Ed’s thread. But he’s busy at the moment. So for the time being, let me hear your thoughts on this, fellow scribes:
Can an archdevil and a greater deity procreate? I understand that for some deities, sex/gender is not an issue. But in this case, do the archdevil and the deity have to be of the opposite gender?
I believe they can and the product of this union would be an Infernal. Apparently it's an abomination.
From wiki:
Infernal - Infernals are born of the ill-starred meeting of god and fiend. I believe it appear in the 4th edition of tghe monsters manual.
Mordukhavar the Reaver is the offspring of Tiamat and Cantrum of the Dark Eight. He is someone I wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley or fire pit.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2012 : 00:53:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I think Ed has said that gods have preferred genders but it means about as much to them as a change of clothes does to you or I.
Pretty much. Both Ed and Faiths & Avatars have covered this somewhat. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2012 : 00:55:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
I'd guess that deities of any power can procreate with any creature, regardless of race or gender, if it wants to. Talos could conceive a child in the womb of a beholder if he feels like it... wait a minute... I gotta write that down!
Talk about the eye of the storm!
I would love to see that. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2012 : 02:18:26
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In all forms of life, in multi-sexual procreation, an exchange is made that initiates an internal reaction. In the case of physical beings, this would be an exchange of bodily fluids, but in the case of entities that exist in more planes then just the physical one - they are called 'powers' for a reason; they are primarily energy - then the exchange is one of energy.
Ergo, any being of that power level can, in fact, 'impregnate' another being. In this case, apparent sex (not the act, the orientation) is of no consequence - these beings take on any form they want (even fiends). Also, by 'impregnate', I do not mean in the normal mortal manner - a new consciousness begins to form in one (or even both) of the beings. In fact, more then two beings may even be involved, and the 'offspring' may not even be gestated within the beings taking part (although normally is, if even for just a portion of the pregnancy) - occasionally some other 'vessel' (including a mortal) is used for this.
This is my personal opinion on the matter. All of this does not just pertain to divine beings - it just makes it easier the less 'physical' the being is. Even mortals are capable of creating life without the normal intercourse or fluid exchange, with enough power (in the case of a fantasy setting, this usually means magic). The actual chemical reactions matter very little, so long as their is an exchange of some sort. Theoretically, even a 'purely mental' (psionic) birth is possible (just ask Anakin's mother  )
As an aside, when a being absorbs another (which has happened often in FR/D&D), the reverse of procreation happens (un-creation?) The energy is dispersed within the absorbing being (and it is possible that more then one being absorbs another, in which case the energy is truly dispersed, and nearly impossible to re-assemble). Lolth did this with some spider-demon, and I believe Baast did this with a Yuir Totem (Archfey?) - Shandilar the Dancer - to become Sharess (in that case, more of the other beings personality remained then normal). The risk here is that sometimes the absorber turns out to have less willpower then the absorbee, and there is a personality change, or in some rare instances, the absorbed being retains dominance (something along these lines may have occurred with Xvim/Bane). Obviously, absorbing another being's consciousness has its risks.
As a branch-off of this, and related to the topic at hand, is procreation through asexual reproduction - one being splitting into two (or more), which is also fairly commonplace in FR/D&D. This happened to Tyche, amongst others. As we can see by that case, the specific personality traits can be isolated and 'released' during the energy-exchange. I would hazard to guess that the same is possible in normal sexual reproduction - that two or more spiritual (extra-planer) beings can 'inject' specific parts of themselves into future offspring.
So the short answer is - as in the case of all things divine - ITS COMPLICATED. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Jan 2012 18:03:39 |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2012 : 02:44:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
I'd guess that deities of any power can procreate with any creature, regardless of race or gender, if it wants to. Talos could conceive a child in the womb of a beholder if he feels like it... wait a minute... I gotta write that down!
Talk about the eye of the storm!
I would love to see that.
The product or the conception? There's some twisted stuff on the web, surely something akin can be found. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2012 : 02:50:24
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| Oh and back on topic, Markus pretty much said it all I think. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2012 : 14:41:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
I'd guess that deities of any power can procreate with any creature, regardless of race or gender, if it wants to. Talos could conceive a child in the womb of a beholder if he feels like it... wait a minute... I gotta write that down!
Talk about the eye of the storm!
I would love to see that.
The product or the conception? There's some twisted stuff on the web, surely something akin can be found.
Both, of course! |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2012 : 17:16:42
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Interesting thoughts, MT. As for the exchange of energy, I suppose the two very different entities may have to follow certain "natural" rules. Light and darkness, essentially, cannot be combined. Neither are oil and water. As elucidated in genetics, some incompatibility can result to abnormal offsprings. Perhaps the archdevil and the greater deity would have to operate within the limits of their own natural makeup. That is, if they wish to have normal offspring. By normal, I mean being able to function in ways that their parents want them to. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2012 : 18:00:05
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IIRC, there is at least one extra-planer being that is composed of both negative (light/radiance) energy and negative (shadow/death) energy, although I can't recall the source (I'm not to sure its a Planescape source - it could be older).
Which means that opposites (which should normally destroy each other) can combine, because in an infinite universe, infinite possibilities exist. No rule is absolute - there are always exceptions.
We have examples of inert material (Golems) combining with living flesh (half-golems), which also shouldn't be possible.
Basically it boils down to this - tell someone no, and some twisted genius somewhere will try to break that rule.
BTW, I wish I was a better artist, because that 'Eye of the Storm' concept is just friggin' awesome!  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Procreation of Greater Entities
