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rjfras
Learned Scribe

261 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2012 :  02:38:08  Show Profile  Visit rjfras's Homepage Send rjfras a Private Message  Reply with Quote
the poll would have been better if it had stated what they were looking for. do they want to know if people prefer the lore of one edition over the other or the rules because there is a big difference. I have not voted because I don't know which they are looking for.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30973 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2012 :  05:57:04  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rjfras

the poll would have been better if it had stated what they were looking for. do they want to know if people prefer the lore of one edition over the other or the rules because there is a big difference. I have not voted because I don't know which they are looking for.



Another excellent point. I myself find workable lore in every edition, but lorewise, my preferred edition is 2E. Rules-wise, 3.5 or Pathfinder, though I grew up in 2E and still think in 2E terms.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe

688 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2012 :  06:58:58  Show Profile  Visit MrHedgehog's Homepage Send MrHedgehog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like 4th edition rules better.
I don't like the changes to the Forgotten Realms they made.
But I can play 4th edition in the past or my own future that I construct myself.
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Ozreth
Learned Scribe

180 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2012 :  07:14:36  Show Profile  Visit Ozreth's Homepage Send Ozreth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Meh, I would have chosen both 2e and 3e but that wasn't an option, so I chose 2e.
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6588 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2012 :  08:32:05  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This poll would likely produce very different results on the Wizards boards.

[/Ayrik]
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
909 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2012 :  11:16:27  Show Profile Send Matt James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

This poll would likely produce very different results on the Wizards boards.



Just like politics, it's all in where you get your samples from. Candlekeep is decidedly against content from 1470 DR+ (see, I didn't use an edition! ). This isn't to say everyone that visits here thinks the same--because they don't. But the overall negative demeanor towards 1470 DR+ is boldly contrasted against content prior.
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Lady Swiftstrike Assassin
Seeker

73 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2012 :  12:25:50  Show Profile Send Lady Swiftstrike Assassin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hope that all the great content in the pipeline will change these views!


quote:
Originally posted by Matt James

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

This poll would likely produce very different results on the Wizards boards.



Just like politics, it's all in where you get your samples from. Candlekeep is decidedly against content from 1470 DR+ (see, I didn't use an edition! ). This isn't to say everyone that visits here thinks the same--because they don't. But the overall negative demeanor towards 1470 DR+ is boldly contrasted against content prior.

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Imp
Learned Scribe

231 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2012 :  12:34:19  Show Profile Send Imp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why are you shouting?!
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2960 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2012 :  13:58:33  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Need to add 5E to the poll...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2012 :  14:12:38  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

It's not released yet. So I don't see why it should be included.

Every beginning has an end.
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2960 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2012 :  14:14:55  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


It's not released yet. So I don't see why it should be included.



"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader

USA
3078 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2012 :  14:34:03  Show Profile Send Ashe Ravenheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

Need to add 5E to the poll...

Hmm... so I was only off by 5 months. Guess they didn't want to announce it at GenCon like they did 4E.

I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.

Ashe's Character Sheet

Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30973 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2012 :  14:56:48  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart

quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

Need to add 5E to the poll...

Hmm... so I was only off by 5 months. Guess they didn't want to announce it at GenCon like they did 4E.



The news was already out, just not confirmed... Perhaps they're hoping to build some hype, going into Gen Con...

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2960 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2012 :  14:58:28  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
WotC has announced it on their site. From what I understand they already have a rough draft of the rules...


"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep

Edited by - Brimstone on 09 Jan 2012 14:59:07
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31691 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2012 :  15:16:31  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

This poll would likely produce very different results on the Wizards boards.



Just like politics, it's all in where you get your samples from. Candlekeep is decidedly against content from 1470 DR+ (see, I didn't use an edition! ). This isn't to say everyone that visits here thinks the same--because they don't. But the overall negative demeanor towards 1470 DR+ is boldly contrasted against content prior.

Which is, unfortunately, all very true -- despite both my and Wooly efforts to ensure a concerted and respectful approach to the post-Spellplague material here at Candlekeep.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
909 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2012 :  11:15:50  Show Profile Send Matt James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wouldn't expect 5e until at least 2013. There's no way it's coming out this year at all. It may even take until 2014--which will mark the 40th anniversary of the game.
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3477 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2012 :  12:22:49  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I project, at earliest, a 2013 launch in the summer months (May, June, July) or 2014 which has more significance. If it's 2014, that would've given 6 years to 4th Edition, not horribly by any means.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Therise
Master of Realmslore

1265 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2012 :  12:37:58  Show Profile Send Therise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

I project, at earliest, a 2013 launch in the summer months (May, June, July) or 2014 which has more significance. If it's 2014, that would've given 6 years to 4th Edition, not horribly by any means.


I suspect that they need corporate results before the end of this year, perhaps timed for a pre-Thanksgiving launch. Having a year-long playtest would be interesting, but I don't think they could stretch out a playtest longer than that. Also, showing an upswing in sales just before xmas might save a lot of people from the usual December pink slips, if you know what I mean.

I'd bet they have something else in mind for 2014, to keep the momentum high with sales of 5E.

4E Realms was awful, but it's water under the Boareskyr Bridge. Let's make 5E Realms truly shine!
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3477 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2012 :  13:05:15  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Therise

I suspect that they need corporate results before the end of this year, perhaps timed for a pre-Thanksgiving launch. Having a year-long playtest would be interesting, but I don't think they could stretch out a playtest longer than that. Also, showing an upswing in sales just before xmas might save a lot of people from the usual December pink slips, if you know what I mean.

I'd bet they have something else in mind for 2014, to keep the momentum high with sales of 5E.




I dunno, to playtest (which I hear rumored to start in April) to final decisions to printing to release in less than a year would be really really difficult to pull off. That sort of rushed timeline is sure to make a mess of things and I feel would probably hinder the production of a great RPG.

If they do playtesting right, a few months with some more months of in-house playtesting, tweaking, and discussing. THEN get to the finialized product and publication....I don't see how this could be accomplished with much success before the beginning of the 2nd Quarter of 2013 at the earliest.

They could be doing a lot of stuff 5E up to that point like 4E (but lets hope with less snark and "this is WAY better than what your playing now" message (no matter how correct I believed they were).

Only time will tell.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Therise
Master of Realmslore

1265 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2012 :  13:54:50  Show Profile Send Therise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Agreed, I hope they do far better marketing on this, whatever it turns out to be.

For sure, it's lots of guesswork until we get some real information about what they've prepared. Did they say they were going to have some playtesting at D&D Experience? When is that coming up?


4E Realms was awful, but it's water under the Boareskyr Bridge. Let's make 5E Realms truly shine!
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6913 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2012 :  15:48:20  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
2E and 3E both are near and dear to me. In general, I like the 3E rules more. However, I wasn't particularly fond of the direction they went with the red wizard class in 3.5, comparing them against similar prestige classes who also got circle magic.... I did like in 3rd edition that there were two different red wizard kits (one where you were a focused specialist in one class, one where you became a specialist in 2 classes) and I wish they would have made the prestige class give more allowances like that. Ever since dreams of the red wizards, there were rumors of some mages who had mastered more than one school of specialization. That plus the red wizards circle were always described as a kind of battlefield solution and the circle magic rules were essentially something you did as preparation work. But that's nitpicking a bit.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
909 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2012 :  19:23:29  Show Profile Send Matt James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The printing of the books alone means this won't be a 2012 release. Amazon would have to contain a holder and I don't see any there.
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2012 :  19:35:28  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

There is really no right or wrong answer, though this sort of debate has the possibility to re-open the lines of negativity between the two aspects of the Realms.
Coming from an avid 4E fan and an all-around Realms enthusiast, it hasn't been easy coming to a place with a lot of negativity for something you love because the two (rules/setting) are so intricately intertwined. But the Mods have done an excellent job of making this place much MUCH better in terms of understanding and live-and-let-live attitudes between the peoples here.

It's been a pretty long while since I saw inflammatory, insensitive, or down right rude comments from either Grognards (is there a more P.C term for anit-4E people?) and 4vengers alike. It's been relatively peaceful, each side accepting that there are like and dislikes and leaving it at that.



I agree on all counts, Diffan. I consider the term "grognard" to be a badge of honour, much as I do the term "geek".

I would like to think that the anti-4E sentiment has died down in the last year simply because people had come to accept it and move on, but part of me suspects that my absence from the Keep for most of the past year had something to do with it too (edit: or is that my ego talking?). It was the announcement of D&D Next that brought me back to CK, and I'm trying to thin out my trollish blood going forward in the hopes that the new edition of both the game and the Realms will be something that brings all fans back on the same side. I suspect my hopes are a bit high, but we'll see what happens. I'm looking forward to (hopefully) being involved in the playtest.

quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

Actually Diffan, I'm of the opinion that you (foremost among the small number of 4E-enthusiast scribes) have been more influential in changing these attitudes here than you're aware. I've witnessed your example turn edition hostility into edition tolerance, even into edition curiosity. The only tools the mods have which you don't are sledgehammers and padlocks, and these generally aren't well suited for the sort construction you've accomplished. I vote +1 to give you some sort of "4E Pride" medal, lol.



I agree... this is the only FR/D&D board where I do more than lurk, and I saw a whole lot of hostility on the WotC boards (nearly all of it pro-4E and anti-Realms, and no, I'm not claiming the two are the same... although even a year ago, I probably would have done). Here, we had much the reverse reaction, and I played no small part in it, for which, even though I've apologized in other scrolls, I am sorry. Anyway, I second Ayrik's vote; +1.

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 25 Jan 2012 19:37:53
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30973 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2012 :  19:59:42  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
[brI would like to think that the anti-4E sentiment has died down in the last year simply because people had come to accept it and move on, but part of me suspects that my absence from the Keep for most of the past year had something to do with it too (edit: or is that my ego talking?).


Actually, from what I've seen, the die-down in the anti-4E sentiment has been caused in large part by some of those most vociferous scribes falling silent -- many have migrated on to other sites, and I know that some fell silent because it was easier than continuing to maintain their negative stance. I should like to think that Sage and I coming down hard on people disrupting pro-4E threads was also a factor.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3477 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2012 :  21:13:59  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk


I agree on all counts, Diffan. I consider the term "grognard" to be a badge of honour, much as I do the term "geek".

I would like to think that the anti-4E sentiment has died down in the last year simply because people had come to accept it and move on, but part of me suspects that my absence from the Keep for most of the past year had something to do with it too (edit: or is that my ego talking?). It was the announcement of D&D Next that brought me back to CK, and I'm trying to thin out my trollish blood going forward in the hopes that the new edition of both the game and the Realms will be something that brings all fans back on the same side. I suspect my hopes are a bit high, but we'll see what happens. I'm looking forward to (hopefully) being involved in the playtest.


I too am looking to be involved with the Playtest, and espically after they said it wouldn't contain an NDA, so that'll make for some good discussions. And I think the work of the Mods have been a good reason things are more civil around here.


quote:
Originally posted by Jakk


I agree... this is the only FR/D&D board where I do more than lurk, and I saw a whole lot of hostility on the WotC boards (nearly all of it pro-4E and anti-Realms, and no, I'm not claiming the two are the same... although even a year ago, I probably would have done). Here, we had much the reverse reaction, and I played no small part in it, for which, even though I've apologized in other scrolls, I am sorry. Anyway, I second Ayrik's vote; +1.



Your kind words are much appreciated. Thank you.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


Actually, from what I've seen, the die-down in the anti-4E sentiment has been caused in large part by some of those most vociferous scribes falling silent -- many have migrated on to other sites, and I know that some fell silent because it was easier than continuing to maintain their negative stance. I should like to think that Sage and I coming down hard on people disrupting pro-4E threads was also a factor.


Agree as well. Good job and thanks.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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