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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1356 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2012 :  02:52:32  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message
Hi Ed and THO,

I was wondering if you could tell us a bit more about the Spiderhaunt Woods. Its name and proximity to the old Lands Under Shadow makes me think there must be some history with the drow involved. Aside from it being full of spiders and ettercaps, the only real thing we know is that beholders roam its woods according to the Tome of the Wyvernwater Circle (Dragon 164). The Xraunrarr Shall Triumph article claims the beholders fled north to find some fell magic for their battle with Uldeeth, which I presume was the Spiderhaunt. Any possible info on what's in those woods or maybe even what kind of magic those beholders found that blasted Uldeeth into its current state? Did the Knights ever venture into these woods and could you tell us of some of their adventures within?

Thank you. :)
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4747 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2012 :  03:45:31  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
Nice questions Eilserus. Can't wait for the answers on these.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Sightless
Senior Scribe

USA
608 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2012 :  04:24:34  Show Profile Send Sightless a Private Message
If this question has been asked and answered, then excuse the reappearance. According to the Cult of the Dragon source material, Sammaster was sent to Elminster for training and guidance as one of Mystra’s chosen. The material states that “Little is known of the time Sammaster and Elminster spent together. Although the Sage of Shadowdale did provide some information for this report, he became quite reticent regarding his personal relationship with Sammaster.”

Well the text goes on to say that the two didn’t get along, I’m curious, what all could have transpired between the two? The text gives some hints regarding the possible subjects for the difficulties that the two might have had with one another, but there is, to me, a great deal that is left unsaid. Any further elaboration would be appreciated, respectfully, Sightless

We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.

Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4747 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2012 :  12:20:16  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
You might want to look at Ed's vignette in GHotR on p.106.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Sightless
Senior Scribe

USA
608 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2012 :  15:24:33  Show Profile Send Sightless a Private Message
George, was that post aimed at me?

If it was, then, could you elaborate, because the only stuff I'm getting based on this is for vacations. Otherwise, I get ziltch.

We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.

Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all.
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2012 :  18:26:38  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all. Ed is off at the library again, working at his day job, but I've had time to assemble a LITTLE from my notes (of what Ed's told us or revealed in play, down the years) re. Tethyamar, for Eli the Tanner.
Here we go...

Tethyamar's mines went deep, following thin, nigh-vertical veins of ore, and usually took the form of descending "chains" of chambers (stairs and rooms located "on the veins" and being long and narrow). A central, largest chain would be for travel (and reaching the current "working face") and a second developed to carry ore up and out of the mines; the two chains would be cross-connected wherever practical. After an are was worked out, these chains would be evaluated for use as dwellings, storage, work areas [[forges, workshops]] or tombs (dwellings and storage should be close together, but tombs don't need to be as close to daily dwelling areas). Forges are the hardest to locate because they need good chimneys (air in and smoke out) or room for bellows and adequate chimneys.
Accomplishing all of this resulted in Tethyamar being more scattered/widespread than many dwarven "holds," which was both a strength and a weakness: the farflung character made it much harder to defend against foes, who could attack many small, isolated, weak areas, but its decentralized character made it home to hardy, self-reliant dwarves who didn't expect others to fight for them or "rescue" them, and helped themselves before looking to (or obeying) a central authority.
Moreover, the dwarves of Tethyamar placed far more importance on personal behaviour and less on heritage/bloodlines/what clan you were born into, in a deliberate attempt to avoid clan feuds and rivalries that had so plagued other dwarven communities. Dwarves of different families lived and worked together, in a rough and cheerfully informal "style" of "everybody must get along." To be a Tethyamar dwarf was far more important than to be an Ironshoulder, or a Shaleshield, or a Deepstone.

And that's about where the notes I can find, that are coherent without Ed's explanations, run out, so for more, we'll have to wait for him...
love,
THO
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore

USA
1081 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2012 :  18:33:35  Show Profile  Visit Garen Thal's Homepage Send Garen Thal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Sightless

George, was that post aimed at me?

If it was, then, could you elaborate, because the only stuff I'm getting based on this is for vacations. Otherwise, I get ziltch.
Sightless, George is referring you to the entry on page 106 of Grand History of the Realms. It gives a brief--but meaningful--glimpse at the relationship between Elminster and Sammaster during the time you requested information on.
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Sightless
Senior Scribe

USA
608 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2012 :  20:39:33  Show Profile Send Sightless a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal

quote:
Originally posted by Sightless

George, was that post aimed at me?

If it was, then, could you elaborate, because the only stuff I'm getting based on this is for vacations. Otherwise, I get ziltch.
Sightless, George is referring you to the entry on page 106 of Grand History of the Realms. It gives a brief--but meaningful--glimpse at the relationship between Elminster and Sammaster during the time you requested information on.


Thanks.

We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.

Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all.
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Sightless
Senior Scribe

USA
608 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2012 :  20:40:49  Show Profile Send Sightless a Private Message
To Ed:

I’m going back and reading/listening to previous posts, and have a question more for consideration, than anything else, which is based around a comment you made on Febuary 26, 2004, regarding Elminster, Dornal, etc. I wont repost the exact comment here, but can if desired, but I know having lost many many friends, nine to audo related accidents, 2 to suicide, and several to cancer, that it is often my believe that there is an after life, and that some, perhaps even all of those I cared for are there. Would this not sustain, mentally of course, those like Elminster to some degree? I must go by faith, where he has seen the Gods personally, wouldn’t that make it on some level easier? I know, a philosophical queery that’s beyond this forum.

A more petty and rather unsignificant questions. Please forgive the relative absence of page numbers.

In the work “the Seven Sisters,” In regards to the spell “Laeral’s Crowning Touch


It is stated that “There is mentioned that An unscrupulous apprentice of the Simbul once
stole it from the spellbooks of her mistress, and
tried it on a man who had spurned her.only to have the spell effects visited not on him, but on herself.”

Who was this unfortunate lass, and was she given any further punishment by the Symbol her mistress?
Laeral’s Crowning Touch


We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.

Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13284 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2012 :  23:52:51  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Although I eagerly await Ed's answer to your query, Sightless, I feel compelled to make a certain point:

Not everyone goes to same place after they die (in FR & D&D).


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Sightless
Senior Scribe

USA
608 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2012 :  01:15:16  Show Profile Send Sightless a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Although I eagerly await Ed's answer to your query, Sightless, I feel compelled to make a certain point:

Not everyone goes to same place after they die (in FR & D&D).





I know that, but it's the idea that they are some place better that might serve as a sustainer. I'd say more, but I'd be treading into deep waters, especially as my views of heaven don't mesh with everyone elses.

We choose to live a lie, when we see with, & not through the eye.

Every decision, no matter the evidence, is a leap of faith; if it were not, then it wouldn't be a choice at all.
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe

Malaysia
552 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2012 :  05:27:14  Show Profile Send Xar Zarath a Private Message
Hi Ed and THO, I was wondering who came up with the idea of the Netherese and their floating enclaves? and what was the inspiration for them?

Everything ends where it begins. Period.



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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2012 :  15:32:56  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Xar Zarath, Ed created the Netherese, floating cities and all. They existed in the Realms by 1978 for certain (when I, playing with Ed as DM, first heard of them), floating cities and all.
As for what inspired them, we'll have to wait for Ed to reply to that. I suspect nothing directly inspired them, or to put it another way, all of Ed's reading and looking at art and life experiences and playing with ideas up until then inspired them. Ed has tweaked and recast a lot of classic fantasy tropes in his creative output (the Realms and outside-the-Realms stuff), but also created a surprising amount of D&D stuff (such as many of the spells, magic items, and monsters) "out of nowhere."
love,
THO
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13284 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2012 :  17:22:06  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
I don't know if this (or something similar) has been asked before...

How does Mirt do what he does? In other words, being a 'Money-lender' means you have to be mean at times (like when people don't pay you back on time). I realize he's not the "pound of flesh" type, but there has to be times he does things that aren't very nice (like take someone's business away). How does he balance what he does with what he is?

How can he maintain his 'good guy' persona while still being tough on his customers? Its not a business that allows one to 'be nice'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 15 Sep 2012 17:24:01
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2012 :  18:02:12  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Markustay, although there are times when Mirt has been decidedly "not nice," he has prospered in recent years through a "new wrinkle" he developed: he gets debtors to work for him, or agree to things, and thereby engineers increased profits for himself through land deals and trade arrangements that wouldn't be possible without their "cooperation." :}
love,
THO
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Eli the Tanner
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
146 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2012 :  18:03:53  Show Profile  Visit Eli the Tanner's Homepage Send Eli the Tanner a Private Message
Thankyou THO,

That is just the sort of thing I was hoping for. Though I have a hundred more follow-up questions now about culture, art, warfare, etc. I'll hold those off til I hear from Ed.

Moderator of /r/Forgotten_Realms
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2012 :  19:20:34  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
A followup for Markustay (the real world interrupted my reply, necessitating a hasty sign-off), drawn from Ed's notes:

Mirt doesn't like being menacing. For one thing, it worked well when he was a youngish mercenary general, but folk are less afraid of his elderly, paunchy, wheezing, lurching self.
He much prefers to be jovial or kindly, playing the elder statesman who regrets having to "close" or "collect" on someone who can't (or won't) pay him.
Mirt assembles a few witnesses (preferably Piergeiron or another "known" lord like Texter or Kitten) with the debtor, and in front of them negotiates something like this: can't pay? Well, then, extension to this later date in return for agreeing to/not opposing this ("this" being a guild vote or business proposal regarding shipping or bulk good purchases that Mirt will benefit from). Failing that, Mirt agrees to "forget" a large debt in return for acquiring land or a building (usually in Waterdeep) or the contents of a warehouse or a share in a business that's nominally worth less (but that Mirt can parlay into a large profit by combining it with other acquisitions for a controlling interest or larger parcel of land or room enough to knock down smaller buildings and build larger, new, better ones on the same site to get higher rents or sales).
Or Mirt forces the debtor to sell something (property, business share, even an entire business), in order to pay Mirt out of the coin they get for selling. Mirt gets repaid, and removes a competitor or "bad" debtor by putting them out of (that) business. Mirt often softens this latter "road to ruin" by giving them a paid job to do (like accompany a shipboard cargo to a destination in another port), thereby getting them off the stage in Waterdeep, giving them an opportunity for a fresh start elsewhere, and sometimes even gaining an ally in the process. (Many of Mirt's former debtors see him as a friend and valuable trading partner.)
This very "shrewd kindness" is what makes Mirt stand out from among the many "sharks of Waterdeep," both as an intriguing "quirky" man and a spectacular business success.
He's a gruff, good-natured, humorous old guy known to be a good friend - - and a bad foe.

There. THAT'S closer to the Mirt I know.
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2012 :  19:43:51  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
I have a followup for Jeremy re. Ghelmer of the Lost Dragon of Waterdeep/paintings fame, from Ed (in response to a question or two I posed to him, pondering what I'd seen in Realmsplay and what he revealed to you earlier): that telltale lock of curly hair Ghelmer passed on to his offspring (with various noble ladies) appears near the left "temple" of their heads, or on the side of their heads just "behind" the temple, and is a shade or so lighter than the rest of their hair, but otherwise of the same general hue as the rest of their hair. If the rest of their hair is also curly, due to the genes of the mother, so is Ghelmer's lock, but it still "shows" lighter than the rest of the hair.

There. Great enjoyment of the Realms due to reveling in the smallest details.
love,
THO
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13284 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2012 :  19:54:36  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Thanks for the quick response.

So he's not the type to put a woman and her children out on the street, even though it may be his right to do so? Are there certain people who he 'forgets' to collect rent from? Does he (or even Waterdeep in-general) maintain a place for homeless families like that? You know, not the typical 'begger' type, but rather people who made some bad decisions and are now destitute?

Are public projects sometimes sponsored to help these people get back on their feet? (whats sometimes referred to here in the states as 'workfare' - like what Roosevelt started with the New Deal).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2012 :  20:29:28  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Oh, yes, Mirt has a "small army" of down-on-their-luck individuals and families he "forgets" to collect rent from. And even delivers hot cooked food (left over from nobles' revels and "prepared in excess" [[deliberately]] for Palace functions/dinners with envoys and embassies) to. In return, they deliver messages and items for Mirt to certain people (rarely) and spy for him (frequently).
In addition to Mirt's kindness, certain nobles treat certain "low friends" similarly, as do a HANDFUL of wealthy, socially-rising "wannabe nobles," and most of the guilds (though the guilds tend to restrict their generosity to the families of members and the families of deceased members).
Piergeiron also seeks out and gives food and shelter to street folk (and sometimes steady employment to them, too), particularly in winter months. He also holds "open feasts" at the Palace in which the cold and hungry can warm and feed themselves in the colder months. (However, Piergeiron is not above using these occasions for law and order purposes: twice, when serial murderers were at work in the city, these open feasts included drugs added to drinkables to induce gentle slumber, and the Watch and attending priests magically interrogated certain feasters as they awakened (at different times), to try to learn the identity of/more about the killers. In one case, successfully, in the other not.
This all comes (very lightly paraphrased) from Ed's notes and from my own play experiences.
love,
THO
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13284 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2012 :  01:15:07  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Thanks once again for the excellent (and speedy) response.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2012 :  02:51:38  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

I have a followup for Jeremy re. Ghelmer of the Lost Dragon of Waterdeep/paintings fame, ...
Thank you for that, THO.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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The Red Walker
Great Reader

USA
3523 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2012 :  03:38:55  Show Profile  Send The Red Walker a Yahoo! Message Send The Red Walker a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Oh, yes, Mirt has a "small army" of down-on-their-luck individuals and families he "forgets" to collect rent from. And even delivers hot cooked food (left over from nobles' revels and "prepared in excess" [[deliberately]] for Palace functions/dinners with envoys and embassies) to. In return, they deliver messages and items for Mirt to certain people (rarely) and spy for him (frequently).
In addition to Mirt's kindness, certain nobles treat certain "low friends" similarly, as do a HANDFUL of wealthy, socially-rising "wannabe nobles," and most of the guilds (though the guilds tend to restrict their generosity to the families of members and the families of deceased members).
Piergeiron also seeks out and gives food and shelter to street folk (and sometimes steady employment to them, too), particularly in winter months. He also holds "open feasts" at the Palace in which the cold and hungry can warm and feed themselves in the colder months. (However, Piergeiron is not above using these occasions for law and order purposes: twice, when serial murderers were at work in the city, these open feasts included drugs added to drinkables to induce gentle slumber, and the Watch and attending priests magically interrogated certain feasters as they awakened (at different times), to try to learn the identity of/more about the killers. In one case, successfully, in the other not.
This all comes (very lightly paraphrased) from Ed's notes and from my own play experiences.
love,
THO



What happened to all these people and all Mirt real estate and wealth for that matter when he was trapped in the blue flame item? Do we know whn he was trapped?

A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -

John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13284 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2012 :  23:59:55  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Most of the folk Elminster knew should have gone to Mystra's Realm, and since Realm imploded at the start of the pellplague, Elminster would have taken no comfort in that (he technically has no afterlife to look forward to). Blackstaff went to Arvandar (lucky for him), but Quilue got screwed-over royally (No Mystra or Eilistraee).

The afterlife is a real bad deal, IMHO, because the gods get picked-off like ducks in shooting gallery. We've yet to find out what happens to all those 'lost souls'. Where do these people go when their god dies?

Consider that a question.


*Grammatical corrections

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 17 Sep 2012 20:38:10
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1748 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2012 :  05:21:07  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message
I like that there is an afterlife, because it gives me a bit of comfort to know that when my favorite characters die, their soul has a place to go. I don't like the idea of them ceasing to exist, you know? I did wonder what happened to Quilue's soul, since both her goddesses did die. And that is indeed a question. In Lady Penitent, the souls in Eilistaee's went to Arvandor, but yeah, what about Mystra's and the other dead gods? And for that matter, where do the souls of the gods go?

Sweet water and light laughter
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