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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 01 Sep 2012 :  18:45:58  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all! I bring Ed's response to Kajehase, re. this: "How large a proportion of Waterdeep's population are people who have moved there from somewhere else?"
Ed replies:

Well, as usual, "it depends." Both on the time of year, and the date in question. Every summer the population of Waterdeep swells as folk arrive to trade, look for work, look to prey off citizens and visitors, and so on. Every winter it shrinks as some folk head for warmer, more southerly locales.
Yet at any given time, Waterdeep's population is probably a minimum of one-third "outlanders who arrived within the last two decades." That's a very rough estimate, though, and no one's doing a proper census. (The tax collectors try, but . . .)


So saith Ed. I'd just like to underscore that many folk who call themselves "Waterdhavians" are, at any give time, "on the road" elsewhere because they make their livings moving trade goods (by caravan, ship, or handful-of-mules peddling), and so aren't in the city to be counted, making the visitors or recent arrivals about a third.
love,
THO
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe

485 Posts

Posted - 01 Sep 2012 :  22:37:23  Show Profile  Visit Arcanus's Homepage Send Arcanus a Private Message
Hi tho, is there any chance of Ed himself coming here and giving his own take on 5e?
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2012 :  12:21:30  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message
Thank you for the answer, Ed and the Lovely Hooded One. And a follow-up if I may: Are there any "Chinatowns" or "Little Italy's" (or "Lilla Syrien" to use an example closer to where I live) in Waterdeep. I.e. areas where one specific nationality cluster together?

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2012 :  18:40:24  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all. Kajehase, it so happens Ed answered that specific question for TSR designers, way back when, so I have his reply in my notes:

Waterdeep truly is a tolerant "melting pot" where all folk dwell and work together (motivated by common greed, many say). The social divisions in the City of Splendors are economic, rather than human sub-racial/cultural/"national" - - in general, the wealthier you are, the farther north you live (and the closer to either Mount Waterdeep or the sea).
This is a very rough rule, because wealthy folk who prize solitude or quiet over social high profile prefer to dwell in North Ward and closer to the inland city wall, and folk who live and breathe trade like to live closer to the Market.
Visibly non-human individuals, and poor/unemployed newcomers to the city tend to end up in Dock Ward or South Ward (Dock Ward is more dangerous for females, scholars, and children, and lacks the amount of available accommodations, whereas many warehouse owners in South Ward don't mind building "rafter rooms" above their storage space and making extra coin off rents).
So there are no "ghettos" based on human origins (all the Calishites clustering here, the folk from Turmish or the Tashalar there), but half-orcs, and half-breeds that look "slightly" serpent-like or otherwise monstrous, will likely dwell in Dock Ward.
Half-elves, gnomes, dwarves, and halflings dwell wherever their wealth and desires dictate, and can be found everywhere in the city, but dwarves active in foundry-work are most likely to be in Dock Ward, and many gnomes and halflings dwell in Trades Ward and Castle Ward.
The natural human tendencies to seek out someone of your own culture/background (unless you're trying to hide from such people, of course) lead to a Calishite seeking a Calishite landlord or patron, but due to the bustling nature of Waterdeep, that doesn't often translate into clusters of Calishite-occupied houses; aside from the oldest landowning nobles, landlords tend to own properties scattered all over the city rather than in "blocks."


So saith Ed. To which I would add: if you're playing in the late 1400s, add Mistshore and Downshadow and the other "new" neighbourhoods to "will likely dwell in Dock Ward."
love,
THO
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 02 Sep 2012 :  19:18:01  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message
And thanks again

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe

France
173 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2012 :  07:46:29  Show Profile Send Marco Volo a Private Message
Here's another Waterdeep question for Ed if he can : I was wandering the origin of the name of "Dretch Lane" (located south of Castle Ward) ?

Edited by - Marco Volo on 03 Sep 2012 18:38:01
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Arunsun
Acolyte

France
5 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2012 :  10:25:48  Show Profile Send Arunsun a Private Message
Marco means Dretch (a monster whose name, for some reason, hasn't been translated in any edition), and I second the question!
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2012 :  11:55:57  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message
Dretch can also mean someone who's being slow in doing a task, like a dawdler or tarrier.

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett

Edited by - Kajehase on 03 Sep 2012 12:14:59
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30340 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2012 :  13:07:59  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
And let's not forget Dretchroyaster, the Monarch Reborn, who sometimes goes by Dretch...

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2012 :  15:25:08  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Marco Volo

Here's another Waterdeep question for Ed if he can : I was wandering the origin of the name of "Drecht Lane" (located south of Castle Ward) ?

I'm almost certain Steven Schend addressed this somewhere at Candlekeep.

Let me check my archives.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe

France
173 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2012 :  18:39:49  Show Profile Send Marco Volo a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Arunsun

Marco means Dretch (a monster whose name, for some reason, hasn't been translated in any edition), and I second the question!


Corrected !
Ma langue a fourchée, as we say in France.

And the Sage, thanks in advance for searching the answer to my question.

Edited by - Marco Volo on 03 Sep 2012 18:41:21
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14389 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2012 :  20:30:25  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Reading Elfsong ATM (I managed to pick-up a cluster of old Harper novels at Gencon for a great price), and a few things sprang to mind.

First, is there more then one 'layer' to the Lords of waterdeep? It seems to me that there is a 'not so well hidden' layer of lords, that people are supposed to suspect, and then there is a deeper layer. Almost like 'true lords' and 'puppets' (although perhaps not setup in that fashion, this is just how it seems to work out). Also, after reading Waterdeep: A Novel, it appears Elaith Craulnober considers himself a sort 'unofficial' Lord of Waterdeep. Its kind of obvious (from both novels) that the Lords are aware of his activities, but he is more useful then he is troublesome. Does this mean that even they have accepted this psuedo-status? That he is possibly part of that 'deeper layer' that is truly running things?

And this question came to me, although it isn't directly related to anything in the novels. Has anyone ever worshiped a Chosen? Has anyone tried to found a religion around one? (Elminster being the person that springs right to mind). I know that Chosen of other deities often get elevated to demi-power status after death (technically, by RAW, they are demi-powers/exarchs before death), and in the case of some deities, like Lathander, they manage to get quite a few serving them (all those 'saints'). Isn't this what happened with Azuth and Savras? Or did they not receive any sort of adoration/worship until after Mystra elevated them?

I ask this because it seems to me that at their power level, a chosen of Mystra could easily become a demi-god after death, whether they wanted to be or not. Also, since 4e has blurred the lines, if they are already of that status (exarchs), then can they grant spells? For instance, if someone is in trouble and prays to one of the chosen for help, would it be possible they actually receive some sort of 'divine' help (a spell, or whatever)?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 03 Sep 2012 20:34:30
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30340 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2012 :  22:52:31  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Reading Elfsong ATM (I managed to pick-up a cluster of old Harper novels at Gencon for a great price), and a few things sprang to mind.

First, is there more then one 'layer' to the Lords of waterdeep? It seems to me that there is a 'not so well hidden' layer of lords, that people are supposed to suspect, and then there is a deeper layer. Almost like 'true lords' and 'puppets' (although perhaps not setup in that fashion, this is just how it seems to work out). Also, after reading Waterdeep: A Novel, it appears Elaith Craulnober considers himself a sort 'unofficial' Lord of Waterdeep. Its kind of obvious (from both novels) that the Lords are aware of his activities, but he is more useful then he is troublesome. Does this mean that even they have accepted this psuedo-status? That he is possibly part of that 'deeper layer' that is truly running things?



I'm not Ed, but here's my thoughts:

All the Lords are equal, it's just that some of the Lords have more prominent public personas than others. And when you're trying to guess who may or may not be one of the Hidden Lords, the more prominent figures -- especially those known to have connections to Waterdeep's government -- are going to be the obvious ones to suspect.

Elaith is, for the Lords, a necessary evil. He's the devil they know. And though he is a crime lord, it is in his best interest to maintain the status quo in Waterdeep. So while he doesn't have any official connections to the Lords, and any unofficial connections are coincidental at best, he's a known factor that helps keep the lawless elements of the city under control. So long as he doesn't become a threat to Waterdeep's stability, the Lords are content to keep an eye on him and pay more attention to larger concerns.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2012 :  02:13:13  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Marco Volo

quote:
Originally posted by Arunsun

Marco means Dretch (a monster whose name, for some reason, hasn't been translated in any edition), and I second the question!


Corrected !
Ma langue a fourchée, as we say in France.

And the Sage, thanks in advance for searching the answer to my question.

Aye.

It appears I was slightly in error. Steven did address the query, back in 2005, but he also suggested Ed might be the more appropriate person to ask.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Arunsun
Acolyte

France
5 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2012 :  09:27:33  Show Profile Send Arunsun a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Marco Volo

quote:
Originally posted by Arunsun

Marco means Dretch (a monster whose name, for some reason, hasn't been translated in any edition), and I second the question!


Corrected !
Ma langue a fourchée, as we say in France.

And the Sage, thanks in advance for searching the answer to my question.

Aye.

It appears I was slightly in error. Steven did address the query, back in 2005, but he also suggested Ed might be the more appropriate person to ask.



If you mean Steven's answer in January 2005 (to a more general question about the price of rentals in Waterdeep), it only covers the exact location of Carolya's and Lara's Rowhouse in Dretch Lane, not the origin or meaning of the street's name.
So unless you're thinking of another answer (I just read through the whole 2005 thread) I don't think Steven actually addressed that particular query.
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2012 :  14:07:16  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message
Roughly how many noble houses exist(ed) in the Vast in about 1370 DR?

Any chance Ed could mention a few of the most influential ones?

And to what extent would a Vast noble be a "city-noble" rather than "landed gentry"?

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2012 :  14:08:54  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message
And continuing on the Vast, what's the typical naming convention for settlements outside the cities? (For the settlements themselves, that is, not the people living in them, i.e. what kinds of things are settlements in the Vast named for?)

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1412 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2012 :  18:10:35  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Arunsun

Marco means Dretch (a monster whose name, for some reason, hasn't been translated in any edition), and I second the question!


Is tht the Dretch that is a demon (tanar'ri) or devil (baatezu) in 2e?

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2012 :  18:11:47  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
I think Ed's Polyhedron articles on the Vast included origins for all or almost all of the place names in the Vast. And the CITY OF RAVENS BLUFF sourcebook he did described a dozen or more noble families. I don't think that lore has been reprinted anywhere since, though.
BB
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 04 Sep 2012 :  18:19:45  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Indeed. And all the nobles of the Vast have "city mansions" AND country estates (large working farms from which they derive most of their dependable ongoing wealth, their investments in shipping being more speculative).

Ed tells me Dretch Lane is named for a long-ago slaughter of nine dretch (the diabolical creatures) that were released there when a wagon containing them (as imprisoned cargo, secretly bound for a noble villa in the city) overturned. Several citizens got involved in the fight/butchery, and the incident became briefly famous in city lore and the laneway was named for it.

love to all,
THO
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 05 Sep 2012 :  02:34:20  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Arunsun

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Marco Volo

quote:
Originally posted by Arunsun

Marco means Dretch (a monster whose name, for some reason, hasn't been translated in any edition), and I second the question!


Corrected !
Ma langue a fourchée, as we say in France.

And the Sage, thanks in advance for searching the answer to my question.

Aye.

It appears I was slightly in error. Steven did address the query, back in 2005, but he also suggested Ed might be the more appropriate person to ask.



If you mean Steven's answer in January 2005 (to a more general question about the price of rentals in Waterdeep), it only covers the exact location of Carolya's and Lara's Rowhouse in Dretch Lane, not the origin or meaning of the street's name.
So unless you're thinking of another answer (I just read through the whole 2005 thread) I don't think Steven actually addressed that particular query.

Yeah, I compiled that particular lot of Steven's replies, which was among the first lot of sources that I checked.

As it turns out, it was actually on the REALMS-L that I found the original query for Steven about Dretch Lane.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2052 Posts

Posted - 05 Sep 2012 :  04:09:44  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus

quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha



So you could have Elaine writing about Liriel and the Elves Three, you writing adventures of a young Mirt and Durnan, Bob finally getting to show Josidiah's quest for the Warblade, all while Erin Evans continues her 4e-era works, and someone else who wanted could write "picking up the pieces after the Spellplague." Or the Return of Bane. Or Romeo and Juliette as reimagined in the Crown Wars. Or whatever. And since novels are only supposed to have local consequences, as opposed to major across-the-Realms changes, all of these series could co-exist in peace.

Do you think this is at all possible, once the Sundering RSE is over? And is there anyone we could lobby to make it more likely?



This type of stuff would be really nice to see. I'd even say it'd be nice to do these in short story, novelet, and novella format. Take Science Fiction & Fantasy, a little 160 page book that costs $4.50 and has about half a dozen of these types of stories put out every two months I believe. Wizards could release this in ebook format for a small fee or tie it into DDI or whatever. It'd be a good option for stories that may not support an entire novel's length and maybe even for younger readers due to lower page count and story length. It would also be a good space for Wizards to seek out new talented authors and characters for the Realms. I for one would love to be able to download a little book of Realms centered short stories onto my iPad every couple months.
From what was said at the seminars, and most especially at the Candlekeep meet-up, this is the direction that the authors/designers want the Realms to go in (and bear in mind that Ed now has more official 'say' then ever before). The Forgotten Realms is about interesting stories, not what year they are set in.

On the other hand, WotC has the final say in what we see, even if they aren't taking a direct approach in the steering of the Realms (which is being left up to Ed and others). James Wyatt, however, made it abundantly clear that WE, the fans are actually deciding what we will see, by our purchasing habits between now and the release of 5e.

So if you see something you like in the product line-up, don't just buy it. Get your friends to buy it, buy it for folks as X-mas presents, line your bird-cages with it (Richard Byers actually said something along these lines). We have to let them know what we want, and then we will see more of it. This means spending money, not just complaining on the internet.

For the first time ever, more then ever, we are literally 'voting with our wallets'. Let your voice be heard.

{interlude over}

And now its question time: Has Ed ever considered writing a sequel to his original (Zirta) story? Someone brought-up the notion of a 'serialized' story being put on the WotC site, perhaps in comic format, in order to bring-in more people to the site itself. Something along the lines of Order of the Stick, but with better art and FR-specific. I think that would be a great vehicle for an extended Zirta tale (and we'd finally get to uncover more of Filfaeril's secrets).



But we cannot buy anything until the novels and other products are acutally out, so how will they know what we like beforehand, other than what is posted on the Internet?

Sweet water and light laughter
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2052 Posts

Posted - 05 Sep 2012 :  08:22:18  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message
*rereads last statement* so between now and 5e counts ey? Do we have to purchase items from a specific place, or just anywhere? ex: Amazon or Barnes and Noble.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14389 Posts

Posted - 05 Sep 2012 :  08:42:27  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Hint: Buy Ed Greenwood presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms. Buy copies for your friends. Buy a copy for your dog. Buy copies as X-mas presents for your great aunt Petunia.

That sends the message "Yes! This! THIS is what we want! Give us moooooore!"

And now I got this odd picture of me hunched-over in a bookstore stroking a copy, and whispering, "my precious..."

Except I look more like an Ogre then some sort of goblin (I get compared to Shrek a lot... by my own kids... tell me again why we have those?)

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 06 Sep 2012 07:41:48
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1489 Posts

Posted - 05 Sep 2012 :  12:22:43  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir

Is tht the Dretch that is a demon (tanar'ri) or devil (baatezu) in 2e?
Dretch is a Least Tanar'ri.
Though equating one to (another) is wrong. That is a classification by the Clueless sages and this is a race (of course, they vary wildly, but still have common traits). E.g. quasit and bebilith are Chaotic Evil fiends and retriever is a Chaotic Evil fiendish living construct, but neither of them is a Tanar'ri. Conversely, about 1/5 of Alu-fiends are said to be non-evil, and theoretically one can be born and raised wholly on the Prime, but she would still be a Lesser Tanar'ri.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

And now I got this odd picture of me hunched-over in a bookstore stroking a copy, and whispering, "my precious..."
Except I look more like an Ogre then a some sort of goblin (I get compared to Shrek a lot... by my own kids... tell me again why we have those?)
IIRC, originally this guy ate goblins when he could catch them, right? So maybe he was gaunt, but big enough.
Which would also makes sense from artifact transformation PoV: the only "proper wearer" for the One Ring is Sauron himself, and he looked rather impressive, so it stretched the little guy as much as it could. If those goblinses were a little more sstupid and consequently Gollum could eat better, he would probably look more like a half-ogre-ling, yesss, he would.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch

Edited by - TBeholder on 05 Sep 2012 14:57:32
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