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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1397 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2012 :  18:46:39  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Lady Shadowflame
If you're injured badly and then healed fully by magic, do any scars that were on the injured skin go away too?

Well, AFAIK, even when you are fully healed it's like accelerating the healing processes, and scars remain. That's why it was an special power of some followers of Sūne to heal without leaving scars. However, you could state that higher level healing spells would left you without scars (i.e., someone fully healed with a "cure" spell would have scars, while those cured with a "heal" spell would be free of any marks). And then, "heal" could be used the way you suggest. Only a suggestion, let's see if Ed has something to say about it.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2012 :  19:29:58  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
Hello THO and Ed,

Ed, could you expand on something you wrote on page 303 of Bury Elminster Deep, where the character Vainrence says, "The little tellsong I cast across the passage here is gone. Meaning powerful magic has been cast, very close by."

What is a tellsong, exactly? We've talked about it on the in this croll on the Sages of Realmslore shelf. Cantrips that fade in the presence of strong magic, something related to spellsong, a fancy name for detect magic have all been suggested.

Thanks also for dropping little bits like this into your novels. Makes for some fun thinking and conjecture.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2012 :  21:26:32  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Jeremy, Ed and I chatted about BED when I first read it (some time back, now), and here's he sent me about tellsongs:

A tellsong is an alarm spell, triggered under specific conditions (like those governing a magic mouth), that is invisible, and its "alarm" is a chiming tune, audible only to the caster (unless the caster desires otherwise and sets it so during casting), that sounds whenever the caster comes within range.
It either chimes one way, to signal its continued presence and active status, or another way, to tell the caster whatever it was set to detect has happened.
If touched by detection magic or by any powerful unleashed magical effect, the tellsong is instantly and tracelessly destroyed (i.e. the person detecting magic wouldn't detect it, because their attempt to detect it would destroy it).
Meaning, in this particular case, the Lord Warder knows that someone or something destroyed this tellsong of his, without "setting it off." Which in turn usually means a spellcaster of some skills, who was alert for traps or alarms, has been in a tellsong-guarded area.
The name of the spell came from its earliest form, devised long ago, when Myth Drannan casters (usually elves, but this was the [[first]]time of the City of Song open to all races) sang something or magically "recorded" someone else singing something, and used it as the audible alarm part of the spell.

So saith Ed. And there you have it. Ed works all sorts of new magics, and everyday casual names for spells already in the rulebooks, into all of his Realms fiction, and some of it survives the editing ... and gets noticed.
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2012 :  21:42:20  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Postscript to the above:
That's how I first came across spellsong and spellsingers, in the days before TSR started publishing the Realms as a product line: both of them were initially mere passing mentions in Ed's Realms fiction. (Oh, Ed knew what they were, but in the narrative flow and the dialogue of characters, there were no jolting stops for lore-lectures, just the mentions. Ed knew we'd eventually catch up to him, elsewhere and elsewhen.)
love,
THO
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2012 :  22:49:16  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
Thank you, Lady Herald of Realmslore.

EDIT: And rest assured, we'll not stop looking for these little bits of Realmslore.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).

Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 24 May 2012 22:51:06
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2012 :  03:21:13  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

The name of the spell came from its earliest form, devised long ago, when Myth Drannan casters (usually elves, but this was the [[first]]time of the City of Song open to all races) sang something or magically "recorded" someone else singing something, and used it as the audible alarm part of the spell.
Oh, Ed. You just had to know that this would tweak my inner Realms-music geek, eh?

What more, if anything, can you share with me re: these magically "recorded" singing techniques employed in old Myth Drannor?

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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2012 :  03:50:00  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

What more, if anything, can you share with me re: these magically "recorded" singing techniques employed in old Myth Drannor?
And could you also tell us if these techniques have anything to do with the spell echo effect you wrote about ten (?) years or so ago on the WotC site?

It was an article about snippets of phrases or whole sentences that could be heard if the right spell was cast in the area where the Weave had captured/recorded(???) the words spoken long ago.

Forgive me if I'm way off here; I can't find the article on the WotC site.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2012 :  05:33:47  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

What more, if anything, can you share with me re: these magically "recorded" singing techniques employed in old Myth Drannor?
And could you also tell us if these techniques have anything to do with the spell echo effect you wrote about ten (?) years or so ago on the WotC site?

It was an article about snippets of phrases or whole sentences that could be heard if the right spell was cast in the area where the Weave had captured/recorded(???) the words spoken long ago.

Forgive me if I'm way off here; I can't find the article on the WotC site.



WotC has rearranged their website at least 17 times since that article first appeared in April 2001... But I recalled enough to put my search fu to the test! I couldn't locate the article on their site, because WotC happily shuffles stuff about without bothering with minor details like updating links... But knowing the article was about was enough for me to find a reference to the original link, and that took me to the Internet Archive...

I give you: weave whispers! (gotta copy/paste the whole link for it to work)

http://web.archive.org/web/20090604101115/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fr/20010404

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 25 May 2012 05:34:20
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2012 :  05:40:23  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Confound it! Wooly beat me to it.

But, yeah. I've been recently updating my own listing with the Web Archive to help find those "lost" Wizards' articles of truly 'forgotten' Realmslore.

I've already archived most of it for my archives, at home, but that's hardly of help to those scribes looking for online access. So it pays to keep my listing of links as up-to-date as possible -- even if it means digging through the Internet Archive.

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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2012 :  16:08:51  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
Wooly, that's just awesome. Thank you!

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13785 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2012 :  18:24:30  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Are 'Weave Whispers' more likely to be accessible (sometimes heard randomly, without a trigger) in areas of large deposits of quartz and limestone (and perhaps magnetite)?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1361 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2012 :  18:51:41  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message
Hi Ed and THO,
I was wondering if there is anything you both could tell us about drow Spellwebs and how they work? I'd be totally ok with any rules references being in 2E format or just general info to play around with. They seem stronger than wards, but not as powerful as a mythal? Are they a common defense theme among houses or would they require some high powered arcane work to get them functioning? Thank you both and have a great weekend! Should be interesting on my front, rolling out to the oilfields in the Bakken this weekend for pictures and video!
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Entromancer
Senior Scribe

USA
388 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2012 :  19:13:29  Show Profile Send Entromancer a Private Message
THO, do any of Ed's novels outside of the Forgotten Realms, such as the Falconfar Saga, The Band of Four or the dark warrior novels, include elements present in the Realms that Ed set some of his oldest stories in (before TSR picked up the Realms for publication)? Are the tone of these in line with his original Realms?


"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul

"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2012 :  20:50:48  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
Speaking of magically recorded singing: are the orbs that can record voices (that were mentioned on page 90 of Elminster Must Die) related to tellsongs? That is, are tellsongs used as a sort of "base spell" around which to craft the orbs?

The novel mentions that the orbs are a recent creation of the war wizards, so I'm wondering if tellsongs and/or Vainrence had anything to do with the creation of these orbs.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2012 :  22:13:52  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Eilserus, off your question goes to Ed, but I can tell you that spellwebs are basically stronger wards rather than mythals (if a mythal affects every inch of space in an area, or is a "field," a ward-spell is far more limited, affecting a door or threshold or small passage/room - - or "trigger areas" for spells linked magically to other trigger areas, which is where the "webs" term comes from).
So a middling-range spellcaster could set up a very simple spellweb (intruder entering this spot without doing X causes minor offensive spell to go off, and if that spell goes off, a spell-link causes an alarm [[either audible or silent, like magical radiance "coming on" in an area]] to be triggered elsewhere).
A more powerful spellcaster could set up a more powerful spellweb, with layers of spells, contingencies in case anti-magic/dispelling is used against the spellweb, and so on.
A REALLY powerful spellcaster could set up a spellweb that rivaled a simple mythal in properties, but a spellweb is always inherently more unstable than (and won't last as long as) a mythal.
All of this derived from many past discussions (and play) with Ed.
love,
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2012 :  22:22:06  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again.
Entromancer, none of Ed's other novel series are directly linked to the Realms.
If you went to work shuffling deities, the Niflheim and the Aglirta books (Band of Four quartet plus The Silent House) COULD be located in "hitherto unknown" corners of the Realms, but the Falconfar books would be a much harder fit.
Aside from setting out to entertain and to have fun, Ed wrote all of those books to explore specific fantasy tropes, so they certainly share fantasy tropes with the Realms - - but Ed also saw them as an opportunity to have magic and geopolitics and even "classic monsters" like dragons work differently than in D&D, so they ARE different.
None of them are all that close in tone to Ed's original Realms, either (the early Band of Four books are the closest, but that doesn't make them "close").
The short story "One Comes, Unheralded, To Zirta" (published as a GenCon chapbook and in THE BEST OF THE REALMS, VOLUME II paperback anthology) is the closest any of the published Realms gets to the tone of Ed's original...because aside from a few light editing touches, it IS Ed's original.
Hope this is of help.
love,
THO
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 26 May 2012 :  04:43:42  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
So a recent discussion has me wondering...

2E introduced to us the various planetouched races: folks like genasi and tieflings, near-humans with a bit of blood from beyond. And then 3E officially ported those races to the Realms.

Me, I think it works, because with portals leading everywhere in the Realms, there's bound to be some people hooking up with travellers and such from other planes.

Here's my question: Did Ed's original, pre-published Realms include planetouched people? I understand that he wouldn't have called them genasi or tieflings, but I'm wondering if he had the same basic concept in his Realms.

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 26 May 2012 04:44:14
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 26 May 2012 :  07:13:17  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

So a recent discussion has me wondering...

2E introduced to us the various planetouched races: folks like genasi and tieflings, near-humans with a bit of blood from beyond. And then 3E officially ported those races to the Realms.

Me, I think it works, because with portals leading everywhere in the Realms, there's bound to be some people hooking up with travellers and such from other planes.

Here's my question: Did Ed's original, pre-published Realms include planetouched people? I understand that he wouldn't have called them genasi or tieflings, but I'm wondering if he had the same basic concept in his Realms.

As additional queries to this, since Wooly's got me wondering... if Ed's pre-published Realms did include planetouched, then what, perhaps, were they called?

And were they all lumped into a general racial grouping, or did Ed have a specific Realms-term for each of the individual planetouched races?

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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
6235 Posts

Posted - 26 May 2012 :  07:53:58  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message
AD&D 1E had alu-demons (always female offspring of human-succubus) and cambions (usually male offspring sired by a devil), as well as human shades (who were extremely rare) and basic rules for playing these races. AD&D 2E Planescape redefined alu-fiends and cambions, introduced tieflings, and eventually introduced genasi, aasimar, and eladrins. D&D 3E made tieflings, aasimar, genasi, and eventually shades into more "mainstream" player races. D&D 4E basically changed tieflings and eladrin into different races than they were before, now "homegrown" Realms populations descended from planars. The Gith races (particularly Githzerai) were also playable in every edition, mostly within Planescape. Avariel (winged elves) are often referred to as being a sort of aasimar, descended from elven and celestial parentage, although - just as often - this is dismissed as myth. The earliest descriptions of the drow (dhaerow) claimed they had other-worldly or extraplanar origins, but this was redefined from late-1E onwards.

Any or all of these could have easily existed in the Realms, regardless of edition.

I, too, am very interested in THO's reply.

Eat lots of garlic - it keeps the elves and vampires away.
Don't stick your sword into dragons, you just don't know where they've been.
Avoid stepping on halflings. They stick to your boots, will smell awful, and are impossible to scrape off.
Ah, of course. Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.
[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 26 May 2012 08:09:45
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 27 May 2012 :  03:47:14  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
I've sent these last few queries off to Ed but haven't had a reply yet. I can tell you there were definitely cambions in Ed's Realms, because we Knights fought two - - one of them before the cambion monster entry was first published in D&D.
However, more lore will have to come from Ed himself...
love to all,
THO
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30083 Posts

Posted - 27 May 2012 :  04:24:20  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
I've sent these last few queries off to Ed but haven't had a reply yet. I can tell you there were definitely cambions in Ed's Realms, because we Knights fought two - - one of them before the cambion monster entry was first published in D&D.
However, more lore will have to come from Ed himself...
love to all,
THO



Ah, that's right -- Xvim was originally listed as a cambion, as I recall, when he was ruling Westgate.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 27 May 2012 :  04:35:38  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi again, all.
I've sent these last few queries off to Ed but haven't had a reply yet. I can tell you there were definitely cambions in Ed's Realms, ...
Were they just sporadic encounters, or did Ed have a special place for these cambions in his Realms?

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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5037 Posts

Posted - 27 May 2012 :  23:31:47  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Sage, at least two were rulers (albeit one of them lording it over a tiny principality in the Border Kingdoms), one was a mercenary company leader, and one was a "sponsor" (wealthy investor and confidant = manipulator) behind the scenes to several ambitious [but not heirs, and so foreseeing wastrel lives if they didn't do something to rise out of their expected roles] younger nobles of Waterdeep.
So they were all ruthless but intrigue-loving controlling types, but did not seem to have any connections to each other. We Knights thought two of them were aware of each other - - but were keeping out of each other's way.
love,
THO
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Eldacar
Learned Scribe

254 Posts

Posted - 28 May 2012 :  04:08:56  Show Profile  Visit Eldacar's Homepage  Click to see Eldacar's MSN Messenger address Send Eldacar a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

(albeit one of them lording it over a tiny principality in the Border Kingdoms)


I would love to hear more about this, if it's at all possible. I'm still fascinated by anything to do with the Border Kingdoms.

"It always ends. That's what gives it value." ~Death of the Endless
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 28 May 2012 :  04:36:24  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
Indeed, I was just going to hit upon that.

Would either you, milady, or Ed, be able to provide the name of the Border Kingdom principality?

As I've said many-a-time here at Candlekeep, the Border Kingdoms rank as one of my favourite areas of the Realms. So I'm always looking for new and surprising tidbits that I can drop into my fleshing out of the region for my own campaigns.

Oh, and I appreciate the speedy response earlier. My thanks.

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