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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29724 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2012 :  05:14:05  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


In the Realms, how does one define "good"?



Using a dictionary, of course!

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31687 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2012 :  05:30:49  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Another thread had me thinking about Centaurs, and FR Centaur lore is hard to come by. I recall you had some good bits in the Athalanter article (in the timeline) regarding Centaur battles against humans.

Question #1 Could you possibly elaborate on any of that? What were some of the major 'groups' (tribes?) of Centaurs? Did they have any kingdoms? Where can the largest groups be found currently in the Realms (realizing, of course, that 'currently' has become a matter of perspective)?
Ed, I'd like to offer some additional queries to Markustay's current considerations on centaurs.

So, if we're limiting this just to the period of Athalantar's existence, then what were centaur relationships like with other demihuman races at the time? Did the centaurs forge any alliances with others in their battles against humans? Or were they more isolated instances of conflict arising simply because the centaurs would suddenly find humans encroaching on their tribal lands?

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Kajehase
Great Reader

Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2012 :  10:19:59  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


In the Realms, how does one define "good"?



Using a dictionary, of course!



I hear Braunaed's Chondathan (the 1368 edition) is considered the gold standard in Cormyr, whereas Sembians and the people of the Vast swear by the dictionary produced at the temple of Milil in Procampur (which is sadly lacking in words to use when swearing).

There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett

Edited by - Kajehase on 15 Feb 2012 10:24:03
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2012 :  18:46:42  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder

And when Tanalasta paid too much attention to Chauntea it was taken badly not because the place is taken, but because no one else in the Palace wanted anything that looks remotely like giving a noticeable influence to (or create dependency on) any faith.
Aye, I'm aware of that Royal concern (something Brian Cortijo touched on in his Cormyr Royale article recently).

My question stems in part from a memory about how the novel Cormyr ended. King Azoun IV orders that certain faithful of Tyr(?) be called upon to attend to the burial of his two cousins.

The names he used for the faithful weren’t their actual personal names, but their titles. Granted I’m not sure if these are court titles or some sort of functionary title the faithful of Tyr give themselves.

Regardless it begs the question of how Azoun IV knew who these people were and what official function, if any, these individuals can be called upon to serve the Crown.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2012 :  19:06:30  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
Hello Ed and milady THO!

I've been having a great time since returning to Candlekeep about a month ago; I probably needed that extended break. Anyway, a recent scroll of speculation regarding Cormyr has occupied my attention in the past few days, and I was wondering if you could shed some light on things... particulary regarding Vangerdahast's intended transformation in the broader context of the existence of the human realm of Cormyr. I'm expecting to run into an NDA here... I find it's just easier that way.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

NDA? Its blatantly spelled-out in the Cormyr novel.

Humans are allowed in 'the forest kingdom' so long as an Obarskyr rules.

The thing that is 'NDA' is precisely WHAT would happen if an Obarskyr did not rule. I'm of the opinion that it is some High-Magic 'curse' laid down by the Elves of old - Elves like massacring tens of thousands of people. It's sort of their hobby.

In the words of Ed Greenwood (from the annotated Elminster), "Elves ARE monsters."



quote:
Originally posted by Eladrinstar

And Vangerdahast, in Swords of Eveningstar, mentions in passing how people superstitiously believe if the Obarskyrs failed to rule "The dragons would return in great numbers to hunt humans." IIRC, at least. Maybe that has a hint of truth. Not quite a High Magic curse, nor something that would spare the elves either.



And my self-quote from the same scroll, as my question to you:

Hrm... I wonder if this is connected in any way with Vangey's intended transformation in a draconic direction... this sounds like "ask Ed"... with the inevitable "NDA" answer... or a simple "no"...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore

1338 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2012 :  20:51:43  Show Profile Send Mumadar Ibn Huzal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

Regardless it begs the question of how Azoun IV knew who these people were and what official function, if any, these individuals can be called upon to serve the Crown.


In our own real world history, from the time of the Merovingians up until the 12th century or so, it was actually quite common (in germanic region for Bishops to be actually laymen in the church and be more of a worldly leader... owing allegiance to a king or emperor. I could very well imagine a similar setup in Cormyr (or in most of feudal Faerun for that matter)
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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe

USA
196 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2012 :  22:57:35  Show Profile Send Eladrinstar a Private Message
Regarding Jakk's question which quoted something I said, I have a slight correction. Vangey actually said in full:

"When this realm was founded, the first Obarskyrs to dwell on these shores entered into agreements with the elves who held this land, just as the elves had with the dragons who ruled here before them. Down the years, there have been many disagreements as to just what happened back then, and what was agreed to--and to quell ceaseless civil war using such pretexts as its banners, solemn treaties have been written, and laws devised and passed pertaining to those treaties. In short, no matter what really befell, Cormyr has agreed to commonly accept and abide by a certain version of events and rules tied to them. If this agreement is broken, we are taught (and so the heads of households grand and rude all across this kingdom believe) the Dragon Throne will shatter, the dragons will return in great numbers to hunt humans, and the realm will be swept away."

The correction is that he didn't specifically note that this would happen (or was believed to happen, if it's just superstition) if an Obarksyr didn't rule. He specifically gave this speech to Tanalasta in response to the girl saying she would use the high priests to resurrect her parents if she had to. Now, there may be somewhere in Realmslore the confirmation that the agreement with the elves was that only the Obarskyrs who must rule Cormyr, but it's not in that speech, I don't think.

Edited by - Eladrinstar on 15 Feb 2012 22:58:39
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2012 :  23:05:31  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
Hello again Ed! I'm a fountain of speculation today; probably something to do with seeing Elminster Enraged on amazon.ca.

So, I'm once again spoiler-tagging this speculation, largely because it mentions the existence of a deity presumed deceased since the Spellplague... Here's something to think about. Mystra is apparently killed on her home plane (which shatters) and the ascension of a new deity of magic is blocked. Given how quickly she reincarnated herself the previous two times she was killed, this immediately set off alarm bells that something wasn't right. My thought has been that she triggered the destruction of Dweomerheart to save herself from her attackers, but doing so left her too weak to do much of anything except hold herself together for the following century as she regained power and control and rebuilt the Weave; this was very likely not foreseen or intended on her part. The ascension of a new deity of magic was blocked because the old one was never dead. Mind you, I also believe that this is true all the way back, and that the goddess we call Mystra is in fact (at least in some small part at her core) Mystryl, even through the ToT and the Spellplague. I had originally written this in reply to another scribe in another scroll, but I thought that it was too much speculation and too much potential spoiler, so I thought I'd put it where people could choose whether or not to read it for themselves, and perhaps get some vague answers from you at the same time. So, is the answer "incorrect" or "NDA"? I can't see there being a third option until after the previously-mentioned novel is published. Again, many thanks, Ed and THO, and all the best to you, yours, and the Realms!

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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Eladrinstar
Learned Scribe

USA
196 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2012 :  23:17:12  Show Profile Send Eladrinstar a Private Message
Ed or THO (or anyone else who may have this info) I've noticed TH sounds are present in nearly every language in the Realms. On Earth, it's actually pretty rare. Now I'm not suggesting the Realms has to be like the real world, I'm just saying it's an odd linguistic feature. I like it. Was this a conscious decision to put it in all of these languages (to give them a sort of unified flavor) or an accident of Ed simply being an English speaker, or something else?
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2012 :  23:23:06  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
And hello again!

Regarding Eladrinstar's comment posted while I was asking my previous question, does this mean that the agreement with the elves prohibits the resurrection or raising of a deceased royal? That would make sense given the scenario with Tanalasta surrounding the birth of Azoun V.

Also, I had another question that came up in another scroll here: Are the nilshai, the phaerimm, and the sharn related? As noted in the referenced scroll, all three species have trilateral symmetry, and I can't believe that it's a coincidence that there are three such species of significance in the Realms. I suspect I may be staring down the dreaded NDA once again, but I thought I might as well ask...

Edit: ...and three inquiring posts in one day... Okay, I'm going to step away from the computer for a bit now...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 15 Feb 2012 23:25:17
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2012 :  00:03:54  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


In the Realms, how does one define "good"?


Using a dictionary, of course!


I'm actually curious if there's some sort of "standard" in the Realms in determining what is good and what is evil. It appears like shady or seemingly neutral characters get more attention in the novels (not that I dislike it; on the contrary), and one wonders if good people are but a myth.

Even priests whose patron deities are of good alignment commit 'crimes' for the 'greater good.'

Every beginning has an end.
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Cassie5squared
Seeker

United Kingdom
33 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2012 :  00:29:22  Show Profile Send Cassie5squared a Private Message
Hi there, I am a very new person to these boards!

I'm not sure if this is the right place to be asking, but I was curious as to the organisation of churches in the realms, in particular how someone enters the service of a particular god.

The reason I ask is that I'm working on creating backstory for a character at the moment who's a Tyrran cleric from Waterdeep. He's known he wanted to serve Tyr since he was pretty young - always seemed to be the kid trying to make the others play fair, that sort of thing. My issue is that I can't find any information on how old he would have to be to even get accepted as a novice in the temple, or how he'd go about requesting acceptance.

Any information on the recruitment and application procedures of the Tyrran faith (and maybe others if that's not too much trouble) would be absolutely wonderful.

Thanking you!

"Why do any of us get up in the morning? Why, for the joy and fun the day might bring us, if we're awake to see it! Up, then, and find ye fun!" - Elminster of Shadowdale

"And from the flames
As chance would have it
The Soulforged will come into light~" - Blind Guardian, "The Soulforged"
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2012 :  01:56:51  Show Profile  Visit Joran Nobleheart's Homepage Send Joran Nobleheart a Private Message
May I be the first to welcome you here, Cassie! I hope you enjoy your stay with us here at Candlekeep!

Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1393 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2012 :  09:49:41  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message
Welcome, Cassie, and you came to the right place. There are old books which can answer a lot of questions about the Tyrran faith, in different editions of the Dungeons & Dragons game, like Forgotten Realms Adventures, Faiths & Avatars (one of the best books for priests, in my opinion) and Faiths & Pantheons. However, I don't think any of them deals with the question you brought about the minimum age of a priest, and here the creator of the Realms, Ed Greenwood, can check and answer to your doubts.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2012 :  09:52:28  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
Following Jakk's example, spoiler-tagging part of this...

I second (and add to) Jakk's question on Mystra, especially based on this part he wrote:
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk:
Mind you, I also believe that this is true all the way back, and that the goddess we call Mystra is in fact (at least in some small part at her core) Mystryl, even through the ToT and the Spellplague.


So, it was said that Mystra decreased her own power by creating her Chosen, and various reasons are given: "Some say it was a command of the Overgod Ao that led Mystra to act as she did. Others claim it was her own wisdom, foresight, and self-sacrifice... Some learned folk in the Realms cling to the theory that Mystra's power must be rooted (or 'sourced' as they put it) in mortals. Others believe that she was ordered to lessen her own power by a greater authority... A third theory holds that Mystra's move to vest some of her divine power in mortals was a matter of clever tactics on her part... Whatever the reason, it is clear that Mystra told Azuth at about the time of the Year of the Rising Flame (0 DR) that some of her divine power must be given into the hands of mortals. It would slumber within them, so that Mystra could call on it only with their permission" (from The Seven Sisters).

And indeed, we've seen Mystra's Chosen use Silver Flames and their divine powers to empower Mystra. But there are very few Chosen who were Chosen by Midnight. Most Chosen we know were Chosen by Mystra, and a bare few have been hinted to be Chosen by Mystryl (Hilather/Halaster). Since part of Mystra's power is in her Chosen, as long as those Chosen survive, some part of the original Mystryl/Mystra must survive, no?

This is why I've been recently asking about missing Chosen (such as Symrustar, Alvaerele, The Srinshee) after the Spellplague. Because if they survive, their power might be enough to help restore Mystra. So, can Ed say anything about what Jakk wrote of, or what I wrote of? At the least, is such a restoration feasible?

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."

Edited by - Menelvagor on 16 Feb 2012 16:34:31
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1073 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2012 :  10:53:42  Show Profile  Visit crazedventurers's Homepage Send crazedventurers a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk

And hello again!

Regarding Eladrinstar's comment posted while I was asking my previous question, does this mean that the agreement with the elves prohibits the resurrection or raising of a deceased royal? That would make sense given the scenario with Tanalasta surrounding the birth of Azoun V.


I am sure I have read that any noble that is raised from the dead automatically forfeits all claims to noble titles in case their spirit is not their own and belongs to something else. So therefore as no one can trust the newly living noble, it is simply not done to make sure that the family name is never 'tainted' by whispers from others (their enemies) casting aspersions on the nature of said noble family, (though I cannot find the exact reference at the moment).

We do know that after Azoun IV's death Vangy took tissue samples and blood from the surviving Obarskyrs and kept them safe somewhere in case cloning was required (See Dragon Annual 5), so perhaps this is one way around the inheritance issue?

Cheers

Damian

EDIT: found more on the reasons why Tana wasn't raised

http://www.starbacks.ca/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/ed-cormyrtrilogy.htm

So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005

Edited by - crazedventurers on 16 Feb 2012 11:07:57
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13276 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2012 :  19:21:17  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
{sigh} Why insist on asking questions directly pertaining to an unfinished and CURRENT storyline?

Did you also look in your parent's closet for your Christmas presents?

(Ignore me - RW crap has got me grouchy)

ED, were any of Mystra/Mystryl's former incarnations Elven?

@Cassie - WELCOME to Candlekeep!

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 16 Feb 2012 19:22:19
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5036 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2012 :  19:54:27  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Your questions have all gone off to Ed, who is racing to finish the script of another issue of the forthcoming FR comic.
Re. this, from Jeremy Grenemyer, I can contribute a little: "My question stems in part from a memory about how the novel Cormyr ended. King Azoun IV orders that certain faithful of Tyr(?) be called upon to attend to the burial of his two cousins. The names he used for the faithful weren’t their actual personal names, but their titles. Granted I’m not sure if these are court titles or some sort of functionary title the faithful of Tyr give themselves.
Regardless it begs the question of how Azoun IV knew who these people were and what official function, if any, these individuals can be called upon to serve the Crown."

Not being Ed, my answer can by no means be comprehensive or complete, but as one of Ed's players, I can say this much: those are in-faith titles, and Azoun would know those priests because he reigned for a good stretch of years and all upperpriests of any faith publicly tolerated in Cormyr would be formally presented at court, then have a private "let's sit and talk and get to know each other" audience with the King, and from time to time be expected to attend court for certain ceremonies and consultations. So Azoun would know who they were, even if he didn't know them well.
Ed, of course, will say more.
love,
THO

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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2012 :  20:17:21  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
Many thanks, kind lady.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Menelvagor
Senior Scribe

Israel
352 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2012 :  20:39:30  Show Profile  Visit Menelvagor's Homepage Send Menelvagor a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay:
Did you also look in your parent's closet for your Christmas presents?


Nope. But I did manage to find my Hanukkah presents a few times, and was very happy to know that had managed to buy the right books.

Anyway, two more questions. Firstly, is there a holiday similar to Hanukkah in the Realms? Some sort of Festival of Lights or something?
Secondly, do the Realms have such real world effects as eclipses and parhelions? If so, were there any ones that were notable due to an event associated with them (like the Battle of the Eclipse), and what do sun-worshipers (Lathander/Amaunator/Myrkul/Jergal) think of them?

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly.
How much less them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation in the dust, are crushed before the moth?" - Eliphaz the Temanite, Job IV, 17-19.

"Yea, though he live a thousand years twice, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?" - Ecclesiastes VI, 6.

"There are no stupid questions – just a bunch of inquisitive idiots."

"Let's not call it 'hijacking'. Let's call it 'Thread Drift'."
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2012 :  22:45:58  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
Hello Ed and THO,

Having just read Ed's most recent (and very entertaining) Eye on the Realms article—The Enchanted Painting of Manyshields Hall—I'm curious to know if Ed has written up anything else about Company of the Oskrisk?

Did they have any important contacts, friends, relatives (or debtors) back in Cormyr that would spend coin to send someone(s) to look for the Company after some time has passed and the Company fails to return Sembia?

Did the Company's presence in Sembia owe itself to their desire to range ever wider to seek adventure? Or did they have enemies or troubles back in Cormyr that made it necessary for the Company to go to Sembia for a time—perhaps because they have stolen or recovered-through-adventure property that a rich Cormyrean wants for him/herself (and that Salkrorn and the thing in the painting now possess)?

Your article seems like a good way to move the adventurers in my Realms game out of Cormyr and into Sembia at some future point. Thank you Ed for making it all so interesting and fun.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).

Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 16 Feb 2012 23:19:40
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13276 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2012 :  23:40:29  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message
Ed, are there any Faerunian holidays wherein it is customary to exchange gifts? How about other celebratory occasions?

quote:
Originally posted by Menelvagor

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay:
Did you also look in your parent's closet for your Christmas presents?


Nope. But I did manage to find my Hanukkah presents a few times, and was very happy to know that had managed to buy the right books.
Well, then its a good thing you didn't find Christmas presents, because that would have been confusing as hell.

l'chaim

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 16 Feb 2012 23:42:26
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Rils
Learned Scribe

USA
93 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2012 :  00:08:02  Show Profile Send Rils a Private Message
Well it's gray and rainy here in Seattle where I live, so moving to the sunny south for my next question:

In Amn, only "licensed" mages approved by the Cowled Wizards are allowed to practice magic. How does one apply for a license, is there a process you have to go through, and what form does this license take? i.e. do you get a membership card, or a magical tattoo, or something of the sort to show "the fuzz" you are an approved magic-user? Also, what are the benefits and responsibilities of being a card-carrying licensed wizard? (Note that I'm assuming you can get licensed without actually joining the Cowled Wizards, please correct me if I'm wrong on that).

Thanks!

Dugmaren Brightmantle is my homey.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2012 :  01:20:26  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message

I could be incorrect, but I vaguely recall they wear a ring bearing the insignia of their organization. It was mentioned in Phil Athans's Baldur's Gate 1, I guess.

Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - Dennis on 17 Feb 2012 01:21:10
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Jakk
Great Reader

Canada
2165 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2012 :  04:23:40  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

{sigh} Why insist on asking questions directly pertaining to an unfinished and CURRENT storyline?


Probably because I've never been the slightest bit good at controlling my curiosity... but yes, you're right. With that in mind, I have a question that I hope Ed can give me some sort of answer to: When will we learn more about what happened to Halaster? I recall Halaster being newly-NDA'd in nearly all respects shortly after the release of 4E... after his death... so I'm assuming there's something in the works there... anything you can give us a release date for, Ed?

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Did you also look in your parent's closet for your Christmas presents?


In fact, I did... and they were hidden in my little brother's closet that year (he was 2 at the time). So I found nothing, which is probably why I love futile inquiry so much...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.
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