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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Dec 2011 : 11:09:00
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I'm a bit confused with the whole transition from 3.5 to 4ED and the magic/wizard/arcane/divine caster. thingy. lol. I get the jist... so who's the most powerful spell caster on faerun now? Alive or undead. Back in 1374 is was like Larloch, El, Shrinshee, and a few other notable art spinners, arcane or divine. What's the deal now? My group jams 3.5 still. Never cared for the new 4ED. So... regardless of novels and stuff, what's the deal?
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2011 : 14:21:28
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We know very little of Larloch or the Shrinshees fate in a post spellplague Realms. Thats both good and yet, bad at the same time. With no information, it's possible an author can come by and detail these character's demise or finish their story (so to speak). But that has yet to come and the good thing is that it's generally accepted that unless something specifically states a fact, it's assumed that little has changed to warrent a footnote. So as of now, Larloch and Shrinshee are both still very powerful beings in the Realms.
Elminster, OTOH, has diminished quite a bit following the spellplague. While I believe the effects of the Blue Fire had little effect on his persons, it effected how he used magic. But more importantly, the loss of his deity and his "Chosen" status left him with considerably less power. These two striking blows were hard to accept and it's a reason he's not the striving archmage Do-Good'er that he once was in the previous century.
This is all from a purely Setting, non-mechanical perspective. There hasn't been a write up of Larloch for 4E (unless I missed it in the Open Grave supplement) nor the Shrinshee, but if I had to guess Larloch would be in the Level 33 range, the Shrinshee around the level 29-31 range. Elminster was "depicted" in a Dungeon Magazine article as a level 19 Solo Controller in his diminished state. This might anger a lot of people, sure, but two things have to be taken into account: the first being the edition change isn't as easily transferrable from one to another. The second is that he did loose a lot of power, and with that, some automatic bonuses/benefits of being a Chosen.
What I did was keep the Dungeon article as a starting point for my PCs, keeping him at level 19 of which the PCs had to defeat him. This isn't to say they killed him, but subdue him to find out how to help him regain his strength. This will then begin the struggle to get Mystra to her deity status again. This won't change the spellplague and she'll need to re-weave The Weave in order to stabalize magic across Faerūn. This process also strenghtens Elminster close to his original power, putting him at about level 28 or so. This re-tooling of his character write-up will all be done Homebrew using the Monster Tools, but at least it'll reflect his older self more so than now. |
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Tarloc
Acolyte
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2011 : 15:18:06
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| i rock 3.5 also. its 1385 dr and the spellplague never.........wait whats the spellplague? lol. i believe i saw telemont/lord shadow like lv 35, srinshee lv 54. my theurge lv 8. ha ha |
"hey, you just rolled two natural twenties!"
"is that a touchdown?" |
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stephenslate
Acolyte
24 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2011 : 07:17:48
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| i must say the difference between 2nd edition in the forgotten realms and the later editions are staggering, and this is only my opinion but they totally messed up the realms, i understand they need new stuff to get new people to play but thats rediculous, im sorry but im glad i stayed with 2nd edition its just more fun for me lol. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2011 : 12:40:00
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| The 2ed Realms were pretty interesting (though I can't stand the ruleset) except for the Time of Troubles. I was never a fan of that time period and hated it even more when DMs would explain that magic didn't work AFTER you rolled up a Mage or Cleric. I guess my biggest complaint is even putting levels to these epic characters. Does the Shrinshee really need to be "statted"? And if so, whats the point of making her a Lvl 54?! It's not as if PCs are even going to approach the idea of attempting to fight her. The entire design of making CR and levels is PC-based assessments of what they can handle in combat. So putting stats to Deities and characters such as the Shrinshee just promotes PC Powergaming IMO. |
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Wolfhound75
Learned Scribe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2011 : 20:22:29
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Ultimately, I think of it like this:
There are a lot of talented people, original creator included (bow to Ed), who are adding lore to the entire history of the realms. That lore, whether or not you personally find it attractive, is undoubtedly much better than what the majority of us could come up with on our own.
So as the designer for my campaign, I view myself as akin to a movie producer or director. Yeah, someone wrote a whole bunch of script for me to peruse but I get to pick and choose what parts make it into the production and what parts you could consider as Realmsian Outtakes. In movies, this sometimes, works well and you end up with a really great product. Sometimes, this leads to a flop. And sometimes, it makes the original author so mad he refuses to sell anymore movie rights for his work (Tom Clancy fans, anyone?). Regardless, I have always felt that Ed of the Greenwood encouraged us to take the realms and give them our own flavor.
If statting out deities doesn't work for your campaign because you are focusing on other areas, great! But if someone wants to run a campaign where the end result is the complete replacement of the pantheon, well, they've got some materiel to get them started.
Good Hunting! |
"Firepower - if it's not working, you're not using enough." ~ Military Proverb
"If at first you do succeed, you must've rolled a natural 20!" |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2011 : 20:38:18
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quote:
Diffan
I guess my biggest complaint is even putting levels to these epic characters. Does the Shrinshee really need to be "statted"? And if so, whats the point of making her a Lvl 54?! It's not as if PCs are even going to approach the idea of attempting to fight her.
None of the epic-worldly NPCs needs stats. Put stats on Ao and you'll quickly find packs of powergaming PCs planning to drop him. This also applies to the lowliest shopkeep, peasant, or slave, and to the mightiest archmages, dragons, and liches. 3E was the worst for this (even worse than 1E), by fanatically putting stats onto everything that moved; the design of 4E (so far) doesn't intend for players to kill Elminster and the gods, so no stats for these entities have been given. |
[/Ayrik] |
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stephenslate
Acolyte
24 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2012 : 08:36:02
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| Unfortunately they have put stats to AO he is supposedly as powerful as any one deity, and as all of them put together, so that would be his stats simple but yet stats, and any deity can be layed low by the lack of followers, or in AO's position if there were no deities. |
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1374 to present.
