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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 23 Apr 2012 :  14:36:52  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Night of Knives was more of a short story for the fans. Obviously its not something that I would recommend to a newcomer. Start with gardens of the moons but personally i much preferred Deadhouse Gates.
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 23 Apr 2012 :  14:46:09  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


I haven't read all the books, but the ones I did were good enough for one- or two-time read, except the many fillers and ridiculous names.

The system of magic is nice. Character development is fine; and some character backgrounds are exceptionally done. The gods are a different story, though--- they can be punched near-unconscious by "common" soldiers.


Yeah I can understand that he has a whole "Dear Gods, don't mess with mortals" type of philosophy but I think he takes it a bit to far. Like you said his " gods" often get beaten by common soldiers and this makes it hard for you to take them seriously.
I mean i love Elminister but even at the height of his powers would he been able to overpower say Bane. Not really.
A god that weak commands no respect and without respect how can he inspire faith?
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2012 :  02:41:21  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nilus Reynard

I had to go with other & that other is Anne McCaffrey.


Two of my close friends have been bugging me to read her books. But having heard that her books are usually about dragons, no thanks.

Every beginning has an end.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29643 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2012 :  04:19:38  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Nilus Reynard

I had to go with other & that other is Anne McCaffrey.


Two of my close friends have been bugging me to read her books. But having heard that her books are usually about dragons, no thanks.



Her dragons are utterly unlike any other fantasy dragons. They fly and breathe fire, and they are intelligent, but other than that, they're not much more than exotic mounts. They were, in fact, bred to replace one-man aircraft that were wearing out.

Dragons are prominent in the series, but they're not really characters, and the series is much more about their riders and the other people of Pern.

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2012 :  04:32:04  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Like the Valheru's mounts?

Still, the various blurbs and reviews I read failed to endear those books to me...Not to mention those two close friends often happen to like the books that I read and (vehemently) dislike (The Purifying Fire by Laura Resnick, among many others).

Every beginning has an end.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29643 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2012 :  04:55:05  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Like the Valheru's mounts?



Slightly more presence than that, but the series focuses far more on the humans than the dragons.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3008 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2012 :  14:43:17  Show Profile  Visit Artemas Entreri's Homepage Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Like the Valheru's mounts?




I would love to see Feist write an "ancient" Midkemia series about the Valheru and that time period.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Check out my eBay store for great Realms/Dragonlance/Ravenloft/Dark Sun/etc series! http://stores.ebay.com/Remembered-Realms-and-Hobbies

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13111 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2012 :  14:55:57  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How about a category instead of a specific individual?

Anyone who got famous on a reality show and later wrote a book.

@Dennis - I avoided the entire Dragonlance thing - never read a single book and only owned 2 RPG products - for the same reasons you give. Yet, I loved the Pern novels - give them a shot; Wooly nailed it (the dragons are just backdrop to the stories).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 26 Apr 2012 14:58:37
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3008 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2012 :  14:58:42  Show Profile  Visit Artemas Entreri's Homepage Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

How about a category instead of a specific individual?

Anyone who got famous on a reality show and later wrote a book.



I didn't realize the people on reality shows could read and write.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Check out my eBay store for great Realms/Dragonlance/Ravenloft/Dark Sun/etc series! http://stores.ebay.com/Remembered-Realms-and-Hobbies

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13111 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2012 :  15:19:15  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They can't - they get 'ghost writers'.

Someday in the far future, historians will look back and mark reality Shows as the turning point in the decline of civilization. They are the modern-day equivalent to Colosseum-Games.

(Hey look! A non-D&D micro-rant!)

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe

192 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2012 :  17:45:29  Show Profile Send Thrasymachus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I donít really "despise" any author or their works. But looking at your list of candidates I happily admit that I actually really like R. A. Salvatoreís & Stephen Kingís works quite a bit. Yeah, I know itís heresy to book snobs.


Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon".
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2012 :  01:36:56  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thrasymachus

I donít really "despise" any author or their works.
Agreed.

I can't find ever say there are authors I love to hate. Even if I don't like a particular example of their work, I'll always try to find something in their catalogue of material that I can enjoy. And that's almost always the outcome for authors I'm not particularly fond of.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2012 :  03:38:22  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Like the Valheru's mounts?


I would love to see Feist write an "ancient" Midkemia series about the Valheru and that time period.


Unfortunately, Feist already announced that the next installment to the Chaoswar saga (which will be released next year) is the very last Riftwar novel he'll write.

Every beginning has an end.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2012 :  03:43:24  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Thrasymachus

I donít really "despise" any author or their works.
Agreed.

I can't find ever say there are authors I love to hate. Even if I don't like a particular example of their work, I'll always try to find something in their catalogue of material that I can enjoy. And that's almost always the outcome for authors I'm not particularly fond of.


Oh, I tried. But 'overall impact' is what matters most.

Try to imagine yourself the judge in American Idol. The contestant exhibits confidence and really looks good (star-quality, if you like), but barely hits the notes...

One bad quality can destroy the entire performance.

The same goes with writing. One aspect can ruin your reading experience.

Every beginning has an end.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31683 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2012 :  04:20:17  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't often judge authors simply on the basis of one aspect of their writing. I really need to expose myself to their entire catalogue of storytelling and other associated material -- or as close to everything they've published so far -- before I can convince myself whether or not I've enjoyed a particular author's style.

Take Mel Odom, for example. I'm not particularly fond of his BATTLETECH novels, but at the same time, I've found myself being unable to put down his Realms novels. So if I left my reading experience of Odom's work only on the basis of what I'd read with his BATTLETECH fiction, then I probably wouldn't have bothered with his Realms tales. And that would have been unfortunate, considering how much I've enjoyed them.

So, like I said above, I need to read almost everything from a particular author before I can ultimately decide whether I wish to continue with their works.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3008 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2012 :  14:43:02  Show Profile  Visit Artemas Entreri's Homepage Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Like the Valheru's mounts?


I would love to see Feist write an "ancient" Midkemia series about the Valheru and that time period.


Unfortunately, Feist already announced that the next installment to the Chaoswar saga (which will be released next year) is the very last Riftwar novel he'll write.



Does he have plans to begin an entirely new series, or just enjoy retirement? My bet is that he will be back one day to write more books for Midkemia.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Check out my eBay store for great Realms/Dragonlance/Ravenloft/Dark Sun/etc series! http://stores.ebay.com/Remembered-Realms-and-Hobbies

Be my friend on Goodreads.com: http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/6751111-brian
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BioZach
Acolyte

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2012 :  01:26:18  Show Profile Send BioZach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I honestly have to punch in Mrs. Rowling as my vote. Though I like the concept of Harry Potter, her writing style has always bored me, and considering the fact she feels the need to pad out half of her longer books with uninteresting filler, she's just an author that I could never read.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2012 :  01:30:43  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Like the Valheru's mounts?


I would love to see Feist write an "ancient" Midkemia series about the Valheru and that time period.


Unfortunately, Feist already announced that the next installment to the Chaoswar saga (which will be released next year) is the very last Riftwar novel he'll write.


Does he have plans to begin an entirely new series, or just enjoy retirement? My bet is that he will be back one day to write more books for Midkemia.


People change their minds. Who knows, with great demands from his loyal and dedicated fans, he'd eventually give in and write one more trilogy, at the very least...

Every beginning has an end.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 30 Apr 2012 :  01:32:07  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BioZach

I honestly have to punch in Mrs. Rowling as my vote. Though I like the concept of Harry Potter, her writing style has always bored me, and considering the fact she feels the need to pad out half of her longer books with uninteresting filler, she's just an author that I could never read.


Rolwing does NOT know how to write fillers. She just wants to give as much attention to each of her rather BIG cast.

Every beginning has an end.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3008 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2012 :  14:23:12  Show Profile  Visit Artemas Entreri's Homepage Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

Night of Knives was more of a short story for the fans. Obviously its not something that I would recommend to a newcomer. Start with gardens of the moons but personally i much preferred Deadhouse Gates.



I am almost finished with Gardens of the Moon and am totally hooked on this series now. I am going to immediately start Deadhouse Gates after this one! Also, since i now have a better understanding of the setting I will probably go back and re-read Night of Knives later on, and then continue with the rest of Esslemont's Malazan books.

Have you read the novellas that Erikson wrote too?

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Check out my eBay store for great Realms/Dragonlance/Ravenloft/Dark Sun/etc series! http://stores.ebay.com/Remembered-Realms-and-Hobbies

Be my friend on Goodreads.com: http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/6751111-brian
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13111 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2012 :  16:37:14  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by BioZach

I honestly have to punch in Mrs. Rowling as my vote. Though I like the concept of Harry Potter, her writing style has always bored me, and considering the fact she feels the need to pad out half of her longer books with uninteresting filler, she's just an author that I could never read.


Rolwing does NOT know how to write fillers. She just wants to give as much attention to each of her rather BIG cast.
Exactly.

If you dislike Rowling, you must really hate Ed's style.

Stories that jump right into the action and don't provide much background-detail (depth) are called 'pulp'. Its the format-of-choice for TV and film. They try not to establish any canon because it could just get in the way down the road (in other words, its a LOT easier to write for).

Good to read on a plane or in the bathroom, but it usually doesn't engender much of a fanbase (like everything else, there are, of course, exceptions).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2949 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2012 :  17:06:49  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay


Stories that jump right into the action and don't provide much background-detail (depth) are called 'pulp'. Its the format-of-choice for TV and film. They try not to establish any canon because it could just get in the way down the road (in other words, its a LOT easier to write for).

Good to read on a plane or in the bathroom, but it usually doesn't engender much of a fanbase (like everything else, there are, of course, exceptions).



That would then include more or less all classic American fantasy from Burroughs up until the Tolkien write-alike hysteria. One could instead say that the pulp stories centred on excitement and (in the good ones)imagination as the most important elements with the background only being what is needed for the story being told. Background is not the same as quality and a well chosen sentence can do the same work as a ten page chapter if the writer is good enough. Burroughs, Vance, Moorcock, Howard, Ashton Smith etc are good examples and every one of them can be seen as a pulp writer.

Strangely enough these writers have had a few fans.

No Canon, more stories, more Realms.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13111 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2012 :  17:15:38  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm a big fan of Michael Moorcock, and enjoyed my fair share of Conan stories as well. Thats why I added the part about 'exceptions'. Never a huge fan of Burroughs - he beat the 'lost world' trope to death.

A good author can write in any genre in his own style and still be enjoyable.

Maybe I should have said "more dedicated fan base" (as in, rabid Fanboi/Grognardise).

Without the action/pulp genre, I doubt Gary Gygax would have been inspired to create D&D. The 'fellowship-style' epic quest is more of a campaign-arc kind of thing, and didn't become popular until much later (and most groups still prefer the one-offs for their gaming goodness).


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 03 May 2012 17:16:02
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2949 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2012 :  17:24:53  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I'm a big fan of Michael Moorcock, and enjoyed my fair share of Conan stories as well. Thats why I added the part about 'exceptions'. Never a huge fan of Burroughs - he beat the 'lost world' trope to death.

A good author can write in any genre in his own style and still be enjoyable.

Maybe I should have said "more dedicated fan base" (as in, rabid Fanboi/Grognardise).

Without the action/pulp genre, I doubt Gary Gygax would have been inspired to create D&D. The 'fellowship-style' epic quest is more of a campaign-arc kind of thing, and didn't become popular until much later (and most groups still prefer the one-offs for their gaming goodness).





All good pulp writers have their share of pot-boilers, and Burroughs, being the king in many ways, has the most of any. Stay as far away from the Venus books as possible, I would say that that is the only time Carter managed to surpass the originals.

Its also the fact that pulp has changed. I would say that modern series of never ending fantasy series each volume the size of a brick is as much of a pulp genre as the pre-war short stories or the short 70's swordswinger stories. In all of these a really good writer can make it into something special, whilst others manage to entertain or work in tropes that people enjoy, but without giving any real substance.

And I know I am starting to sound like a pompous arse here.

No Canon, more stories, more Realms.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2012 :  04:11:48  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by BioZach

I honestly have to punch in Mrs. Rowling as my vote. Though I like the concept of Harry Potter, her writing style has always bored me, and considering the fact she feels the need to pad out half of her longer books with uninteresting filler, she's just an author that I could never read.


Rolwing does NOT know how to write fillers. She just wants to give as much attention to each of her rather BIG cast.
Exactly.

If you dislike Rowling, you must really hate Ed's style.

Stories that jump right into the action and don't provide much background-detail (depth) are called 'pulp'. Its the format-of-choice for TV and film. They try not to establish any canon because it could just get in the way down the road (in other words, its a LOT easier to write for).

Good to read on a plane or in the bathroom, but it usually doesn't engender much of a fanbase (like everything else, there are, of course, exceptions).


Hmm. I wouldn't compare Rowling's style with Ed's. And I wouldn't immediately conclude that if one dislikes the former, then he must hate the latter. I, for one, love all of Rowling's novels. Ed is another story. While I openly praise most of his old books, I find the recent ones quite...disappointing, including one non-Realms novel I (mistakenly) read at a whim.

Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - Dennis on 04 May 2012 04:15:20
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