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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29793 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2014 :  16:45:02  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Redwyrm

R.A. Salvatore killed Chewbacca...
Well, to be fair to Salvatore it's worth noting that he didn't decide to kill off Chewbacca. He was hired to write a story where Chewbacca died. That decision was made by the people who hired him.


Thats true, unfortunately thanks to the backlash from the fans we never did get anymore more RAS books in the EU.



I heard, the other day, that the entire EU was going to be scrapped, anyway... So perhaps it is moot.

Not having read a huge amount of EU stuff, it doesn't really bug me -- except I really would have like to have seen the Thrawn stuff on the big screen. Certainly, it would have had to have been with new actors, but the Thrawn books would, I think, make an excellent trilogy of movies.

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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore

India
1591 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2014 :  12:37:26  Show Profile Send Thauranil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Redwyrm

R.A. Salvatore killed Chewbacca...
Well, to be fair to Salvatore it's worth noting that he didn't decide to kill off Chewbacca. He was hired to write a story where Chewbacca died. That decision was made by the people who hired him.


Thats true, unfortunately thanks to the backlash from the fans we never did get anymore more RAS books in the EU.



I heard, the other day, that the entire EU was going to be scrapped, anyway... So perhaps it is moot.

Not having read a huge amount of EU stuff, it doesn't really bug me -- except I really would have like to have seen the Thrawn stuff on the big screen. Certainly, it would have had to have been with new actors, but the Thrawn books would, I think, make an excellent trilogy of movies.


Well as a big fan so the EU I hope that it stays around in some form. After all there is a lot of really good stories in it that deserved to be saved.
As for the Thrawn trilogy , I wholeheartedly agree with you. I would love to see a movie or three based on those books. They have said that Disney plans to launch a Star wars movie every year so we may yet have a chance to see this happen.
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe

USA
323 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2014 :  02:30:09  Show Profile Send Drustan Dwnhaedan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Thauranil

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Redwyrm

R.A. Salvatore killed Chewbacca...
Well, to be fair to Salvatore it's worth noting that he didn't decide to kill off Chewbacca. He was hired to write a story where Chewbacca died. That decision was made by the people who hired him.


Thats true, unfortunately thanks to the backlash from the fans we never did get anymore more RAS books in the EU.



I heard, the other day, that the entire EU was going to be scrapped, anyway... So perhaps it is moot.

Not having read a huge amount of EU stuff, it doesn't really bug me -- except I really would have like to have seen the Thrawn stuff on the big screen. Certainly, it would have had to have been with new actors, but the Thrawn books would, I think, make an excellent trilogy of movies.


Well as a big fan so the EU I hope that it stays around in some form. After all there is a lot of really good stories in it that deserved to be saved.
As for the Thrawn trilogy , I wholeheartedly agree with you. I would love to see a movie or three based on those books. They have said that Disney plans to launch a Star wars movie every year so we may yet have a chance to see this happen.



I used to be a big fan of EU, but halfway through The Legacy of the Force series, I just lost interest in EU. However, I will admit that I'd like to see the Thrawn trilogy made into movies, as well as the Dark Empire comics.
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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2014 :  08:19:16  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really like the early novels (until the whole genocide of the universe thing started), but I am glad they decided to not go with that for future movies. In some ways its more interesting than the movies, but it is to light on classic space opera and adventure serials to really be the basis for Star Wars movies in my book. Then again, I am probably the only person who liked Attach of the Clones, so what do I know.

No Canon, more stories, more Realms.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29793 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2014 :  14:14:38  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens

I really like the early novels (until the whole genocide of the universe thing started), but I am glad they decided to not go with that for future movies. In some ways its more interesting than the movies, but it is to light on classic space opera and adventure serials to really be the basis for Star Wars movies in my book. Then again, I am probably the only person who liked Attach of the Clones, so what do I know.



I didn't read that far into the EU, but that was one thing I liked about the Thrawn books: by having this insanely powerful potential enemy lurking beyond known space, it gave Palpatine more motivation for his actions. The whole gig of "I'm evil, and I'm going to take over everything because I can!" is okay and all, but it's been done. But putting that enemy out there, and having Palpatine aware of them, turns it into "I will protect this land thru any means available, even if it means killing some of my own people to protect the rest." It also gave Thrawn a very good motivation for his actions.

And what little I do know about the EU shows that Palpy was on the right track: a very strong military, with a single strong leader, would have been much better able to cope with the Yucky Vong invasion.

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Jorkens
Great Reader

Norway
2950 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2014 :  16:07:22  Show Profile Send Jorkens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens

I really like the early novels (until the whole genocide of the universe thing started), but I am glad they decided to not go with that for future movies. In some ways its more interesting than the movies, but it is to light on classic space opera and adventure serials to really be the basis for Star Wars movies in my book. Then again, I am probably the only person who liked Attach of the Clones, so what do I know.



I didn't read that far into the EU, but that was one thing I liked about the Thrawn books: by having this insanely powerful potential enemy lurking beyond known space, it gave Palpatine more motivation for his actions. The whole gig of "I'm evil, and I'm going to take over everything because I can!" is okay and all, but it's been done. But putting that enemy out there, and having Palpatine aware of them, turns it into "I will protect this land thru any means available, even if it means killing some of my own people to protect the rest." It also gave Thrawn a very good motivation for his actions.

And what little I do know about the EU shows that Palpy was on the right track: a very strong military, with a single strong leader, would have been much better able to cope with the Yucky Vong invasion.



I don't know if I would say on the right track (but as I said I stopped reading sometime around 2000), but I agree that the political part of the series and the powerplay that goes on in the EU at all time is great. Its just that it makes Star Wars grey (which works great for the books), but Space opera and old-fashioned pulp is more of an unthinking (at times idiotic) black and white that to me is the centre of Star Wars.

No Canon, more stories, more Realms.
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe

Greece
555 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2014 :  15:37:38  Show Profile  Visit BARDOBARBAROS's Homepage Send BARDOBARBAROS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
George R R Martin ...He tires me

BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!


"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2)
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Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
533 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2014 :  19:01:32  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus

Drizzt is another example of a tired creation. We have seen him grow stale because bob has explored every part of Drizzts life and mind. I love Drizzt, Bobs books were some of my first Realms reads and it actually pains me to see Drizzt reduced to the monotony that he has become.
I'm still amazed that Cadderly was killed off. One of the biggest (and dumbest) losses to the Realms novel line.



I agree. Cadderly was a spectacular character, maybe even more interesting than Drizzt, in the end. Crystal Shard hooked me in to the Realms in the beginning also.

RAS is a great author. Drizzt and the Companions ended up taking on a life of their own, and I'm sure we can agree that a character's depth can only go so far until the reader feels like the author is repeating themes over and over, such as Drizzt's various moral dilemmas.

The characters we all REALLY want more stories on are sadly mostly left out except for a couple of books, those characters been Athrogate, Artemis, and Jarlaxle.

Many of his characters are troupes, though they are all well written, but those three are unique and very compelling characters on their own.

Mr. Greenwood has written some fantastic books, but his writing style is very much an acquired taste, however I'm a firm believer that he is one of the few authors that can actually make you FELL as if you're IN the Realms. His novels ooze with flavor and details, even if the plots sometimes get really hard to follow, and his wordy style can annoy some. After reading the Elminster series, I've come to enjoy his style, if somewhat predicable.
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Entromancer
Senior Scribe

USA
388 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2014 :  04:58:37  Show Profile Send Entromancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Goodkind's stance that he doesn't write fantasy is amusing. Equally amusing are fantasy readers that feel personally slighted by Goodkind's stance.

Can anyone explain just what makes Martin's novels "dark and twisted?" They really seem tame.

"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul

"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul

Edited by - Entromancer on 16 Sep 2014 05:00:10
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BenN
Learned Scribe

Japan
335 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2014 :  05:34:39  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
Can anyone explain just what makes Martin's novels "dark and twisted?" They really seem tame.


Martin is pretty ruthless in suddenly killing-off main characters that readers sympathize with, and who have been hitherto built-up as main, ongoing characters in the storyline (e.g. Red Wedding killfest).

Also, once you're dead in Martin's world, you stay dead (or go undead.....)

So it would be like Drizzt & the CotH getting bumped-off, not coming back, and getting replaced by Dahlia & the Nasties. Maybe Drizzt would come back as a zombie though.....
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29793 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2014 :  06:02:24  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BenN

quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
Can anyone explain just what makes Martin's novels "dark and twisted?" They really seem tame.


Martin is pretty ruthless in suddenly killing-off main characters that readers sympathize with, and who have been hitherto built-up as main, ongoing characters in the storyline (e.g. Red Wedding killfest).

Also, once you're dead in Martin's world, you stay dead (or go undead.....)

So it would be like Drizzt & the CotH getting bumped-off, not coming back, and getting replaced by Dahlia & the Nasties. Maybe Drizzt would come back as a zombie though.....



And it's not just killing them off -- he often kills them in cruel ways, and many of them don't even come close to deserving what happens to them.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Entromancer
Senior Scribe

USA
388 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2014 :  08:05:58  Show Profile Send Entromancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah well, Jaime, Stannis and Melisandre are still breathing, so I haven't thrown his books in an emotional outburst yet! :P

"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul

"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3020 Posts

Posted - 03 Mar 2015 :  21:05:08  Show Profile  Visit Artemas Entreri's Homepage Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I LOVE that Martin isn't afraid to kill "good guys." It's realistic. How many times have you been reading a fantasy book where the main character faces almost certain death but comes through simply because he's the main character? Boring.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Check out my eBay store for great Realms/Dragonlance/Ravenloft/Dark Sun/etc series! http://stores.ebay.com/Remembered-Realms-and-Hobbies

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Edited by - Artemas Entreri on 03 Mar 2015 21:06:13
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1009 Posts

Posted - 03 Mar 2015 :  23:44:51  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
None of the above
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rangerstranger
Seeker

USA
30 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2015 :  04:04:22  Show Profile Send rangerstranger a Private Message  Reply with Quote
H.P. Lovercraft
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3020 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2015 :  15:36:03  Show Profile  Visit Artemas Entreri's Homepage Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rangerstranger

H.P. Lovercraft



Hmm, haven't tried him yet.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Check out my eBay store for great Realms/Dragonlance/Ravenloft/Dark Sun/etc series! http://stores.ebay.com/Remembered-Realms-and-Hobbies

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VikingLegion
Learned Scribe

USA
244 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2015 :  19:54:11  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rangerstranger

H.P. Lovercraft



Can't tell if serious or April Fools joke. Lovecraft is one of my favorites, but even I'll admit his style isn't for everyone. His writing was out-of-date even in his own time (1920s/30s I think is when he did the bulk of his writing), as he used a kind of purposeful archaism.

Then again, I really dig Arthur E. Howard's old Conan stories, so maybe I'm just born in the wrong time period.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3020 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2015 :  20:03:47  Show Profile  Visit Artemas Entreri's Homepage Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion

quote:
Originally posted by rangerstranger

H.P. Lovercraft



Can't tell if serious or April Fools joke.



You should never be surprised to learn that something you love is hated by someone else.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Check out my eBay store for great Realms/Dragonlance/Ravenloft/Dark Sun/etc series! http://stores.ebay.com/Remembered-Realms-and-Hobbies

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29793 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2015 :  20:08:42  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion

quote:
Originally posted by rangerstranger

H.P. Lovercraft



Can't tell if serious or April Fools joke. Lovecraft is one of my favorites, but even I'll admit his style isn't for everyone. His writing was out-of-date even in his own time (1920s/30s I think is when he did the bulk of his writing), as he used a kind of purposeful archaism.

Then again, I really dig Arthur E. Howard's old Conan stories, so maybe I'm just born in the wrong time period.



My guess is that it's a typo, perhaps an errant autocorrect.

I've read some Lovecraft. Most of it doesn't work for me... I don't dislike it, I just don't see the big deal about it.

Some of the stories have been creepy... It makes me wonder if the stories had a greater impact in their era, and if the modern era has desensitized us, to some degree, or perhaps changed our perspectives on some things.

Not really looking for a debate on that; this really isn't the place for it. Just kind of a personal pondering on the author's popularity and my own thoughts on his material.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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mastermustard
Seeker

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2015 :  01:15:20  Show Profile Send mastermustard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
RAS is a pretty decent/great author, in my opinion. If you can manage to write 20+ books focused on a single character and still keep readers flocking to you in droves, you're doing something right. -and I couldn't bring myself to hate the writing of anyone who has contributed to the Realms so profusely.


Stephen King however is fairly overrated.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29793 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2015 :  05:50:54  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mastermustard

Stephen King however is fairly overrated.



He's had some good stuff, and he's had some not-so-good stuff. I still really enjoy 'Salem's Lot, It, The Tommyknockers, and The Eyes of the Dragon.

Though I will admit that some of those books had unnecessary elements... Particularly It, which had gratuitous sex, profanity, and the run-on sentence from Hell. I've no objections to sex and profanity in stories, so long as they are appropriate to and help the story. In It, this was not always the case.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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rangerstranger
Seeker

USA
30 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2015 :  18:33:46  Show Profile Send rangerstranger a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion

quote:
Originally posted by rangerstranger

H.P. Lovercraft



Can't tell if serious or April Fools joke. Lovecraft is one of my favorites, but even I'll admit his style isn't for everyone. His writing was out-of-date even in his own time (1920s/30s I think is when he did the bulk of his writing), as he used a kind of purposeful archaism.

Then again, I really dig Arthur E. Howard's old Conan stories, so maybe I'm just born in the wrong time period.



Oh I was serious about H.P. Lovecraft. If I wanted to make a april fools joke I would have said L. Ron Hubbard.

Also please forgive my earlier type that Wooly pointed out.

I just never saw the big deal about the guy. Many of his stories were very much the same. Same plot points, same characters with different names. And then the Cthulhu Mythos, its a role playing game and somehow making it to the cover of a D&D book. I just don't understand how his stories have gone so far when they weren't really that good... at least in my opinion.

I think you mean Robert E. Howard when speaking of Conan. I have to agree, the Conan stories are quite good.
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Entromancer
Senior Scribe

USA
388 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2015 :  19:08:37  Show Profile Send Entromancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As far as killing characters in undignified fashion goes...Toll the Hounds.

I know GRRM gets a lot of word of mouth for being particularly ruthless, but I think Reaper'S Gale, Toll the Hounds, Dust of Dreams and The Crippled God have their share of scenes and developments that are more horrid than the Red Wedding. I responded pretty strongly to the Snake in Dust of Dreams, and the Forkrul Assail in TCG. Then Beak in Reaper's Gale and a few things in Toll the Hounds: Stony and Harlo, Challice D'Arle and Cutter, Rake and Dancer...the Bonehunters themselves.

"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul

"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul
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Marc
Senior Scribe

618 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2015 :  21:04:28  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hated Coltaine's and Trull's deaths

.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3020 Posts

Posted - 07 Apr 2015 :  14:53:29  Show Profile  Visit Artemas Entreri's Homepage Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The fact that alot of these dead characters return sort of ruined the effect for me.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Check out my eBay store for great Realms/Dragonlance/Ravenloft/Dark Sun/etc series! http://stores.ebay.com/Remembered-Realms-and-Hobbies

Be my friend on Goodreads.com: http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/6751111-brian
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