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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 17:43:32
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In my Hulburg campaign, Hulburg was converted from a city into ruins by the Zhentarim in 1347. For the most part the city became infested with various forms of undead and remained so into 1351.
The new lord of Hulburg negotiated a truce with Aesperus which has had two impacts of major consequence:
1) All undead under Aesperus' control have left the area. In such a way, I would expect no more than maybe one major undead to dwell anywhere within or beneath the city.
2) Since a vast sum of the undead were skeletons literally comingled and stacked into columns and walls beneath the city, their removal led to a collapse of roughly 30% of the city, mostly near the docks, that has essentially given Hulburg the deep-water bay it has in 4E (without the changeland arches).
While I do not intend to fill the city to the brim with monsters, I would like a little bit of the void to be filled and the process of completely claiming the city to be at least to require an effort. There is still a Priest of Myrkul hiding in the city that Aesperus also got them to agree to evict or execute.
The PCs are roughly 10th level. While I prefer not to level-cater encounters and instead leave them more centered on what is actually plausible, I also don't just want orcs moving in.
So, what sort of creatures will give a northern-moonsea feel and also, represent:
1) Creatures that could have already been dwelling in the city despite the undead
2) Creatures that may move in quickly after seeing the undead vacate the city
Let me know what you guys can think up!
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 18:50:33
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| Didn't the drow cause the collapse of the other northern Moonsea city ruin? I can't remember the city name atm, but I think they still have at least a nominal presence in those ruins. In which case, it would make sense for them to send a couple expeditions to the newly-vacant ruins to see what they can scavenge. I doubt they'd stay very long, but they could serve as a more roving, random encounter, or running gag. Small, powerful bands looking to loot, not settle. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 18:54:50
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| Sullaspryn. Okay, drow encounter for sure. I should set it up with relatively obvious looters and several hidden drow to help reinforce the "there's twice as many as you can see" concept. Since the group is also familiar with a drow PC in the last campaign (of Elistrae), the idea that drow are wretched and evil could use reinforcing as well. |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 19:32:24
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| With that many bones laying all over the city, I would imagine that the city has a fairly large pack of wolves, worgs, winter wolves, and other sorts of canine monsters.. They probably are in competing packs, each with it's own established territory. So, as the players move throughout the city, they will notice an area with worgs, then suddenly an area where worgs and winter wolves are fighting, the an area of winter wolves. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 20:08:22
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| Or even spotting a pack battle between worgs and winter wolves, only to be caught unaware by a pack of dires? |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 20:47:52
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| Dragon. Just a little one. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 23:29:33
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| Agreed. Actually, a few fairly young dragons could be in the ruins much like the wolves, each staking out its own territory and looking to gather loot. White dragons are obvious, but you could throw in some weirder ones like a fang dragon as well. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Nilus Reynard
Learned Scribe
Canada
137 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2011 : 05:06:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Dragon. Just a little one.
To add to this.
You could add a fledgling Cult of the Dragon operation to the ruins, they tend to set up shop in areas like this. |
Nilus Reynard
Doom Master of Beshaba, Hand of Despair.
P24 Hm CN
(2nd Edition AD&D) |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2011 : 14:04:29
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| Northern Moonsea has ogres. Perhaps led by a death giant. |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2011 : 19:23:19
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| My other thought would be Frost Giants. Just a small family band, moving through the ruins hunting dragons and searching for treasure. Along with the giants are their pack animals, a wooly mamoth and a modest pack of dire (or dread, if you use those) wolly aurochs. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2011 : 21:38:10
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So let's see...
We have white dragons trying to find new lairs.
We have front giants hunting the dragons.
We have ogres doing their own thing.
We have wolves eating the corpses of all the above, and fighting for territory
We have drow, trying to avoid all the others.
Sounds like a fun place for a group of suicidal lunatics. Ah, I mean adventurers. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2011 : 22:09:16
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Toss in a beholder or two, as well. It could have been Zhent by the Zhents, or a rogue from the ones that work with the Zhents.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2011 : 22:40:53
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Remorhaz in the wastes north of the city. It could have come down from the Galenas' Peaks.
Ogre tribes from Thar - they had a pretty powerful kingdom in the area some time ago.
Duergar in the hills as well. Bad dwarves make for interesting opponents.
You could even connect the intelligent groups together with the drow, in a campaign-arc. Gnolls are also present in the northern Moonsea (they may have had their own nation here at some point, long, LONG ago).
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 06 Oct 2011 22:42:45 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 03:19:47
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| Kobolds! Ye can never have too many kobolds. Five dozen, three hundred, forty thousand? It's all the same, larger kobold populations just require more dice rolling to remove. Those opportunistic little buggers will happily "invade" undefended ruins in no time at all. They're also conveniently associated with some flavours of dragon, just for variety. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 18:23:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Kobolds!...Those opportunistic little buggers will happily "invade" undefended ruins in no time at all.
With drow, frost giants, dragons and the rest, this is hardly an "undefended" ruin
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
They're also conveniently associated with some flavours of dragon, just for variety.
OK. Given that, I'll admit that kobolds are a distinct possibility. They'll be scared as snotlings at an Ork bar-be-que, but they could reasonably be present in these ruins.
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"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
Edited by - Halidan on 07 Oct 2011 18:25:00 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 23:04:18
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| Given everything else the ruins would be throwing at the PCs, they might enjoy the occasional breather of bashing kobolds. The could even serve as a kind of comic relief. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 03:48:27
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| Since there were skeletons/corpses around previously, what about scavenger creatures like carrion crawlers or slimes? |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 05:46:39
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Ye'd need to provide some explanation for why all the gear and treasure accumulated by previous inhabitants/monsters is no longer present. Kobolds are great for distributing or losing wealth, while dragons are great for concentrating it into one big pile. Mindless undead wouldn't be aware of loot at all, while liches would likely cull away every single piece of magic they see (most especially those items which could be used to preserve or destroy them).
I suppose there's always the possibility that your PCs are not the first adventurers to delve into (and opportunistically plunder) these ruins. If such were the case then they'd likely find nothing of value ... until they encounter the treasure-laden corpses (or drinking tales) of those who went before them ... even so, they might still find plentiful pickings when exploring sections of the ruins which have thus far remained intact and undisturbed by adventure. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2011 : 22:53:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
Since there were skeletons/corpses around previously, what about scavenger creatures like carrion crawlers or slimes?
If I were designing the ruins, I would think about include:- Rats, including Dire Rats and Ossips
- Carrion Crawlers (only in areas with fresh kills or living beings)
- Monsteerous Centipeds
- Beetles, including Bombardier, Fire and Stag
- Ankheg (especially on the outskirts of the ruins
- Arrowhawks (but only if a gate to the plane of Elemental Air esisted in/prior to the ruins)
- Darkmantles (uderground only)
- Violet Fungus (and possibly Shriekers)
- Ghouls and Ghasts
- Gricks (again underground only)
- Black Puddings, Grey Ooze, and Ochre Jellies
- Otyugh
- Rust Monsters
- Shambling Mounds (again at the outskirts of the ruins)
- Centipede, Locust, Rat and Raven swarms
I probably wouldn't include all of these, but even just seeing the tracks or leavings of some of thesee scavengers would add to the realizm of the ruins. And Rust Monsters would help explain where all of the cities gear has gone. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 02:39:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
Violet Fungus (and possibly Shriekers)
I'm currently striking a blank and empty void when trying to ascertain were these both were detailed.
Source?
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 02:58:56
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Well is in 3rd and 4th it appears, offered is 2nd.
quote:
Violet Fungus
Violet fungus growths resemble shriekers, and are usually (75%) encountered with them. The latter are immune to the touch of violet fungi, and the two types of creatures complement each other's existence.
Combat: Violet fungi favor rotted animal matter to grow upon. Each fungus has one to four branches with which it flails out if any animal comes within range (see following). The excretion from these branches rots flesh in one round unless a successful saving throw vs. poison is rolled or a cure disease spell is used. The branch length of this fungi depends upon the fungi's size. Violet fungi range from four to seven feet tall, the smallest having one-foot-long branches, the five-foot-tall fungi having two-foot-long branches, and so on. Any sized growth can have up to four branches.
Shrieker
Shriekers are normally quiet, mindless fungi that are ambulatory. They are dangerous to dungeon explorers because of the hellish racket they make.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 10 Oct 2011 03:00:21 |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2011 : 15:43:24
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm currently striking a blank and empty void when trying to ascertain were these both were detailed.
Source?
Sage - Frankly the list was edition neutral, and mostly off the top of my head. However since Kentinal gave the 2E decription, I'll just add that in 3.5 the stats are in the Monster Manual on pg 113. For Pathfinder stats, they are in the Beastiary on pg 274, and as I don't play 4E, I can't help - perhaps someone else with the right books can. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2011 : 06:17:11
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| Side note: Who is Aesperus? |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2011 : 17:56:43
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Wow, escape triggers "reset fields."
Aesperus was King of Thentur in the 1000s. Thentur ranged from, at least, Thentia in the west, to, at least, Hulburg in the east, and, at least, the Wailing Tower in the north. Likely it included a good chunk of southeastern Thar and maybe as far east as Sulaspryn.
He displaced local lords installing his men as rulers. This is how Ivar Hulmaster gained the position of Harmach of Hulburg. Hulmaster's son, Rivan, was an apprentice to Aesperus, but later rose up and overthrew Aesperus, which disintegrated the nation.
As such, Aesperus dwells in the Wailing Tower well into the 1400s, but has had dealings with the Hulmasters throughout their trials and tribulations. A false rumor circulated in the 1350s that Aesperus was actually a defender of Hulburg who had fallen into a well and become a lich. This goes to show the speed at which factual information disappeared on the topic.
He controls, more or less, all undead in the area.
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 21:15:20
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So Halig, the frost giant jarl has taken the remains of his tribe down from the mountains. It's winter, so it's comfortable enough to leave the icy slopes. The tribe was decimated by a white dragon, but fended off, the dragon is greatly injured and has limped off down the mountain and taken refuge in the ruins.
Since both these creatures are typically evil how should I play this out? I'd like this to be a time based situation, where if the PCs completely avoid town for a couple of days, the giants do track down the dragon and possibly kill it.
If the PCs side with the dragon and help it escape, perhaps it would give it some of its hoard?
If the PCs side with the giants, what would they gain?
If the PCs delay and the dragon is killed, what would happen to the horde?
I've pondered the idea that if they aid the dragon and it takes them to its hoard, while it is weakened, that perhaps a rhemoraz has moved in to the cavern, making another obstacle and forcing the dragon to fork over further loot.
Perhaps if the dragon is killed, that it's horde would be captured by another dragon of the Galena mountains. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2011 : 21:33:12
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Both sides aren't just evil, they're also chaotic. I wouldn't expect either side to live up to any bargains.
If the PC's aid the dragon, the dragon will probably try to get away with a "Thank you for your aid, you may go now." It most definitely won't offer any part of its hoard, unless the PC's specifically demand some of it as payment beforehand (and even then it's likely to balk unless it's very obvious it's otherwise going to die). And after the battle, if at all possible, the dragon will immediately fly off, leaving the PC's with nothing. The only way the PC's would get any part of the hoard would be to essentially take the dragon hostage and force it to lead them back to its lair. And likely then kill it, since the dragon will fight to protect the hoard (or live to take revenge).
Something similar will happen with the giants. They'll likely let the PC's go, unless they've been badly mauled, in which case the giants will probably try to jump them. At best, the PC's might come away with a minor good mark in the giants' books. But as you say, the giants would likely kill the dragon on their own anyway, so it wouldn't be a major favor. More like "we'll let you through our territory once, or let you come and talk to us once." The PC's might also be able to negotiate for some or all of the dragon's corpse.
If the dragon is killed, the hoard is lost. The only way to find it would be to interrogate the dragon's spirit (which may be why the PC's want the corpse, aside from all the other things they can harvest from it). Otherwise, that treasure is just gone, and will eventually be found by some lucky explorer/monster. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2011 : 18:28:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Kobolds! Ye can never have too many kobolds. Five dozen, three hundred, forty thousand? It's all the same, larger kobold populations just require more dice rolling to remove. Those opportunistic little buggers will happily "invade" undefended ruins in no time at all. They're also conveniently associated with some flavours of dragon, just for variety.
This group ran through Ruins of Adventure, where there is the option of a side adventure with 10k kobolds. They let a competing adventuring group take that one up. That group returned a month later, to much praise, which annoyed the group, because it was "just some kobolds." |
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Halidan
Senior Scribe
USA
470 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2011 : 01:31:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Both sides aren't just evil, they're also chaotic. I wouldn't expect either side to live up to any bargains.
I've got to disagree with you Hondath. Giants in the Forgotten Realms have a concept of Maat and Maug, that in the words of the Giantcraft sourcebook, "stands outside of the 'absolute' alignment scale of the AD&D game (Giantcraft was a 1E suppliment).
Maat means those things that Giants are ordained to do. Maug is it's oppposite. Giantcraft goes so far as to say that, "...giants fear and abhor maug just as humans, elves, and dwarves fear and abhor evil". The 3x3 alignment grid doesn't really apply to the giants of the Realms.
If there is someone in Rhewtani's group that knows enough about giants and their belief system, that character could strike a bargin and make sure it stuck - even with the chaotic evil frost giants.
For frost giants, the second most Maat activity (behind only honoring Annam, All-Father of the true giants) is bravery. A fighter could appeal to the giant's sense of bravery and easily get the tribe's help with the dragon. Or, conversly (and somewhat more dangerous) that same fighter could call the giant's bravery into question, because they've allowed the dragon to encroach on their tribes encampment.
The next step would be to establish a trust or pact with the frost giants to kill the dragon and split it's hoard and/or body. The pact would have to be one of equal risk - the giants aren't foolish.
The CE frost giants would keep the pact, because breaking a pact/trust is medium level Maug behavior. Likewise, the frost giants wouldn't hold back or run away as long as the PC's are holding up their end of the bargain, as cowardice is serious Maug behavior.
So, in the Realms it is possible for someone who knows enough about giants to bargin with even the CE frost and hill giants. They would just have to understand maat and maug behavbiors and appeal to the giants accordingly. |
"Over the Mountains
Of the Moon
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,"
The shade replied,
"If you seek for Eldorado!"
Edgar Allen Poe - 1849 |
Edited by - Halidan on 26 Oct 2011 01:59:40 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2011 : 04:05:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Halidan
I've got to disagree with you Hondath. Giants in the Forgotten Realms have a concept of Maat and Maug, that in the words of the Giantcraft sourcebook, "stands outside of the 'absolute' alignment scale of the AD&D game (Giantcraft was a 1E suppliment).
Correction: It was a 2E supplement. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rhewtani
Senior Scribe
USA
508 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2011 : 16:37:24
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I'm going to name their mastodon Rupert, he will be quite wooly.
More to come as I prep for tomorrow. |
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Populating more recent ruins
