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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 03 Nov 2011 :  14:14:37  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

I still love them. Apart from Feist's brilliant storytelling, it's nice to still see those characters who have been around for more than two decades [Earth Time].

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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 03 Nov 2011 :  14:17:23  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


I still love them. Apart from Feist's brilliant storytelling, it's nice to still see those characters who have been around for more than two decades [Earth Time].



Feist if one of my favs too, just wish he would start changeing up his plotline a little. Poor Midkemia has been invaded too many times I would love to see a non-world threatening trilogy or two.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Edited by - Artemas Entreri on 03 Nov 2011 14:17:41
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 03 Nov 2011 :  14:22:29  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

You wouldn't see that soon. His latest trilogy encompasses an inter-universe war. And it is the last series of the Riftwar Cycle. If he still wishes to write something after that, I think it would be set in a different setting.

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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 03 Nov 2011 :  14:29:17  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


You wouldn't see that soon. His latest trilogy encompasses an inter-universe war. And it is the last series of the Riftwar Cycle. If he still wishes to write something after that, I think it would be set in a different setting.



I'd like to see him write a nice FAT book too

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 03 Nov 2011 :  14:47:31  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

The Empire Trilogy and Rage of a Demon King are fat.

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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 03 Nov 2011 :  14:53:30  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


The Empire Trilogy and Rage of a Demon King are fat.



Still need to read the Empire Trilogy and i loved Rage. All of his latest books see to be right around 400 pages though.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 03 Nov 2011 :  14:55:18  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also: for me FAT would be 600+ pages, 400-600 would just be chunky, and <400 would be skinny

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 04 Nov 2011 :  06:02:05  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Don't forget the font. Weeks's novels, for example, have 600+ pages, but the font is rather big that it could easily shrink to 300+ pages only had the font been smaller.

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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 04 Nov 2011 :  12:38:59  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Don't forget the font. Weeks's novels, for example, have 600+ pages, but the font is rather big that it could easily shrink to 300+ pages only had the font been smaller.



Shrinking down to a smaller font might shave 100 pages off or so. Do you think the author has any say in the font size used in their books? Probably all publisher at that point.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 04 Nov 2011 :  15:37:01  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

I don't think so. Some of them don't even get to know which parts are deleted by their editor until they see the actual book.

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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 04 Nov 2011 :  16:27:01  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


I don't think so. Some of them don't even get to know which parts are deleted by their editor until they see the actual book.



I'm not a writer, but that would probably drive me crazy.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 04 Nov 2011 :  16:28:11  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would love to read an un-edited draft of an author's first crack at a story and see if i enjoyed it, assuming that it is an author i enjoy anyways ;)

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 04 Nov 2011 :  16:35:35  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

To do so, you have to be the editor yourself.

I browsed some 'unproofed' books in several Booksale* branches; the ones with an explicit note on top of the cover: NOT FOR SALE. Though strangely they were for sale. Just browsed, didn't buy them. Not to my liking. And the authors are not that famous, IMHO.


*Booksale is one of our local second-hand chain bookstores.

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Edited by - Dennis on 04 Nov 2011 16:38:22
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1577 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2011 :  01:21:14  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tolkien is the mythmaker, the undisputed, undefeated king.

Anyone aspiring to writing works of fantasy that will endure for multiple lifetimes will always be compared to him, measured by the yardstick he created.

It doesn't matter if you personally like someone more. Any reasonably honest attempt at objective assesment has to acknowledge the titanic influence of Tolkien.

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 13 Nov 2011 :  16:38:31  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

It's rather difficult, if not impossible, to make an objective assessment on a subject that is almost entirely subjective.

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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1577 Posts

Posted - 13 Nov 2011 :  18:03:22  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


It's rather difficult, if not impossible, to make an objective assessment on a subject that is almost entirely subjective.


'Who do I like best?' is a subjective question.

'Which fantasy author has had the greatest impact on the field as a whole?' is not.

Granted, it may be difficult to measure, but no matter what yardstick we use, Tolkien stands at the top.

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 13 Nov 2011 :  18:38:29  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Even the determining of which yardstick to utilize is subjective.

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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1577 Posts

Posted - 13 Nov 2011 :  18:46:35  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Even the determining of which yardstick to utilize is subjective.


To be sure. But to assert that objectivity is thereby impossible is to maintain that history, for example, can never be studied academically.

Opinions may be subjective, but that doesn't stop people from supporting them with facts, which then renders them statements of objective fact.

The field of fantasy was transformed by the efforts of several authors, of which the most important was J.R.R. Tolkien. The others on the list, quite aside from how well one likes their work, do not have that distinction.

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Icelander
Master of Realmslore

1577 Posts

Posted - 13 Nov 2011 :  18:48:49  Show Profile  Visit Icelander's Homepage Send Icelander a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As it happens, I like G.R.R. Martin just as much or more than Tolkien, but he is simply too recent to judge the historical impact of his work.

I also think that Leiber, Howard and Burroughs deserve to be on that list.

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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2011 :  15:40:05  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

As it happens, I like G.R.R. Martin just as much or more than Tolkien, but he is simply too recent to judge the historical impact of his work.

I also think that Leiber, Howard and Burroughs deserve to be on that list.



Currently I am reading my first Leiber book, loving it so far.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2011 :  16:00:54  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

As it happens, I like G.R.R. Martin just as much or more than Tolkien, but he is simply too recent to judge the historical impact of his work.

Perhaps he's getting there. The New York Times has already called him "The American Tolkien."

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31406 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2011 :  17:30:19  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

As it happens, I like G.R.R. Martin just as much or more than Tolkien, but he is simply too recent to judge the historical impact of his work.

Perhaps he's getting there. The New York Times has already called him "The American Tolkien."



Meh. A lot of writers get a lot of fancy descriptions from a lot of sources. If G.R.R. Martin is called this by a lot of people 50 years from now, I'll buy it. For now, a single newspaper's praise isn't all that. Lots of authors have been favorably compared to Tolkien. Time will tell which of them can hold that comparison.

Nothing against Martin; I'm enjoying Game of Thrones right now. I'm just saying one journalistic blurb does not make a convincing case.

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2011 :  17:46:34  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

As it happens, I like G.R.R. Martin just as much or more than Tolkien, but he is simply too recent to judge the historical impact of his work.

Perhaps he's getting there. The New York Times has already called him "The American Tolkien."



Meh. A lot of writers get a lot of fancy descriptions from a lot of sources. If G.R.R. Martin is called this by a lot of people 50 years from now, I'll buy it. For now, a single newspaper's praise isn't all that. Lots of authors have been favorably compared to Tolkien. Time will tell which of them can hold that comparison.

Nothing against Martin; I'm enjoying Game of Thrones right now. I'm just saying one journalistic blurb does not make a convincing case.

If it comes from NY Times, it bears some credibility. Though not absolute, of course ---no newspaper has that kind of power.

I cannot call myself a Martin's fan. I am not exactly into low-magic fantasy. But partiality aside, I would still call him one of the best fantasists writing today. His world-building is impressive; his characters aren't easy to fade from the reader's memory; and his understanding of what a mess politics is, clearly shows in every novel.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31691 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2011 :  23:31:41  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

quote:
Originally posted by Icelander

As it happens, I like G.R.R. Martin just as much or more than Tolkien, but he is simply too recent to judge the historical impact of his work.

Perhaps he's getting there. The New York Times has already called him "The American Tolkien."



Meh. A lot of writers get a lot of fancy descriptions from a lot of sources. If G.R.R. Martin is called this by a lot of people 50 years from now, I'll buy it.
I don't buy it, personally. And I think that's because it's only partly what has constituted the legacy of Tolkien.

Tolkien presented a world of myth and legend with such extensive background -- something which most among the industry of fiction had never seen or read. Practically every fiction writer from that time on has been borrowing from that legacy -- in either lesser or greater degrees.

Tolkien largely gave us all something new from myths of the old world. It will be very hard for another "Tolkien" to rise elsewhere as I see it, because most of what has come since that time, still utilises a great deal of what Tolkien brought to the genre.

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ErskineF
Learned Scribe

USA
326 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2011 :  16:50:46  Show Profile  Visit ErskineF's Homepage Send ErskineF a Private Message  Reply with Quote
After scanning the first page, I see there's no point in reading the next seven. Arguments about "who is the best" are really arguments about "who ought to be your favorite," and that's a silly argument to have.

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