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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Oct 2011 : 16:53:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
I can't believe that Terry Brooks isn't on here. I don't care much for his latest works, but the original Shannara books are hard to beat IMHO.
I dunno... The Sword of Shannara was a revamped Lord of the Rings...
You're not the only one who thinks so. When asked about it, Brooks said something along this line, "Are there any fantasy novels that don't follow Tolkien?"
I agree that Sword of Shannara was not a totally original plot, but MOST epic fantasy stories like that are going to run along the same lines of LOTR. Good vs Evil, the unsuspecting hero, might and magic....it's all been done before. This difference is all about how the author gives the story their own flavor. That and creating a memorable setting of course....which Shannara is for me.
There's a difference between running along the same lines and being almost identical. I'm fine with similarities, but there's just too many of them in Sword.
I would rather have that comment directed to Robert Jordan's The Eye of the World.
I have yet to start the Wheel of Time series. I know I know, shame on me. I like to be able to read a series straight through without waiting a year or more in between books. George R R Martin is killing me with the 3-4 years in between his books. I love that series though  |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2011 : 16:57:43
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Then you do have a lot of catching up to do. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2011 : 17:02:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Then you do have a lot of catching up to do.
Oh i know. I wish i was one of those speed readers. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2011 : 17:05:40
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quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
From this list i picked Tolkien...But WHERE IS ROBERT E. HOWARD?????
Robert Howard is for me the best storyteller of fantasy ....He had an overwhelming talent on writing!!!
But and Tolkien was a creative mind with Middle Earth...
I can't put on the list everything that everyone wants. There's a limit, remember? As I suggested earlier, if your pick is not on the list, you may choose "Other" and I will tally its individual votes [per author] when it reaches, say, 10 or 15. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2011 : 17:07:08
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Hi, all.
Dennis, THE NIGHT ANGEL has been published in hardcover at least twice (one of them an SF Book club edition, so the quality of the paper isn't thrilling). so track it down.
For those who enjoy Farland, that's really Dave Wolverton, so there are a lot more older books out there, under his own name, for enthusiasts to track down.
And Jordan's "Eye" might well be derivative, but the first Shannara book triggered a lawsuit that the UK publisher responded to by cancelling the British edition on the grounds that they couldn't hope to successfully defend themselves. The Hildebrandt illo of the assembled company of heroes was even a direct borrow from their own earlier Tolkien Calendar illo of the Fellowship - - swapped right for left, and with some tinkering of hair and beard colors.
That said, I like Terry, and the later Shannara books become much more the writer's own voice and invention. He grew along with his created world.
Yet if we're polling for "Greatest," he and Farland aren't even in the running. "Greatest" would mean standout in some regard, and they don't. Sorry.
And I agree: Brent Weeks is a good writer, but it's far too early to be even considerinf him for "Greatest" anything, especially "of All Time." Try "promising newcomer" instead.
love,
THO |
Edited by - The Hooded One on 03 Oct 2011 17:08:49 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2011 : 17:07:48
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quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Then you do have a lot of catching up to do.
Oh i know. I wish i was one of those speed readers.
Want to improve your reading speed? Drink five cups of coffee. It works for me. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2011 : 17:15:08
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Thanks for that THO. But where to? Definitely not in our local bookstores. Even Fully Booked which brags of its wide selection, both in titles and format, doesn't have it. Amazaon only has the pb and kindle formats.
Edit: Oh! eBay has it. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 03 Oct 2011 17:19:44 |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2011 : 17:22:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Then you do have a lot of catching up to do.
Oh i know. I wish i was one of those speed readers.
Want to improve your reading speed? Drink five cups of coffee. It works for me.
Yeah but then i would be wasting valuable reading time by going to the bathroom every 10 minutes.
Just to clarify: i am not a slow reader, just wish i could read super fast since there are 100's of books i have yet to have time for. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2011 : 17:25:38
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Hi, all.
Dennis, THE NIGHT ANGEL has been published in hardcover at least twice (one of them an SF Book club edition, so the quality of the paper isn't thrilling). so track it down.
For those who enjoy Farland, that's really Dave Wolverton, so there are a lot more older books out there, under his own name, for enthusiasts to track down.
And Jordan's "Eye" might well be derivative, but the first Shannara book triggered a lawsuit that the UK publisher responded to by cancelling the British edition on the grounds that they couldn't hope to successfully defend themselves. The Hildebrandt illo of the assembled company of heroes was even a direct borrow from their own earlier Tolkien Calendar illo of the Fellowship - - swapped right for left, and with some tinkering of hair and beard colors.
That said, I like Terry, and the later Shannara books become much more the writer's own voice and invention. He grew along with his created world.
Yet if we're polling for "Greatest," he and Farland aren't even in the running. "Greatest" would mean standout in some regard, and they don't. Sorry.
And I agree: Brent Weeks is a good writer, but it's far too early to be even considerinf him for "Greatest" anything, especially "of All Time." Try "promising newcomer" instead.
love,
THO
I read to small author bio on the back of one of Brent Weeks' books (im fairly sure it was Weeks) where he said something to the effect of: I do not have a ponytail, i do not own 5 black cats, and i don't practice swordplay in my free time...i just enjoy writing about fantasy. I have liked him ever since. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2011 : 17:26:56
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quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
Just to clarify: i am not a slow reader, just wish i could read super fast since there are 100's of books i have yet to have time for.
Oh, I know. Someone who reads really "fat" books can't be a slow reader. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2011 : 17:29:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478
Just to clarify: i am not a slow reader, just wish i could read super fast since there are 100's of books i have yet to have time for.
Oh, I know. Someone who reads really "fat" books can't be a slow reader.
I do love a good fat fantasy book. Though i did just purchase the complete FR Double Diamond Triangle Saga off of Ebay, so i guess i will read the skinny books as well. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
Edited by - Artemas Entreri on 03 Oct 2011 17:30:55 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2011 : 20:24:37
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quote:
entreri3478
Stephen King as a fantasy author? barf
I generally agree wholeheartedly, I refuse to stomach such pulp. However, I actually liked Eyes of the Dragon. Odd that his one and only book of pure fantasy should have been so much better, IMO, than the usual logorrheic drivel he puts to page. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2011 : 20:40:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
entreri3478
Stephen King as a fantasy author? barf
I generally agree wholeheartedly, I refuse to stomach such pulp. However, I actually liked Eyes of the Dragon. Odd that his one and only book of pure fantasy should have been so much better, IMO, than the usual logorrheic drivel he puts to page.
As much as I do not groove with his writing style and have a hard time reading his books, I find most movies based on his books/Short stories to be very enjoyable.
Shawshank Redemption, It, The Langoliers, 1408, The Shining, Firestarter, The Running man, Pet Cemetery, The Green Mile, The Lawnmower man, Children of the Corn, The Mist, Apt Pupil, The Stand.......... |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2011 : 20:41:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
entreri3478
Stephen King as a fantasy author? barf
I generally agree wholeheartedly, I refuse to stomach such pulp. However, I actually liked Eyes of the Dragon. Odd that his one and only book of pure fantasy should have been so much better, IMO, than the usual logorrheic drivel he puts to page.
Jocularity! 'Tis oft better to be unaffected than grandiloquent, aye?  |
Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2011 : 23:08:29
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of the above list of films, I enjoyed several (but not all), and two were amazing: Shawshank Redemption and Green Mile. I had no idea Stephen King had anything to do with those. You learn something new every day.
Funny how they both have to do with prison. Maybe he can create a new genre (although I think porn already has a sub-genre in that vein LOL)
Movies never do the novels justice - Jaws was a mediocre movie (although it scared the heck out of my, being as I live in the vicinity of where it supposedly takes place), but the novel was very good (another case of me being stuck someplace with nothing to read - in this case in Jersey for the summer and naught but my Aunt's book collection). I don't enjoy horror for horror's sake, and much of modern horror is just that; gruesome special effects with very little story.
Alfred Hitchcock is rolling over in his grave.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2011 : 23:39:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
There are so many sub-genres of fantasy I don't think an answer to this question is possible. Aren't things like Indiana Jones, Wild, Wild West, and The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen all fantasy? Isn't Star Wars?
Even the DaVinci Code could be classified as fantasy, because anything fictional (even if based upon half-truths) is fantasy, technically.
Fantasy in the largest sense is a very wide class of which realist fiction is necessarily a subset. Secondary-world heroic fantasy -- the sense in which Dennis originally used 'fantasists' -- is a genre, taxonomically equivalent to crime, horror, science fiction, literary fiction, etc.
Ideas of genre can be useful, and they can mislead: for instance, writing in a genre (or a medium) only bounds what you can do in a few out of myriad possible directions. Yet still often the LF people can't see the walls of their own house, and talk of 'transcending' other genres as if such a thing was necessary. |
Edited by - Faraer on 03 Oct 2011 23:50:45 |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2011 : 23:46:44
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Voted Tokien.
I prefer Michael Moorcock and R.E.H., but Tolkien is, to me, the unchallenged Moses-figure of the fantasy genre as we know it. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 09:45:22
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I’m inclined to agree with MT. Most movie adaptations rarely give the novels justice. Though if the authors are given hand in the production, say, they themselves wrote the script, the results are spectacular. Off the top of my head, I can say the ones that gave justice to the novels were Stardust, Goblet of Fire, Prisoner of Azkaban, and others of different genres: I Am Number Four, Something Borrowed, Someone Like You, and Dream Boy. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 04 Oct 2011 09:46:03 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 09:52:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
Fantasy in the largest sense is a very wide class of which realist fiction is necessarily a subset. Secondary-world heroic fantasy -- the sense in which Dennis originally used 'fantasists' -- is a genre, taxonomically equivalent to crime, horror, science fiction, literary fiction, etc.
Ideas of genre can be useful, and they can mislead: for instance, writing in a genre (or a medium) only bounds what you can do in a few out of myriad possible directions. Yet still often the LF people can't see the walls of their own house, and talk of 'transcending' other genres as if such a thing was necessary.
That is why it is really difficult to categorize a book. Some authors use so many elements of various genres. But I guess, when you read a novel, you will know. Instinct. Plain and simple. I know it’s rather too easy an explanation and begs more argument more than it solves the problem. However, let’s remember that reading is a very personal activity. Who better knows what it is he is reading than the reader himself? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2011 : 13:37:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
of the above list of films, I enjoyed several (but not all), and two were amazing: Shawshank Redemption and Green Mile. I had no idea Stephen King had anything to do with those. You learn something new every day.
Funny how they both have to do with prison. Maybe he can create a new genre (although I think porn already has a sub-genre in that vein LOL)
Movies never do the novels justice - Jaws was a mediocre movie (although it scared the heck out of my, being as I live in the vicinity of where it supposedly takes place), but the novel was very good (another case of me being stuck someplace with nothing to read - in this case in Jersey for the summer and naught but my Aunt's book collection). I don't enjoy horror for horror's sake, and much of modern horror is just that; gruesome special effects with very little story.
Alfred Hitchcock is rolling over in his grave.
I believe the full title of the novella was Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption. If you have seen the movie then this makes complete sense. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 00:13:58
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| Wow. Hard to pin down just ONE. But, I'll add my two Zhents anyway. I'm voting other, because you also failed to include such long-time fantasy stapels as Piers Anthony and Robert Asperin. (Both rather jokular writers, I know, but they practically INVENTED homorous fantasy- and both are exceptionally good at world-building and plotting: see Xanth, the Mode worlds, Phaze/Proton, Klah/Deva/Perv, and others....) as well as old favorites and my personal intros to fantasy (along with the above-named) of C.S. Lewis and Frank Baum. and Howard and Let's not forget Shakespeare himself- Midsummer Night's Dream, Tempest, and Macbeth, anyone? And Aesop, Homer, Virgil, et al..... So many.... |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 00:57:49
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| I disagree with a lot of what Moorcock wrote in Wizardry and Wild Romance, but he was correct in reacting to the burgeoning fantasy market far too much of which was made up of people who read The Lord of the Rings and missed the point. The lasting value of Tolkien's creation stems in large part from his Catholicism, his philology and his war experiences. Without these, his painstaking worldbuilding would have been just a diverting hobby. (Likewise, my love of Realmslore is underpinned by Ed Greenwood's wry, gentle humour and kindness and humanistic life-philosophy and my least favourite Realms work is what parts furthest from that.) Considering Tolkien's peers from the last century, I think of radically transformative imaginations like Yeats, Borges, Burroughs, Wolfe, and Stafford. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 14:39:51
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quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
From this list i picked Tolkien...But WHERE IS ROBERT E. HOWARD?????
Robert Howard is for me the best storyteller of fantasy ....He had an overwhelming talent on writing!!!
But and Tolkien was a creative mind with Middle Earth...
I have been meaning to try some Robert Howard for awhile now. Are the Conan books ordered or stand-alone? Could i just pick up one and read through without missing any back story? |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 16:35:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
[...] Let's not forget Shakespeare himself- Midsummer Night's Dream, Tempest, and Macbeth, anyone? [...]
Calling Shakepeare a "fantasist" would be far too limiting. He's the God of Literature. He invented, or rather explored the full potentials of almost all literary genres. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 17:32:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
[...] Let's not forget Shakespeare himself- Midsummer Night's Dream, Tempest, and Macbeth, anyone? [...]
Calling Shakepeare a "fantasist" would be far too limiting. He's the God of Literature. He invented, or rather explored the full potentials of almost all literary genres.
Or Francis Bacon did. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 17:32:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
[...] Let's not forget Shakespeare himself- Midsummer Night's Dream, Tempest, and Macbeth, anyone? [...]
Calling Shakepeare a "fantasist" would be far too limiting. He's the God of Literature. He invented, or rather explored the full potentials of almost all literary genres.
**nearly chokes on coffee**
Shakespeare owes a lot to Virgil, Aristophanes, Ovid, Horace, Sophocles, Euripedes... |
Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 17:51:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
[...] Let's not forget Shakespeare himself- Midsummer Night's Dream, Tempest, and Macbeth, anyone? [...]
Calling Shakepeare a "fantasist" would be far too limiting. He's the God of Literature. He invented, or rather explored the full potentials of almost all literary genres.
**nearly chokes on coffee**
Shakespeare owes a lot to Virgil, Aristophanes, Ovid, Horace, Sophocles, Euripedes...
And they owe quite a lot to older myths from the ancient eaasterner culture and from the yet more archaic cultures from their regions.... so we could go like that for ages Maybe a "relatively modern" clarification should be added? |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
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Edited by - Thelonius on 05 Oct 2011 17:53:09 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 18:02:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
**nearly chokes on coffee**
Shakespeare owes a lot to Virgil, Aristophanes, Ovid, Horace, Sophocles, Euripedes...
And they owe quite a lot to older myths from the ancient eaasterner culture and from the yet more archaic cultures from their regions.... so we could go like that for ages Maybe a "relatively modern" clarification should be added?
Well sure, but Shakespeare as the "God of Literature"? Come on. Well respected as a playwright and storyteller, absolutely. But compare him to Marlowe, Kyd, both of whom had strong influences on Shakespeare... heck, what about Chaucer, who is actually considered the Father of English Literature?
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 18:10:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
[...] Let's not forget Shakespeare himself- Midsummer Night's Dream, Tempest, and Macbeth, anyone? [...]
Calling Shakepeare a "fantasist" would be far too limiting. He's the God of Literature. He invented, or rather explored the full potentials of almost all literary genres.
What other areas are covered under this Portfolio? |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2011 : 18:21:19
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| How does Robert Jordan still have zero votes but Weis has 3%? Weird. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Who should wear the Crown?
