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Artemas Entreri
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USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  15:43:58  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Poll Question:
What do you think is the most iconic Dungeons & Dragons monster/race of all time? If your choice is not listed please let us know.

Choices:

Dragon
Beholder
Displacer Beast
Drow Elf
Lich
Mind Flayer
Giant (any)
Demon/Devil (any)
Naga
Mythical (centaur, minotaur, etc)
Orc
Other (please explain)

(Anonymous Vote)

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Edited by - Artemas Entreri on 11 Mar 2015 16:43:53

Dennis
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Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  16:01:13  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Lich, of course.

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Thelonius
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Spain
726 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  16:13:23  Show Profile  Click to see Thelonius's MSN Messenger address Send Thelonius a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've gone for beholders, since Eye of the Beholder, I have, somehow seen them like the D&D trademark creature. Also they were difficult as hell to kill in Baldur's Gate, and the battles against them are the most I remember the most

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Seethyr
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Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  16:24:41  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I also picked beholder because as far as I know it's the only true D&D creation on the list. Dragons may be my favorite and they are included in the title of the game for that matter, but they most certainly didn't start here.

For the same reason I wouldve picked illithids had they been there.

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Artemas Entreri
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USA
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Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  16:26:48  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr

I also picked beholder because as far as I know it's the only true D&D creation on the list. Dragons may be my favorite and they are included in the title of the game for that matter, but they most certainly didn't start here.

For the same reason I wouldve picked illithids had they been there.



Totally forgot about Illithids

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  16:53:14  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dragons. It is, after all, Dungeons & Dragons. Hard to get more iconic than having the game named after you.

I've also pointed out before that out of all of the many, many critters that have been created for D&D, the most common types are dragons and undead. I've seen so many new/redone types of draconic species that it's not funny, and someone is constantly dreaming up yet another type of undead. It's so ridiculous that there's prolly some undead critter described that forms when someone dies with the hiccups while simultaneously being shot by a kobold firing squad and buried under an avalanche of banana pudding.

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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  16:59:06  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Dragons. It is, after all, Dungeons & Dragons. Hard to get more iconic than having the game named after you.

I've also pointed out before that out of all of the many, many critters that have been created for D&D, the most common types are dragons and undead. I've seen so many new/redone types of draconic species that it's not funny, and someone is constantly dreaming up yet another type of undead. It's so ridiculous that there's prolly some undead critter described that forms when someone dies with the hiccups while simultaneously being shot by a kobold firing squad and buried under an avalanche of banana pudding.



Duh, it's called the Necrobanakobhiccuptovenger.

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Markustay
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Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  17:04:02  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Beholder for me as well. Every Fantasy setting has it's Dragons, and even Liches (even if they aren't called that) are old hat now; you see either one and many things come to mind, but when you see a Beholder you think of D&D, and nothing else. The rest (except for maybe the Displacer Beast) are also pretty generic.

Which makes me now re-evaluate my negative opinion towards aberrations.

Good thread... it made me think.


*Edited for bad-wording.

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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Sep 2011 19:25:53
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  17:38:58  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would have to go with the beholder as well. I can still picture it clearly on the cover of one of the first Monster Compendium's that i purchased. I think it was Easley who drew that one too :)

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Kajehase
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Sweden
2104 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  17:40:43  Show Profile Send Kajehase a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Like Wooly said, it's called Dungeons & Dragons.

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rhune
Acolyte

11 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  17:50:01  Show Profile Send rhune a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Beholder here as well. Did Easley do the cover of the 2nd Edition Monster's Manual?
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  17:51:55  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase

Like Wooly said, it's called Dungeons & Dragons.



This can easily be changed to Dungeons & Rust Monsters

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  17:52:54  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rhune

Beholder here as well. Did Easley do the cover of the 2nd Edition Monster's Manual?



Yes i am pretty sure he did the cover for the large hardback Monstrous Manual.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Diffan
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Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  17:54:14  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I went with the Beholder as well. It literally is licensed by Dungeons and Dragons (ie. no one can have one unless it's a D&D product). Also, I've never seen one outside of a D&D reference or context, so that's pretty Iconic to me.

Dragons are a very close second because one often things about the game in reference to the mythical creature. But it's too broad and generalized to be linked directly to Dungeons and Dragons.

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Dennis
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9933 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  18:14:01  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

I went with the Beholder as well. It literally is licensed by Dungeons and Dragons (ie. no one can have one unless it's a D&D product). Also, I've never seen one outside of a D&D reference or context, so that's pretty Iconic to me.


You won't see illithids outside D&D, either.

Beholders are Medusa-experiments gone awry.

I thought the question was favorite D&D monster. Can I change my vote and give the illithids and the beholders a tie?

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31146 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  18:59:55  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

I went with the Beholder as well. It literally is licensed by Dungeons and Dragons (ie. no one can have one unless it's a D&D product). Also, I've never seen one outside of a D&D reference or context, so that's pretty Iconic to me.


There's a very beholder-ish critter that pops up briefly in Big Trouble in Little China.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  19:43:50  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought of that as well, and have used it in another argument on another site (on the Paizo site, trying to prove how other companies CAN use non-OGL monsters because they can prove TSR did NOT protect their IPs in the past, and they are therefor now in the public domain).

Besides, you can only copyright the name of a creature, not the idea of it. That's why companies can re-write other companies rule-books and get away with it (game systems cannot be copyrighted - there are even unlicensed 4e products that take this approach).

quote:
Originally posted by Dennis

You won't see illithids outside D&D, either.
So you've never seen Cthulhu, Davey Jones from the PotC movie, or most closely, the Ood from Doctor Who?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 23 Sep 2011 19:48:22
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  20:40:12  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

I went with the Beholder as well. It literally is licensed by Dungeons and Dragons (ie. no one can have one unless it's a D&D product). Also, I've never seen one outside of a D&D reference or context, so that's pretty Iconic to me.


There's a very beholder-ish critter that pops up briefly in Big Trouble in Little China.



EXCELLENT reference

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Ayrik
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Canada
6607 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  20:43:57  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A tricky issue, Markus. The original artwork for mind flayers was inspired the cover art from a Brian Lumley novel about the Cthulhu Mythos; one might present convincing arguments that D&D instead violated Lovecraft's iconic IP.

I think the safest route is to follow the dictates outlined in the SRD and OGL, although WotC doesn't apply them to 4E they haven't technically expired and still define what was and what wasn't Wizbro D&D IP. Companies can and do skirt the legal line, I think many do capitalize on D&D's legally iconic content, such trespass is probably tolerated as too insignificant for Wizbro to bother prosecuting (law ain't cheap) ... but just because such companies exist and openly sell such products (and Wizbro has thus far done little to punish offenders) doesn't mean that they are legal by any means. Building business on shaky legal foundations is criminal by definition. Declaration of license or patent or ownership are only the beginning; they are utterly meaningless unless you are willing (and able) to bring violators into courtrooms to enforce these legal dictates; no police or detectives will search for such violations unless you pay them, no crime is recognized until the victim steps forward with accusations.

I'm not a lawyer, just a fan. But it seems to me that companies who skim Wizbro's revenue will be (and have been) punished once they take too much. Fan content (that is, noncommercial) is generally immune from legal attack, but at the same time it's also entirely open to Wizbro ownership: ie, they could in theory just rewrite the book you've written, stamp their legal brands onto it, then issue a legal imperative for you to cease "pirating" copies of their product. Incidentally, I'm not trying to vilify Wizbro here; but in the end they are a business and not a charity, they must do what they must do to survive; we are actually lucky that WotC purchased TSR ... D&D could've just as easily disappeared into oblivion.

I note that the Star Trek franchise is owned by Paramount and CBS (it's complicated) ... but Paramount has actually "licensed" a great deal of leeway with private individuals and groups who wish to develop fan content. They still require that you approach them legally, of course, but they are nonetheless surprisingly accomodating of (noncommercial) fan-made fiction and films based on their franchise holdings. I wonder if such a thing is possible with Wizbro; we might often assume the evil faceless megacorporate will automatically deploy lawyers who scream "NO!" when such may in actuality not always be the case.

[/Ayrik]

Edited by - Ayrik on 23 Sep 2011 21:14:25
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Brimstone
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Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  21:46:40  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Goblins.

Players have to start somewhere...





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Lady Shadowflame
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115 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  21:47:17  Show Profile Send Lady Shadowflame a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have to say beholder. They're just that distinctive.
To me, dragons don't count, because they were around long before D&D, as were a fair number of the others, though sometimes under different names.

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sfdragon
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Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  21:54:16  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
dragon.

its in the name...

otherwise its a toss up between the beholders and the dragons.


though in some cases the powers of cthulu's dnd minions

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


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Kilvan
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Canada
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Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  22:29:17  Show Profile Send Kilvan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Must vote for dragons for this one, not only because it is in the name, but because it is what most new players want to fight at some point. Nobody outside of d&d players/novel readers know what a beholder or an illithid is. Shouldn't that be taken into account to determine which monster is the most iconic?

Saying that beholders are the icon of D&D, when most people know what D&D is but almost nobody knows what a beholder is... doesn't make much sense to me.

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
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Australia
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Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  23:09:22  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Dragons. It is, after all, Dungeons & Dragons. Hard to get more iconic than having the game named after you.
I'm inclined to agree.

Though, I'd say both orcs and giants run a close second, as they're among the most other iconic D&D races most often depicted "fighting the heroic warrior type."

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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  23:19:17  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan

Must vote for dragons for this one, not only because it is in the name, but because it is what most new players want to fight at some point. Nobody outside of d&d players/novel readers know what a beholder or an illithid is. Shouldn't that be taken into account to determine which monster is the most iconic?

Saying that beholders are the icon of D&D, when most people know what D&D is but almost nobody knows what a beholder is... doesn't make much sense to me.



What is so special about a dragon? You seem them in 99% of fantasy literature. Beholders and Mind Flayers are found in only one place.

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Kilvan
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Canada
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Posted - 23 Sep 2011 :  23:30:26  Show Profile Send Kilvan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478

What is so special about a dragon? You seem them in 99% of fantasy literature. Beholders and Mind Flayers are found in only one place.



I don't agree with this argument. There are hundreds of creature unique to d&d that few cares about, and we don't call them iconic. I think a beholder or a mind flayer is much more cool and original than a flaming red dragon, but more iconic? Nope, not at all.

Oblivion loomed on every side, the offspring lived, basking in the realization that each moment could be the last moment.
--This was the beauty of chaos
--This was the beauty of Lolth
--This was the doom for all, but one

Quote from "Extinction"

Edited by - Kilvan on 24 Sep 2011 14:46:55
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