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Therise
Master of Realmslore

1265 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2011 :  20:19:07  Show Profile Send Therise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Azuth


I don't want to sound like a hater, but I was pretty disappointed with the Maztica trilogy. I think Doug Cook wrote it, but I'm also pretty sure he was told "we need to tell the story of the Spanish taking over Mexico" and that the characters kind of lacked the depth of other setting additions. I wasn't sad to see it disappear in 4E, so there's a plus for 4E! Lolth versus Helm was also kind of weird...but that's a whole different issue. Anyway, the Maztican gods were never present in any of the Avatar Series (even the later ones long after the campaign had been published) so I feel that the Maztica series is kind of an outlier in this set.

Azuth




When something is completely replaced, I like to ask "is the replacement better? Does it add more, and does it improve over the thing that's now gone?"

In the case of Maztica, I think the new replacement is actually worse than what we had. Not that I loved Maztica or anything, it wasn't something I ever really used. But they did have a semi-interesting thing going on with the Aztec-like native people there. And way, way better than dragonborn. Heh!


4E Realms was awful, but it's water under the Boareskyr Bridge. Let's make 5E Realms truly shine!
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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2011 :  23:37:55  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
When something is completely replaced, I like to ask "is the replacement better? Does it add more, and does it improve over the thing that's now gone?"

In the case of Maztica, I think the new replacement is actually worse than what we had. Not that I loved Maztica or anything, it wasn't something I ever really used. But they did have a semi-interesting thing going on with the Aztec-like native people there. And way, way better than dragonborn. Heh!



In that, we are entirely in agreement!

Azuth


Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.
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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2011 :  23:39:18  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Douglas Niles, not Doug Cook




I stand corrected, and thank you, Wooly.

Azuth



Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31146 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2011 :  05:17:12  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I had no interest in Maztica, myself... But I objected to its replacement simply on the grounds that it was an established part of the Realms, and as such, shouldn't be conveniently written out of canon.

I've never read the Maztica trilogy, because I didn't really care for the Moonshae trilogy -- it was one of those ones I couldn't wait to finish, simply so I could move on to something else. On the other hand, I rather enjoyed the Druidhome trilogy -- though not enough to put it on a list of faves.

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Therise
Master of Realmslore

1265 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2011 :  05:25:50  Show Profile Send Therise a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When I first read about Abeir and the dragonborn, I just kept thinking "this is really embarrassing, and dopey. Scaly but mammals? Come on, they can't be serious! How can they think this is good?"

And several years later, I still think it was a really awful replacement, just way too cartoony for the Realms. What I've been told is that "this is no longer the 'Age of Humanity' in the Realms" and I think that's unfortunately true. The influx of tieflings, dragonborn, earthmotes, it all just pulls away from realism and pushes toward a very different kind of fantasy. Not to my tastes at all.

I'd much rather have Maztica and pseudo-Aztecs farming their corn and coffee.

In fact, I think I'll add the Maztica trilogy to my reading list. It's fortunate, really, that there's still a TON of old Realms things that I haven't yet had the pleasure of reading or experiencing, and I've been around a long time.



4E Realms was awful, but it's water under the Boareskyr Bridge. Let's make 5E Realms truly shine!

Edited by - Therise on 15 Oct 2011 05:27:35
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Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe

USA
228 Posts

Posted - 22 Oct 2011 :  14:09:04  Show Profile Send Xnella Moonblade-Thann a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I choose the Harper's Series, mainly because Elfshadow and Elfsong were the ones that drew me in (and I had only picked them because of the 'elf' in the title when they were at the second-hand store). That was what got me introduced to the Realms, and especially to Waterdeep and the interesting politics & intrigues there. Plus, who doesn't like a half-elf who, although shunned by the race that raised her, has a bad-ass hereditary elven magic sword?

"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." - traditional elven farewell

Please forgive any spelling and grammer errors, as my android touch-screen phone has no spellchecker. If I do make a grammer mistake, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.

Somehow I'm missing my Eberron stuff that the gremlins took when my laptop died over a year ago, but I shall get them buggers yet!
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
909 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  11:31:01  Show Profile Send Matt James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I still mantain today that the Dark Elf Trilogy was amazing. Of the three, however, Homeland was leaps and bounds ahead of the others in my humble opinion. I really like how it set the tone of Drow society in Menzoberranzan and elevated political intrigue.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  13:42:25  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James

I still mantain today that the Dark Elf Trilogy was amazing. Of the three, however, Homeland was leaps and bounds ahead of the others in my humble opinion. I really like how it set the tone of Drow society in Menzoberranzan and elevated political intrigue.



I loved everything about Homeland except the cover art

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Yoss
Learned Scribe

USA
259 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  16:30:28  Show Profile Send Yoss a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since it's gotten cold out, I've noticed that my brain has inextricably linked the dark elf trilogy and the smell of a wood stove (since the furnace was on the fritz while I was reading it, and I spent the better part of a weekend sitting next to the wood stove in the living room doing pretty much nothing other than reading while keeping the fire going). I really enjoyed the trilogy anyway, and it's easily my favorite of the Drizzt stuff, but the whole comforting happiness of associating it with burning logs probably elevates it above the rest of the stuff on the list that I've read (which isn't all of it. yet).
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  16:39:57  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Yoss

Since it's gotten cold out, I've noticed that my brain has inextricably linked the dark elf trilogy and the smell of a wood stove (since the furnace was on the fritz while I was reading it, and I spent the better part of a weekend sitting next to the wood stove in the living room doing pretty much nothing other than reading while keeping the fire going). I really enjoyed the trilogy anyway, and it's easily my favorite of the Drizzt stuff, but the whole comforting happiness of associating it with burning logs probably elevates it above the rest of the stuff on the list that I've read (which isn't all of it. yet).



This is awesome. I always feel that chilly/windy/or snowy weather is always better for reading.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  17:47:52  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Yoss

Since it's gotten cold out, I've noticed that my brain has inextricably linked the dark elf trilogy and the smell of a wood stove (since the furnace was on the fritz while I was reading it, and I spent the better part of a weekend sitting next to the wood stove in the living room doing pretty much nothing other than reading while keeping the fire going). I really enjoyed the trilogy anyway, and it's easily my favorite of the Drizzt stuff, but the whole comforting happiness of associating it with burning logs probably elevates it above the rest of the stuff on the list that I've read (which isn't all of it. yet).




Sounds marvelous, but this reminds me of the Icewind Dale Trilogy, especially the first one. Everything was so innocent back then.

Azuth


Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2011 :  18:13:11  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Azuth

quote:
Originally posted by Yoss

Since it's gotten cold out, I've noticed that my brain has inextricably linked the dark elf trilogy and the smell of a wood stove (since the furnace was on the fritz while I was reading it, and I spent the better part of a weekend sitting next to the wood stove in the living room doing pretty much nothing other than reading while keeping the fire going). I really enjoyed the trilogy anyway, and it's easily my favorite of the Drizzt stuff, but the whole comforting happiness of associating it with burning logs probably elevates it above the rest of the stuff on the list that I've read (which isn't all of it. yet).




Sounds marvelous, but this reminds me of the Icewind Dale Trilogy, especially the first one. Everything was so innocent back then.

Azuth





I can't even think the term Icewind Dale without getting chills

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Yoss
Learned Scribe

USA
259 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2011 :  02:59:56  Show Profile Send Yoss a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by entreri3478

quote:
Originally posted by Yoss

Since it's gotten cold out, I've noticed that my brain has inextricably linked the dark elf trilogy and the smell of a wood stove (since the furnace was on the fritz while I was reading it, and I spent the better part of a weekend sitting next to the wood stove in the living room doing pretty much nothing other than reading while keeping the fire going). I really enjoyed the trilogy anyway, and it's easily my favorite of the Drizzt stuff, but the whole comforting happiness of associating it with burning logs probably elevates it above the rest of the stuff on the list that I've read (which isn't all of it. yet).



This is awesome. I always feel that chilly/windy/or snowy weather is always better for reading.




Indeed (yes, the Blackstaff was keeping me company during our power outage last week).
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2011 :  17:59:56  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

I think The Nobles series has some interesting offerings. I vaguely remember several positive reviews on War in Tethyr, Escape from Undermountain, and The Simbul's Gift.

Every beginning has an end.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31146 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2011 :  18:16:51  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


I think The Nobles series has some interesting offerings. I vaguely remember several positive reviews on War in Tethyr, Escape from Undermountain, and The Simbul's Gift.



I didn't care all that much for Escape From Undermountain, myself. War in Tethyr I started but couldn't finish.

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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2011 :  18:32:02  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Haven't read them myself. But The Simbul's Gift by Lynn Abbey is one I would recommend to those who want to read about Aglarond, Alassra, Thay, and the zulkirs.

Every beginning has an end.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2011 :  20:16:52  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I didn't really care for any of the Nobles Series volumes, King Pinch and Council of Blades were terrible

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2011 :  22:23:15  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis


Haven't read them myself. But The Simbul's Gift by Lynn Abbey is one I would recommend to those who want to read about Aglarond, Alassra, Thay, and the zulkirs.



I've found that, even in the best of hands, that the Seven Sisters just don't come through with the correct…splendor as when Ed writes them. I recall when Alustriel wouldn't originally grant Drizzt passage into Silverymoon, and remember thinking that if Ed had been writing her, she would have found a more eloquent way of handling the situation. I recognize that the Realms (published) were still young, then, and that Bob likely hadn't yet formed a strong relationship with Ed, but with all that power, Alustriel would have found a bettter way.

I thought Elaine Cunningham did a marvelous job of blending Ed and Bob in her Daughter of the Drow trilogy, although that might be due largely to her using certain aspects of Bob & Ed's creations, but not utilizing too many established characters in her books. I digress:

Lynn Abbey wrote a good story, but I maintain that Ed alone has the real gift of writing of any of the Seven Sisters. Take this humble demipower's opinion for what it's worth.

Cheers,

Azuth



Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.
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Dennis
Great Reader

9933 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2011 :  03:46:32  Show Profile Send Dennis a Private Message  Reply with Quote

I don't know, but I've read some of Ed's books where I didn't really like how the Seven Sisters were portrayed, even if they are his own creation. Perhaps I simply dislike the stories themselves that such feeling extended to the said characters. Anyway, I must say some other authors portrayed them worse.

Every beginning has an end.

Edited by - Dennis on 07 Nov 2011 03:47:53
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
810 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2011 :  15:52:41  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love the Simbul, so I was excited to read the Simbul's gift the first time and recently re-read it. While I found Alassra to be handled correctly and the Zulkirs written well...the plot as a whole was very weak. The Simbul wants a child with Elminster so she....tries to steal a horse from a half-elf boy because she's convinced it's a sub-avatar of a long dead diety named Zandilar? Umm....okay...?

I think a well written book about the Simbul defeating a Thayan plot hatched by her Zulkir nemesis and getting help from the Aglarondian half-elves could have been written without such a far fetched and silly plot about horses-- and the horse wasn't even used all that much or done well in the book anyway, which is sort of crazy. The Alassra wants a baby with Elminster subplot was unnecessary.

I think my favorite parts of that book were when Alustriel and the Simbul are discussing parenthood and kingdom running, quite well done. The characterization was pretty good in that book, come to think of it. Just not the plot.

To the original post in this thread, I have to go with The Finder's Stone trilogy now that I've read it. Great mysteries, characters, well connected plot lines and a fairly good romp through Cormyr, Westgate and the Dalelands. It's great how the anti-heroes are all complex (Alias, Finder, Olive) and finally the Harpers are shown to be fallible in their judgement of Finder.

Edited by - Seravin on 07 Nov 2011 15:55:00
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2011 :  17:06:46  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

I love the Simbul, so I was excited to read the Simbul's gift the first time and recently re-read it. While I found Alassra to be handled correctly and the Zulkirs written well...the plot as a whole was very weak. The Simbul wants a child with Elminster so she....tries to steal a horse from a half-elf boy because she's convinced it's a sub-avatar of a long dead diety named Zandilar? Umm....okay...?

I think a well written book about the Simbul defeating a Thayan plot hatched by her Zulkir nemesis and getting help from the Aglarondian half-elves could have been written without such a far fetched and silly plot about horses-- and the horse wasn't even used all that much or done well in the book anyway, which is sort of crazy. The Alassra wants a baby with Elminster subplot was unnecessary.

I think my favorite parts of that book were when Alustriel and the Simbul are discussing parenthood and kingdom running, quite well done. The characterization was pretty good in that book, come to think of it. Just not the plot.

To the original post in this thread, I have to go with The Finder's Stone trilogy now that I've read it. Great mysteries, characters, well connected plot lines and a fairly good romp through Cormyr, Westgate and the Dalelands. It's great how the anti-heroes are all complex (Alias, Finder, Olive) and finally the Harpers are shown to be fallible in their judgement of Finder.



Those darn meddling Harpers!

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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scererar
Master of Realmslore

USA
1615 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2011 :  02:56:59  Show Profile Send scererar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Man, liked em all, but from the choices Finders Stone and then Icewind Dale. Song and swords series from the Harpers was excellent.

"Yap,yap, little dog!" - Riven - page 326 Shadowbred, by Paul Kemp

_________________________

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1602 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2014 :  22:55:52  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Moonshae because it was my first Realms novels. Very well written, IMO, and true to the setting in those days. My only hiccup was one of the books (or maybe it was the trilogy that followed, can't remember now) had trolls regenerating from severed fingers while the host troll still lived.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31146 Posts

Posted - 18 Dec 2014 :  23:19:51  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach

Moonshae because it was my first Realms novels. Very well written, IMO, and true to the setting in those days. My only hiccup was one of the books (or maybe it was the trilogy that followed, can't remember now) had trolls regenerating from severed fingers while the host troll still lived.



There was some inconsistency on that, in early Realmslore. Douglas Niles was not the only person who did that.

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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore

1602 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2014 :  21:27:58  Show Profile Send The Arcanamach a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
There was some inconsistency on that, in early Realmslore. Douglas Niles was not the only person who did that.


Yeah I just remember thinking at the time that if they could generate new trolls in that manner then they would overrun the world.

I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one.
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