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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 11:59:10
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Woke up early, so I thought I'd expand on an idea I've had for a while now. I always liked the island nation of Lantan, and its destruction in the spellplague rubbed me the wrong way. I also love steampunk when it's appropriately done, and I have a fondness for Realmsian gnomes.
So: how to save Lantan? Let's pull an "Empire of Shade" but do it with steampunk. At the time of the spellplague, the gnomes of Lantan were working on at least two really amazing non-magical devices. First, they were developing non-magic portals. They were experimenting with one that led to an empty region of Mulhorand, though it took a great deal of power.
Second, they were making headway toward the creation of non-magic "Mechanical Mythals" (about which we know less). Perhaps they were developing a kind of electricity that could be tapped directly from the air without any wiring.
With these two things in mind, what if our little gnomes were not actually destroyed by tidal deluges but "something happened" such that the spellplague interacted with one or both devices above? What if they were shunted into a kind of pocket-plane dimension, or some kind of "sub-space" phase, and since then they have been happily developing better, cooler, more advanced steampunk technology over the past 100 years?
I could see the mechanical mythal acting as a sort of "canopy protection device" that interacted in unusual ways with the spellplague. Similarly, the mechanical portal could have been affected by the spellplague such that it pulled everything within the range of the mythal into this special "subspace" region. They could be happily working toward a way that would bring them back into "phase" with Lantan.
Gnome powah! 
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 13 Sep 2011 12:01:50
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4426 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 13:05:27
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Like I've mentioned in other threads, I use Lantan like a sort of "new-age" Atlantis or undeer-water city with magi-tech implements. Because a good majority of Lantanese people use technical devices or are artificers themselves, it's easy to make the jump from pure magic to magic-enhanced automations and machines.
Think Exo-Suits with magical properties that allow them to traverse the bottom of the Sword Coast. Small submersibles that can hold 2 or 3 Gnomes for sea exploration. And a heavy emphasis on electrical-based weapons because it works good underwater. Also, I could see them abandoning gunns and other smoke-powder based weapons in favor of weapons that work well underwater. |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 14:32:01
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Another idea would be to have a few earthmotes hovering over Lantan, where the gnomes have managed to build a multi-mote community, with steam 'elevator tubes' between the motes and the surface of Lantan (something similar was introduced in D&D's Hollow World setting).
* One group has built a 'downport' for the elevators, and stationed guards around the facility. This walled area will eventually be the hub of the first surface community. Very likely near the water, where a port facility is also planned.
* Other groups comb through the wreckage on the surface, picking up anything useful, also shooting hostile interlopers and malign wildlife that happens to be there.
* And of course...resistance is futile. 
Edit: Also - weren't most Lantanese humans?
- OMH |
Edited by - Old Man Harpell on 13 Sep 2011 14:33:13 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 15:36:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Edit: Also - weren't most Lantanese humans?
Lantan was mainly human nation, but gnomes had appeared there after TSR decided to afflict Realms gnomes with tinker-gnome influence and Gond appeared as a gnome on Lantan during the Avatar Crisis.
And despite all the gnomish-ness... Lantan still had a notable and significant human presence, who were mostly quite intuitive and capable of innovative technological design on their own as members of Gond's faithful. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 17:22:23
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Ugh, earthmotes... sorry Old Man, I can never use earthmotes. I think they're fatally stupid and need to be purged from 4E. Too much copycatting of Warcraft.
But I love the idea of making it Atlantis-like. Maybe the mechanical mythal is a sort of magnetic dome, protecting their city from water in a similar way that old movie Logan's Run had domes protecting them from nuclear fallout. And miniature steampunk submarines manned by gnomes, that's brilliant!
Initially, I thought about having crack teams of gnomes all ghettoed out in steampunk attire, they'd *crackle* teleport in, use their electric stunners on people, collect loot, and *crackle* teleport back to their city. 
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 17:38:16
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You could possibly run with both, in different directions (quite literally).
As Sage has said, you had two different groups of people living there. One could assume the the Gnomes preferred to live below ground, while the humans lived above (with them mixing freely, of course). This division would have been one merely of habitat-preferences, but after the Dweomercaust (like that? ), this could have possibly been accentuated.
Picture the Gnomes living below the sea, in an Atlantis-like colony (or group of smaller domes connected together), and the humans living above. If you don't like Earthmotes, picture a massive airship armada, with many of the larger vessels being roped together to form a haphazard city. The humans may have even activated a 'doomsday device;' which lifted one or several cities into the air (a'la Netheril, but at this point, is that so different then them colonizing Earthmotes?)
The Gnomes have now created many steampunk devices like Gothic-looking submarines and breathing apparatus, and maybe even experimented on some of their own (some of the next generation may have gills).
The humans would have built wings for themselves, and become like a race of Hawk-men (from DC comics or Flash Gordon - take your pick).
Two different groups of ex-Lantanese, one dwelling below the sea, and the other in the clouds above.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Sep 2011 17:46:58 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2011 : 17:54:40
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Nah, all the humans bit the big one in the Designpocalypse.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 01:04:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Nah, all the humans bit the big one in the Designpocalypse.
Ha! Stubborn woman. You remind me of the missus. That means only that I am used to such things.
In truth, the entire 'earthmote' concept predates World of Raidcraft by many years. Skyrealms of Jorune (by Miles Teves) first introduced the concepts (where do you think Blizzard came up with the name 'Lake Jorune' that sits in Terokkar Forest?). I think one of my first posts here a couple of years back reflected the fact that I had first seen earthmotes as 'skyrealms', long before WoW was even a twinkling in Blizzard's...uh, eye.
If that were not the case, I would agree with you - but Blizzard ripped the idea off long before Wizbro did. Earthmotes are one of the few things about the Shattered Realms that I actually like, and I'll go on record as saying that I think Markustay's idea is actually really good.
I hate the name 'earthmote', but I realize Wizbro couldn't use 'skyrealm' without causing a copyright issue. Anyways - back to the subject in progress.
- OMH |
Edited by - Old Man Harpell on 14 Sep 2011 01:05:27 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 01:35:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Nah, all the humans bit the big one in the Designpocalypse.
Ha! Stubborn woman. You remind me of the missus. That means only that I am used to such things.
In truth, the entire 'earthmote' concept predates World of Raidcraft by many years. Skyrealms of Jorune (by Miles Teves) first introduced the concepts (where do you think Blizzard came up with the name 'Lake Jorune' that sits in Terokkar Forest?). I think one of my first posts here a couple of years back reflected the fact that I had first seen earthmotes as 'skyrealms', long before WoW was even a twinkling in Blizzard's...uh, eye.
If that were not the case, I would agree with you - but Blizzard ripped the idea off long before Wizbro did. Earthmotes are one of the few things about the Shattered Realms that I actually like, and I'll go on record as saying that I think Markustay's idea is actually really good.
I hate the name 'earthmote', but I realize Wizbro couldn't use 'skyrealm' without causing a copyright issue. Anyways - back to the subject in progress.
- OMH
Sure, I'm aware of Jorune. But, earthmotes generally were around at least as early as Roger Dean's doobie-inspired Yes album art in the 70s.
I'm just saying that D&D stole it back from Blizzard, because it was popular in Warcraft's Nagrand region. 'Course Blizzard stole orcs vs humans from D&D, who stole them from Tolkien, who was inspired by...
Anyways... earthmotes are stupid. Because I said so. And I'm always right. ALWAYS.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 02:32:02
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Stubborn, stubborn soul who can't see what awesomeness is earthmotes. Oh, very well...then to recap, here's a quoted alternate beginning:
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If you don't like Earthmotes, picture a massive airship armada, with many of the larger vessels being roped together to form a haphazard city. The humans may have even activated a 'doomsday device;' which lifted one or several cities into the air (a'la Netheril, but at this point, is that so different then them colonizing Earthmotes?)
<snip>
Two different groups of ex-Lantanese, one dwelling below the sea, and the other in the clouds above.
If you are familiar with the game Talislanta (which also has skyships, by the way), one feature is a floating city, called Cabal Magicus over the isle of Phantas, tethered to the isle by a long, near-indestructible cable. The Phantasians have long lost the technology/magic to make more of these sky cities - only this one remains.
To reverse that concept, the Lantanese have developed a techno-magical adaptation of the Netherese flying cities. They had just finished the construction when the Sellplague hit, inadvertently giving it the power it needed to launch.
In the intervening years, they have stabilized its position, keeping it aloft by means of a gigantic technomagical clockwork apparatus. It isn't the size of a real city...it's smaller than, say, Beregost. But it has the means to get everything it requires save raw materials and food. And it is slowly expanding into new 'disks' on long spokes or booms - while they retain the technical know-how, it's simply too expensive and resource-intensive to just build a new section without having some intended purpose.
Two spokes have been built - one for additional housing, and another for the dirty industries that are kept separate - incinerator, iron foundry, and so on, and these took over a decade each to assemble and get operational.
In short, I like Markus's idea of humans above, runts below - I hope this is a better build-up of his foundation? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 04:19:58
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Actually, the "Gond's Way" article from DUNGEON #191 describes the current state of Lantan in the post-Spellplague era, as well as the now itinerant [Realms-wide] and/or archaeological-slant [focused on recovering the lost secrets of Lantan] of the few surviving Lantan-based Gondar.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 04:29:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
One could assume the the Gnomes preferred to live below ground, while the humans lived above (with them mixing freely, of course).
[...]
The Gnomes have now created many steampunk devices like Gothic-looking submarines and breathing apparatus, and maybe even experimented on some of their own (some of the next generation may have gills).
This could work, especially since there are a number of surviving Gondar who are "striving to recover remnants of the lost civilization of Lantan." And the purely inventive spirit of the clergy may well suggest new ideas for these Gondar -- both human and gnome alike -- to delve beneath the waves and explore the submerged ruins of Lantan.
This would undoubtedly be a perfect opportunity for some Gondar to rediscover DaRoni's sketches for the "aquawalker," diving hook," and "underwater boat" [see Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue].
quote:
The humans would have built wings for themselves, and become like a race of Hawk-men (from DC comics or Flash Gordon - take your pick).
Again, DaRoni to the rescue with his plans for the "Heartland Flier." |
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Edited by - The Sage on 14 Sep 2011 04:29:41 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 05:48:15
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Runts?! *ahem*
In the end, the gnomes shall prevail.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 06:10:28
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Yeah...runts. Halfpints, maybe? The orcs have a sport called 'Gnome-Punting'...lots of fun.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Actually, the "Gond's Way" article from DUNGEON #191 describes the current state of Lantan in the post-Spellplague era, as well as the now itinerant [Realms-wide] and/or archaeological-slant [focused on recovering the lost secrets of Lantan] of the few surviving Lantan-based Gondar.
-grumble- And let me guess...DDI. -mutters something exceedingly rude about 'online magazines'- |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 07:35:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
-grumble- And let me guess...DDI.
Yes. And I mis-referenced the article earlier. It's from September 2011's issue of DRAGON [#403] |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 15:21:38
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Therise, where did you find the two projects the Lantanese were working at? I'm intrigued with how you imagine a non magical portal working.
Subspace sounds like a parallel or virtual dimension like Cyberspace. Perhaps the Lantanese are all disembodied programmed souls wondering their selfmade parallel dimension, looking for a way back to their corporeal bodies that lie submerged in the sundered atol of Lantan. |
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Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 16:43:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Therise, where did you find the two projects the Lantanese were working at? I'm intrigued with how you imagine a non magical portal working.
Subspace sounds like a parallel or virtual dimension like Cyberspace. Perhaps the Lantanese are all disembodied programmed souls wondering their selfmade parallel dimension, looking for a way back to their corporeal bodies that lie submerged in the sundered atol of Lantan.
You know, I don't remember where I heard about the mechanical mythal. I'll have to go through my notes.
But the mechanical portal was one of the "Perilous Gateways" portal series that was published on the WotC forgotten realms archives. Still located here: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/pg20030326a
Not sure for how long it'll remain there, since WotC has started to remove (or at least retire) all the old Realms stuff. Many articles from the 2000-01 archives are gone, looking at it now.
The Mechanical Mythal may have been part of that. I'll look and see if I can find it again.
PS: use of the word "subspace" was entirely my own. We just got a new Star Trek DVD collection, and it's been a "Trek-stravaganza" for the past week. |
Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 14 Sep 2011 16:49:30 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 16:49:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
The Mechanical Mythal may have been part of that. I'll look and see if I can find it again.
Mechanical Mythals were mentioned in the entry for "Mythals" on the FR Wiki, though without particular reference from the Realmslore.
[Which, I suspect, means this type of mythal is in fact a homebrew derivation of the standard mythal concept.] |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 16:53:27
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
The Mechanical Mythal may have been part of that. I'll look and see if I can find it again.
Mechanical Mythals were mentioned in the entry for "Mythals" on the FR Wiki, though without particular reference from the Realmslore.
[Which, I suspect, means this type of mythal is in fact a homebrew derivation of the standard mythal concept.]
That's possible. I sometimes use the wiki, and I might be remembering it from there. It's definitely not my personal idea.
Still, I have this vague memory of the Lantans studying a real but defunct/damaged mythal somewhere on their island, and using it as a reference to start work on their own mechanical version.
It's gonna bug me until I remember...
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 17:10:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Still, I have this vague memory of the Lantans studying a real but defunct/damaged mythal somewhere on their island, and using it as a reference to start work on their own mechanical version.
It's gonna bug me until I remember...
Ah. In that case, I suspect you're thinking of Myth Iiscar.
As noted in Cormanthyr [pg. 141]:- "Possibilities include making a city and all its inhabitants within the mythal fly (the fallen city of Myth Iiscar on the isle of Lantan) ... "
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 17:14:20
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| And, now that I'm remembering the details, 3e's Magic of Faerūn [pg. 47] tells us that:- "Little is known about this mythal city except that it was built on the isle of Lantan, allowed its inhabitants to fly, and was destroyed at some point. The Lantanese don't reveal any hints about its location, so they either don't know or are good at keeping secrets." |
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Edited by - The Sage on 14 Sep 2011 17:15:13 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 17:22:58
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And, now that I'm remembering the details, 3e's Magic of Faerūn [pg. 47] tells us that:- "Little is known about this mythal city except that it was built on the isle of Lantan, allowed its inhabitants to fly, and was destroyed at some point. The Lantanese don't reveal any hints about its location, so they either don't know or are good at keeping secrets."
Aha!
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 17:24:38
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The article mentions the tinkerer is a specialist in Interspatial Dynamics. I think the eventual portal will resemble a Star Trek like 'beam me up, Scotty' teleporter. Awesome!
*Puts on his Lantanese Gondar Cap*
Interspatial Dynamics research could lead to the discovery of finding the very fabric of reality itself, matter and energy. Barriers of matter and energy could possibly be overcome: the resistance of a material or energy barrier is exponentially related to the total amount of the matter or energy present in that situation. A radical theory could form from this: If all reality was once created, it must have started as one kind of matter. The current barriers that divide all matter in its different forms are the result of energy having been coursing through the multiverse over aeons of time. If all matter was once one, reversing all the energy directions towards its origin could cause the spatial barrier to break down aswell. This would make the location of a certain place to become irrelevant if enough energy could be generated: i.e. spatial locations are irrelevant!
*Takes of his Lantan Gnome Hat*
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 17:35:42
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| I wonder if the gnome nerds of Lantan carry pocket protectors in their hats. Are they also fond of little penguins? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2011 : 18:14:54
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Gnomish caps are often interspatial devices capable of summoning the right tool for the job at hand, so pocket protectors are not unheard of.
Gnomes generally prefer burrowing mammals of all kinds, but Lantanese could very well have acquired a different preference in animal companions. More likely the animals eschew them altogether because of the loud (and dangerous) contraptions lantanese gnomes surround themselves with. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2011 : 20:13:41
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Wouldn't a 'Mechanical Mythal' be a Mechal?
The strung-together skyships I proposed appeals to me more then a normal floating city, because it is even more fantastical and less derivative, and yet based on RW models (several Oriental cities have 'floating districts' composed of lashed-together derelict boats). There were towns like that in KT, and IIRC a part of 'New Waterdeep' is also like that (can't remember its name off-ghand). There was also that temporary raft-town in the Earthsea Trilogy (and IIRC, a very similar one in The Golden Compass).
I'm picturing a floating version of skullport (with less notoriety); A pasted-together mess with all sorts of frightening rope-bridges and what-not connecting it all together, in true Gondsmen fashion.
The Tinker Gnomes of Krynn would be SO jealous.
As for the other part, I just get a kick out of 'Sea Gnomes'... I don't know why... wasn't there a picture of something similar in 3e Unearthed Arcana? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Sep 2011 20:14:36 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2011 : 02:07:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Gnomish caps are often interspatial devices capable of summoning the right tool for the job at hand, so pocket protectors are not unheard of.
Sounds like something you'd find the wizards of Unseen University wearing. |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2011 : 17:23:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
The article mentions the tinkerer is a specialist in Interspatial Dynamics. I think the eventual portal will resemble a Star Trek like 'beam me up, Scotty' teleporter. Awesome!
*Puts on his Lantanese Gondar Cap*
Interspatial Dynamics research could lead to the discovery of finding the very fabric of reality itself, matter and energy. Barriers of matter and energy could possibly be overcome: the resistance of a material or energy barrier is exponentially related to the total amount of the matter or energy present in that situation. A radical theory could form from this: If all reality was once created, it must have started as one kind of matter. The current barriers that divide all matter in its different forms are the result of energy having been coursing through the multiverse over aeons of time. If all matter was once one, reversing all the energy directions towards its origin could cause the spatial barrier to break down aswell. This would make the location of a certain place to become irrelevant if enough energy could be generated: i.e. spatial locations are irrelevant!
*Takes of his Lantan Gnome Hat*
So a gnomish inventor of such devices...ahh, I know. His Name is 'Bill'. Bill O' The Gates... |
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Z33B
Acolyte
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2019 : 00:14:20
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Hello! Thread necromancer, apparently, but I wanted to point out the reference document that was posted recently (yes, by me) for use by players and DMs alike concerning Lantan.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23040
May it aid in your journey, Gondar. |
"What you want is not impossible, simply expensive." |
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Saving Lantan, making a steampunk gnome city
