| Author |
 Topic  |
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 01:42:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
But I would also argue that a Black Robe of High Sorcery (Dragonlance ) is by default a necromancer (they are the only wizards in Ansalon that can use necromancy, AFAIK, without being squished by the Orders, anyways).
I wouldn't say they're necromancers by default. While Black Robes can easily take up the practice of necromancy, that doesn't mean all of them do. It's still a personal choice, like specialising in divination or evocation for example. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
 |
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 01:55:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Marc
Male necromancers are usually creeps. I'd vote for Lashyr Maerdrym, white necromancer-ess of the Numos Order.
Keraptis if he was a necromancer, if not then Asphyxious the Iron Lich.
Oooh, good choice with Asphyxious! 
Agreed.
I'd also offer up the majority of "necrophiles" exampled in 2e's Complete Book of Necromancers, as I've used them all, in varying degrees, throughout many different campaigns. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 02:46:50
|
Most Necromancers on Krynn are Black Robes, although many are not. The badly grammared wiki page Mages of High Sorcery states
"as apprentices, mages may choose to specialize in any [one school] ... but it's not mandatory"
"Newly accepted Wizards of High Sorcery may benefit from (further) specializing in one of the schools favored by his chosen order."
"Specialized wizards tend to enter the order whose favored school they have already chose, but they are not forced to - though moral problems could arise from a necromancer's joining the White Robes"
Brown-Robes (Renegades) and Gray Robes (Knights of Takhasis/Neraka, Order of the Thorn) are not bound by the laws of the Conclave; they may choose to specialize in any one school, it is apparently common for Nuitari-worshipping Gray Robes to be Necromancers.
I must say the idea of a double-specialized Black Robe (say, a Conjurer/Necromancer or Invoker/Necromancer) could turn out quite nasty, at least within the 2E ruleset. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 03:05:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Most Necromancers on Krynn are Black Robes, although many are not. The badly grammared wiki page Mages of High Sorcery states
"as apprentices, mages may choose to specialize in any [one school] ... but it's not mandatory"
"Newly accepted Wizards of High Sorcery may benefit from (further) specializing in one of the schools favored by his chosen order."
"Specialized wizards tend to enter the order whose favored school they have already chose, but they are not forced to - though moral problems could arise from a necromancer's joining the White Robes"
Brown-Robes (Renegades) and Gray Robes (Knights of Takhasis/Neraka, Order of the Thorn) are not bound by the laws of the Conclave; they may choose to specialize in any one school, it is apparently common for Nuitari-worshipping Gray Robes to be Necromancers.
I must say the idea of a double-specialized Black Robe (say, a Conjurer/Necromancer or Invoker/Necromancer) could turn out quite nasty, at least within the 2E ruleset.
Goodness...that shows you how long it's been since I went back and took a walk through Ansalon. I admit I have not collected Dragonlance material with the fervor I have gathered All Things Realms to me (the Realms is the only 4th Edition campaign world material that I have gone out of my way to obtain, for example).
I will have to go back and peruse that. Thank you for the updates, gentlemen, I genuinely was not aware of some of those facts. |
|
|
|
Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 23:12:51
|
| Ah, the Necromancer's Handbook. One of my favorites. I've read it cover to cover many times, yet, strangely never run the Isle of Sahu. A pity. In my opinion twas one of the best books from 2e, even though it's not a Realms handbook. Anybody ever ''Realmsify'' it? I'd be interested in hearing the details. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
|
|
|
|
althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 23:20:35
|
| I can't believe Larloch got no love on this thread. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2011 : 23:32:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by althen artren
I can't believe Larloch got no love on this thread.
Where is it stated that he's a necromancer? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 02:40:54
|
It is not stated in the sources I've read. It is stated that Larloch is a kind of super-mage, having achieved mastery in every area of magic which surpasses that of normal specialists, he studies all forms of magic and has crafted powerful artifacts which involve almost every one of the magical schools (including those which oppose Necromancy). He is an uberlich who commands an army of liches and he is noted for writing Kirasect's Necrofolio (whatever that is); this suggests that he is certainly very adept at Necromancy, yet it doesn't actually require he be a Necromancer. I would think that if Larloch actually does possess any form of specialization (and attendant restrictions) then it would be shaped by his origins as a Netherese arcanist; ie, a modernized version of a Variator, Inventor, or Mentalist.
Having said that, Szass Tam's stats (at least in 1E and some 2E) described him as being a nonspecialist mage with a sort of "free" specialization in Necromancy because he's an undead lichy bastard "who understands undead as no living spellcaster can"; an annoying detail which always irritated me since it was established that Szass was Zulkir of Necromancy long before he actually liched himself up. If this quirky logic applied to all masterfully old liches then Larloch could indeed claim necromancy among his specialties, it could possibly even be said that Vampshoon gains a free Necromancer specialty as well.
FR Wiki links to some famous Necromancers who haven't yet been mentioned in this thread. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 05:22:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Marc
Male necromancers are usually creeps. I'd vote for Lashyr Maerdrym, white necromancer-ess of the Numos Order.
Keraptis if he was a necromancer, if not then Asphyxious the Iron Lich.
Oooh, good choice with Asphyxious!
Agreed.
I'd also offer up the majority of "necrophiles" exampled in 2e's Complete Book of Necromancers, as I've used them all, in varying degrees, throughout many different campaigns.
I'm now thinking Lord Exhumator Scaverous might be a better necro than Asphyxious. Iron Lich Wheezy prolly has the edge in raw arcane firepower, but after re-reading his description just now, I think Scaverous prolly has more knowledge of necromancy than Wheezy does. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 05:47:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Marc
Male necromancers are usually creeps. I'd vote for Lashyr Maerdrym, white necromancer-ess of the Numos Order.
Keraptis if he was a necromancer, if not then Asphyxious the Iron Lich.
Oooh, good choice with Asphyxious!
Agreed.
I'd also offer up the majority of "necrophiles" exampled in 2e's Complete Book of Necromancers, as I've used them all, in varying degrees, throughout many different campaigns.
I'm now thinking Lord Exhumator Scaverous might be a better necro than Asphyxious. Iron Lich Wheezy prolly has the edge in raw arcane firepower, but after re-reading his description just now, I think Scaverous prolly has more knowledge of necromancy than Wheezy does.
Mortenebra is a curious choice as well.
I know she's female, and technically outside the scope of this scroll, but it's said that Mortenebra is a paragon of the necrotech-craft, and that's always ensured that she would rate highly on my list of favourite necromancer-types.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 02 Sep 2011 05:48:12 |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 09:30:15
|
I didn't include Larloch because he's not a Necromancer per se. Larloch specializes in ALL types of magic. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 17:55:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Marc
Male necromancers are usually creeps. I'd vote for Lashyr Maerdrym, white necromancer-ess of the Numos Order.
Keraptis if he was a necromancer, if not then Asphyxious the Iron Lich.
Oooh, good choice with Asphyxious!
Agreed.
I'd also offer up the majority of "necrophiles" exampled in 2e's Complete Book of Necromancers, as I've used them all, in varying degrees, throughout many different campaigns.
I'm now thinking Lord Exhumator Scaverous might be a better necro than Asphyxious. Iron Lich Wheezy prolly has the edge in raw arcane firepower, but after re-reading his description just now, I think Scaverous prolly has more knowledge of necromancy than Wheezy does.
It is his name that wins :), funnier than Mydianchlarus the ultroloth. That reminds me Inthracis from Resurrection is one of the necromancers. |
. |
Edited by - Marc on 02 Sep 2011 17:55:46 |
|
|
|
Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 21:02:34
|
Same thing as Larloch: people assume powerful undead characters are all Necromancers.
But is Strahd even a mage? |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 21:21:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Same thing as Larloch: people assume powerful undead characters are all Necromancers.
But is Strahd even a mage?
I think at the end of the 2nd edition Strahd was a 16th level Necromancer. But his whole presence in Ravenloft was based on his vampirism, not the necromancy side. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 21:52:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Same thing as Larloch: people assume powerful undead characters are all Necromancers.
But is Strahd even a mage?
Yup, he's a spellslinger. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 22:25:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Same thing as Larloch: people assume powerful undead characters are all Necromancers.
But is Strahd even a mage?
I've followed Ravenloft a long while. Ever since I was given the Black Box, as a matter of fact, back in 1999. As of the Gazeteer Volume I from White Wolf (3E Ravenloft), he's been a Ftr 4/Necromancer 16. A great character that has given me many great memories and stories as a DM and player both. By the way, getting to play a member of the Von Zarovich family with all the gifts and curses of that bloodline can make for a wonderful character concept if you have the proper sourcebook of the families of Ravenloft.
I tend to run a Ravenloft campaign around fall and special occasions, and will be gearing up for it soon. Which means it's time to dust off my sourcebooks and beginning plotting. Ah, the Land of Mists...  |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2011 : 22:35:16
|
I learn something new every day.
Clearly my group has been away from Ravenloft for too long. They hate being stuck there. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2011 : 00:44:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I learn something new every day.
Clearly my group has been away from Ravenloft for too long. They hate being stuck there.
Glad I could be of some help to you, my friend. And many thanks to you for your thoughts on my golden mithril in the other scroll, also.
The campaign I run in the Land of Mists is a Natives campaign. I never was a big fan of playing an Outlander, really, or bringing them in. I use them, yes. But not as PCs. I prefer the manner of using them like Gennifer and Laurie Weathermay-Foxgrove encountered them, actually. Makes for a better tale, I feel.  |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2011 : 02:27:10
|
Although I didn't vote him despite my strong partiality to Netherese, I still thought Aumvor would have the most votes, given his accomplishments and reputation. I guess most people are disgusted by his looks, which seems worse than being a smelly walking bag of bones. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2011 : 02:50:15
|
| I'm thinking most people are confusing "favourite" with "most powerful". |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2011 : 03:09:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Although I didn't vote him despite my strong partiality to Netherese, I still thought Aumvor would have the most votes, given his accomplishments and reputation. I guess most people are disgusted by his looks, which seems worse than being a smelly walking bag of bones.
My interest in Aumvor was approaching near-legendary status on the Wizards boards... before all the Gleemax forum rearrangements began impacting on the amount of time I chose to spend over there. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2011 : 03:15:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by Penknight
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Same thing as Larloch: people assume powerful undead characters are all Necromancers.
But is Strahd even a mage?
I've followed Ravenloft a long while. Ever since I was given the Black Box, as a matter of fact, back in 1999. As of the Gazeteer Volume I from White Wolf (3E Ravenloft), he's been a Ftr 4/Necromancer 16. A great character that has given me many great memories and stories as a DM and player both. By the way, getting to play a member of the Von Zarovich family with all the gifts and curses of that bloodline can make for a wonderful character concept if you have the proper sourcebook of the families of Ravenloft.
Actually, Strahd's stats as a Ftr4/Nec16 were set from the original 3e Secrets of the Dread Realms supplement, and used almost consistently throughout the entire published line of White Wolf products for the RAVENLOFT setting. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 03 Sep 2011 03:15:53 |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2011 : 03:32:03
|
| I have no 2E stats for Strahd on record - was he originally just classed as a "Vampire"? I recall his appearance in the 2E Ravenloft setting (and even earlier 1E appearance in the epynomous I6: Ravenloft module) didn't really stat him up, plus they predate Van Richten's Guide to Vampires where the first canon rules (that I know of) allowed individual vampires to possess classes and special abilities. I read I, Strahd 16 years ago and can't recall much about the book except that I didn't like it, yet I don't think it mentioned Strahd practicing any magic which couldn't be explained as powers granted by vampirism and the land itself ... perhaps I read key details incorrectly or simply forgot them. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 03 Sep 2011 03:34:11 |
|
|
|
Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2011 : 04:35:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Penknight
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Same thing as Larloch: people assume powerful undead characters are all Necromancers.
But is Strahd even a mage?
I've followed Ravenloft a long while. Ever since I was given the Black Box, as a matter of fact, back in 1999. As of the Gazeteer Volume I from White Wolf (3E Ravenloft), he's been a Ftr 4/Necromancer 16. A great character that has given me many great memories and stories as a DM and player both. By the way, getting to play a member of the Von Zarovich family with all the gifts and curses of that bloodline can make for a wonderful character concept if you have the proper sourcebook of the families of Ravenloft.
Actually, Strahd's stats as a Ftr4/Nec16 were set from the original 3e Secrets of the Dread Realms supplement, and used almost consistently throughout the entire published line of White Wolf products for the RAVENLOFT setting.
That is true. However, I believe that the Gazeteer came out later, and was the most up to date (though granted, not much changed). That's why I stated it as "as of". And Sage, I'm curious what you thought of Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. I wasn't all that big a fan of it personally, and prefer to run I6 if I am going that route. What were your views on it? |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
Edited by - Penknight on 03 Sep 2011 04:36:20 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2011 : 04:50:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I have no 2E stats for Strahd on record - was he originally just classed as a "Vampire"? I recall his appearance in the 2E Ravenloft setting (and even earlier 1E appearance in the epynomous I6: Ravenloft module) didn't really stat him up, plus they predate Van Richten's Guide to Vampires where the first canon rules (that I know of) allowed individual vampires to possess classes and special abilities. I read I, Strahd 16 years ago and can't recall much about the book except that I didn't like it, yet I don't think it mentioned Strahd practicing any magic which couldn't be explained as powers granted by vampirism and the land itself ... perhaps I read key details incorrectly or simply forgot them.
Strahd was listed as an ancient vampire and 16th-level necromancer in the 2e Domains of Dread campaign setting. It's pretty much how he appeared throughout the rest of the material published for 2e RL as well. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2011 : 05:12:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by Penknight
And Sage, I'm curious what you thought of Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. I wasn't all that big a fan of it personally, and prefer to run I6 if I am going that route. What were your views on it?
Actually, and sadly, I was never able to obtain a copy when it was initially released here. It sold out rather quickly, and there was never an opportunity for second shipments.
So it's currently sitting on my "To-Purchase" list for when I next make an order at nobleknight.com. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2011 : 05:43:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Although I didn't vote him despite my strong partiality to Netherese, I still thought Aumvor would have the most votes, given his accomplishments and reputation. I guess most people are disgusted by his looks, which seems worse than being a smelly walking bag of bones.
My interest in Aumvor was approaching near-legendary status on the Wizards boards... before all the Gleemax forum rearrangements began impacting on the amount of time I chose to spend over there.
He is a genius and so great that two his most powerful spells were named after him. And if I'm not mistaken, he's the uber-lich who's got the most number of phylacteries. [And in the history of fantasy, I think he's the only obese lich.] |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2011 : 22:32:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I'm thinking most people are confusing "favourite" with "most powerful".
A lot of people use that as their criteria for favorite. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2011 : 04:57:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I'm thinking most people are confusing "favourite" with "most powerful".
A lot of people use that as their criteria for favorite.
As I do, most of the time. My primary criterion, though, is how well he's represented in fiction. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Your Favorite Male Necromancer (In All Settings)
