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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore

Denmark
1063 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2015 :  12:42:18  Show Profile  Visit Victor_ograygor's Homepage Send Victor_ograygor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Drows are generally Evil.. so Ill go with Loth :)

Victor Ograygor The Assassin and Candel keeps cellar master

Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people.

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LordofBones
Senior Scribe

419 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2015 :  12:43:36  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I find Eilistraee to be painfully boring. She's the token good teammate of the pantheon.

Honestly, I prefer Vhaeraun and Kiaransalee, if only because I like the politicking and backstabbing of the pantheon. Eilistraee just isn't that interesting as a divinity.

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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2687 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2015 :  13:26:53  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
YMMV ofc. She's actually unique and interesting in her role as a ''good'' goddess, because of the bond she has with the drow. In her story she chooses to be with them no matter what, she sacrifices her own happines for them, she shares their exile, their suffering, but also their dreams and wishes, the desire for a better life that many of them feel deep inside.

Eilistraee is one of them and fights for them, to make the dream of a life worthy of that name a reality.

She basically fulfills the role of the ''light in the darkness'', but does so in a way that is just hers. She is what Lolth could never be to the dark elves, a mother-goddess (such is what Ed said Eilistraee is meant to be) who gives her children the love, kindness, acceptance and the joy of life that was taken from them. In this way, she makes the drow understand that an alternative exists and helps them to make this choice, to grow and flourish in a hostile world.

Eilistraee also has the charm of the underdog forging her own path, inspiring her people to do the same, to choose their future and create their own happiness, in harmony with other races.

She's not trivial, unlike some describe her. Naturally, that's not everyone's cup of tea, but neither are politics and backstabbing (and on a side note, Vhaeraun is close to his sister on this matter, as he doesn't like infighting among the drow -- even though he doesn't hesitate to use shady methods on his enemies).

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 27 Jan 2015 13:27:27
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Xanthias
Acolyte

9 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2015 :  23:00:30  Show Profile Send Xanthias a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Vhaeraun. Complex, fiercely independent and proud, cruel but pursuing a very important goal.
Kiaransalee is cool, too, and Eilistraee is anything but boring. Selvetarm has this sad backstory, and Ghaundaur... well, his particular brand of weirdness is fun.
Now that I think about it, Lolth is the only boring deity. Overexposure will do that to a character.
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LordofBones
Senior Scribe

419 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2015 :  04:12:43  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eilistraee's entire concept was pretty much doomed to fail from the get-go. As a good goddess in a sea of evil deities, she's too drastic a leap for anyone who wishes to turn from Lolth without a drastic change of alignment. As the deific chief of a matriarchy-oriented priesthood, a male escaping Lolth's clergy would have no reason to even want to worship her.

Her Masked Lady aspect was the best of both worlds; being both gender-equal and somewhat indifferent to alignment.
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe

688 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2015 :  06:48:28  Show Profile  Visit MrHedgehog's Homepage Send MrHedgehog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Eilistraee's entire concept was pretty much doomed to fail from the get-go. As a good goddess in a sea of evil deities, she's too drastic a leap for anyone who wishes to turn from Lolth without a drastic change of alignment. As the deific chief of a matriarchy-oriented priesthood, a male escaping Lolth's clergy would have no reason to even want to worship her.

Her Masked Lady aspect was the best of both worlds; being both gender-equal and somewhat indifferent to alignment.



Her worshipers did not have to be good. Even her priestesses could be Neutral. Characters in the world don't know they are evil and they may just worship the alternative goddess...

I love the Eilistraee-Vhaeraun "Masked Lady/Lord" hybrid/merged deity and like to pretend they weren't killed off.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2687 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2015 :  09:55:52  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Eilistraee's entire concept was pretty much doomed to fail from the get-go. As a good goddess in a sea of evil deities, she's too drastic a leap for anyone who wishes to turn from Lolth without a drastic change of alignment. As the deific chief of a matriarchy-oriented priesthood, a male escaping Lolth's clergy would have no reason to even want to worship her.

Her Masked Lady aspect was the best of both worlds; being both gender-equal and somewhat indifferent to alignment.



As I've said a couple posts above, Eilistraee is and offers to the drow something that no other deity can, but that many dark elves ultimately, deep inside need (just like any other creature). People of any gender who wish for a different life, Eilistraee can bring them this hope and make it real, taking the role of a mother goddess for all drow. It isn't doomed to fail, but it is indeed a very audacious goal, as part of her point is to lead the drow to an alternative, not to offer a better deal to those who are unhappy with Lolth, but still want all the scheming for power and so on.

I give you that it is hard for her to succeed, but that is part of what makes her fascinating, as I said; being a underdog forging her own path no matter what hardships she faces, a light that keeps shining despite all the darkness around her.

And while the vast majority of their communities are led by women (which is not an inherently bad thing IMO) and males can't be priests (most likely because, using Ed's words, ''One cannot truly feel the Divine Dance of Eilistraee PROPERLY except as a female''), they are respected and get a gender-fair treatment (outside of access to clergy), like it was also said in a SKR's article regarding drow society. Also, according to Ed

quote:
Except among clergy dwelling together in a temple (or forest “temple” community; I’m not speaking here of holy buildings or even a fixed worship site), I don’t think there are any such things as “Eilistreean communities.” (Remember, individuals in the Realms worship an array of gods, not a single deity.) Eilistreean-DOMINATED communities and Eilistreean households, yes. In all of those, females tend to govern (formally make decisions and be consulted in decision-making as the individuals with most social “weight” and influence), involving males primarily as “spot experts” (e.g. “You saw the attack, Phaerold, so tell us - -” and “You’ve dealt with that human more than the rest of us, Phaerold; please give us your opinion as to - - “) Males tend to be daily-bread-winning workers, guards and warriors, and have tasks related to their generally superior physical strength. They do not tend to be supervisors and high-ranking decision-makers. (Please note the word “tend.” I’m speaking in gross generalizations here, not of “a rule that holds true in all cases.”) Many males - - even clerics of Eilistraee - - become spies, scouts, patrolling guards, or leaders of lawkeeping or defensive military forces for Eilistreean-dominated communities or Eilistreean-dedicated holy communities. (To answer Kentinal’s Jan06 query: “Some wonder how Eilistraee reacts to Wizards as followers as there has been little mention of Eilistraee following mages and the one of note is female, where do males fit in?” I can add that male wizards (of any race) accepted as worshippers of Eilistraee also serve in such capacities (and as “resident experts in arcane magic”)


This has to be true for females who are not priestesses as well. They would fit in the worker or warrior/spy/expert category (after all, if they do not handle the administrative/leadership aspects, what do you picture them doing?).

and

quote:
However, these gender matters can be overstated and overemphasized. On the whole, all clergy of the Dark Maiden welcome an increase in worshippers of the Goddess, and the fellowship (and working with) more and more Servants of the Dark Dancer.


Naturally things change from community to community and from individual to individual, some drow women (mostly recent converts, I guess, as a result of the remnants of their prevous lifestyle) can display sexism or lack of trust towards males, but the latter are lovingly welcomed by Eilistraee to join her, and definitely do have a place among her followers. Priests represent a narrow minority (and few people have becoming one as a goal), males would definitely have plenty of reasons to worship Eilistraee (and keep in mind that worshipping her doesn't mean exlcusively her), even if priestesses still rule, they would be treated with fairness.

Considering this, the novels seem to have gone way overborad with sexism among the Eilistraeens.

That said, the Masked Lady is an interesting concept, but I would far prefer for Eilistraee and Vhaeraun to knock the rough edges off and come to an agreement. It would have the same effect, and bring to the drow the best of both worlds, while preserving both of their awesome identities.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 31 Mar 2015 10:50:47
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Roseweave
Learned Scribe

Ireland
212 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2015 :  01:33:06  Show Profile  Visit Roseweave's Homepage  Send Roseweave an AOL message  Send Roseweave an ICQ Message Send Roseweave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eilistraee even though she's a Mary Sue. Feel bad she's winning so hard though makes her more of a Mary Sue lol.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2687 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2015 :  02:09:58  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Roseweave

Eilistraee even though she's a Mary Sue. Feel bad she's winning so hard though makes her more of a Mary Sue lol.



Sarcasm? Eilistraee and her followers ultimately get the short end of the stick in every event they appear... this is the first time I hear this about her

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 03 Apr 2015 02:17:05
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
497 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2015 :  02:58:19  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think Roseweave meant that Eilistraee has the vast majority of voices in this thread.

And I also votted for her, although I like all of the drow gods XD.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2687 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2015 :  17:10:45  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

I think Roseweave meant that Eilistraee has the vast majority of voices in this thread.

And I also votted for her, although I like all of the drow gods XD.



Oh I see. Well, Eilistraee's indeed popular, she and Vhaeraun are two ''dark horses'', so to speak. Underdogs and deities of little influence in their lore, they also started as underdogs/marginal characters in terms of popularity, but became unexpectedly well liked.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe

USA
520 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2015 :  18:39:11  Show Profile  Visit GRYPHON's Homepage Send GRYPHON a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lolth...
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