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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Jul 2011 : 21:11:33
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The following is an excerpt from Demihuman Deities that caught my attention...
The Misty Vale is a largely unexplored, thickly overgrown, stiflingly hot jungle tucked between the Dun Hills, the Cliffs of Talar, and the Bandit Wastes, due east of Lapaliiya and the Shining Sea. In the courts of the High Suihk of Ormpur and the Overking of Lapaliiya, records dating back to the founding of both realms speak of a race of feral elves dwelling in the steaming forest who hunt down and kill any intruders into their ancient homeland. To the other races of the region, these legendary denizens of the Misty Vale are known as the grugach. This term's on-gin has been variously ascribed to an archaic elvish term meaning feral ones, a green elven clan name, and a word coined by a traveler from another world who saw similarities between the tales told in Lapaliiya and the most reclusive wild elves of his own land. In truth, the Fair Folk of the Misty Vale are simply a primitive and highly xenophobic clan of green elves, albeit with a significant amount of moon elven and dark elven blood, who have been isolated from the outside world for centuries. The term grugach is indeed a misnomer dating back to the visit of a sorcerer from a world known as Oerth, but the name has stuck in the popular imagination of the region.
The Misty Vale has been continuously occupied by the Fair Folk since the Second Crown War was fought approximately 13,000 years ago. First, the moon elven realm of Orishaar (located in the forests that now make up the Duskwood and the plains of the Shaar) fell swiftly to the brutal surprise attack of the dark elves of Ilythiir. Then the green elven realms of Syorpiir, Eiellur, and Theamytaar (located in the woodlands that stretched from what is today the Thomwood to the Chondalwood) fell in the five centuries that followed. The fall of Eiellur was aided in part by traitorous green elves who thought their appeasement actions could help restore the peace. After each defeat at the hands of the dark elves, the surviving populace was enslaved by the Ilythiiri. In most cases, the enslaved moon elves and green elves were absorbed into the general population by the genetically dominant dark elves within a generation or two. The betrayers of Eiellur were rewarded by the Ilythiiri with an untamed, tangled tract of jungle on a plateau overlooking the River Talar. While few survived the horrors that had been previously unleashed in the woodlands by dark elven sorcerers and still lurked therein, a small band, reduced to a barbaric way of life, managed to survive with the protection of Fenmarel and took to calling themselves the Or- Tel'Quessir or people of the woods. Over time their feral descendants were joined by escaped moon elven and green elven slaves fleeing conscription and life on the Ilythiiri slave farms, and the population grew. Although the Ilythiiri would have undoubtedly hunted the Misty Vale tribe to extinction eventually, the Descent of the Drow spared the Or-Tel'Quessir from that horrific fate.
Of all the Seldarine, the Fair Folk of the Misty Vale venerate only Fenmarel, for they turned away from the rest of the elven pantheon millennia ago out of feelings of both personal guilt and abandonment by their gods. Tales of the Lone Wolf's own betrayal by the Spider Queen have been incorporated into the ancient tales of betrayal at the hands of the hated Ilythiiri that still dominate the oral tradition of the Or-Tel'Quessir. Some myths claim that Fenmarel personally led the tribe out of bondage. Other legends claim the Lone Wolf dwelt alone among the beasts of the Misty Vale until the Or-Tel'Quessir arrived and that for many years he taught them the skills of camouflage, deception, and secrecy they would need to survive. While the feral Or-Tel'Quessir have built no temples to their god, Fenmarel's shrines are found wherever the jungle is thickest and most tangled. In turn, the Lone Wolf acts through the fearsome predators of the forest, descended from the castoffs of unholy experiments of Ilythiiri sorcerers, causing them to hunt down intruders but ignore the Fair Folk who dwell among them.
Has anybody used this "lost tribe?" How do you think such a tribe of elves would feel about half-elves? Any ideas for a half-grugach character? Any followers of Fenmarel out there?
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Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 02 Jul 2011 21:16:57
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2011 : 10:38:33
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| In my campaign they were dispersed or killed by the yuan-ti from Lhespen, they would tolerate half-elves for a time, those who prove to be culturally compatible |
z455t |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2011 : 20:20:06
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Thats quite awesome.
The Rockseer Elves in Elves of Fearun are indeed a good fit for this story. Lanky pale elves with earth and stone based powers could easily survive and hide in fetid monster infested jungles.
Might be fun to ponder what happened with some of the Ilythiiri blooded Rockseer Elves after Eilistraee's Sacrifce. Some might have changed into a whole new hybridized race of rockseer blessed green elves. It could even be that some Drow reverted into smaller sized Rockseer Elves, bolstering the "Grugach" population in the late 3.5 area and into the 4th edition FR timeline. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2011 : 05:37:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Might be fun to ponder what happened with some of the Ilythiiri blooded Rockseer Elves after Eilistraee's Sacrifce. Some might have changed into a whole new hybridized race of rockseer blessed green elves. It could even be that some Drow reverted into smaller sized Rockseer Elves, bolstering the "Grugach" population in the late 3.5 area and into the 4th edition FR timeline.
-Unless they were Eilistraeeans- which is doubtful, since they were imagined to be extremely secretive and isolated from the rest of Faerūn and might not have even heard of Eilistraee, but possible, since they were imagined to be remorseful of what they did and who they sided with- they'd likely remain the way they are/were, and nothing about them would change. Remember, after all, all Ilythiiri descended Drow bear the taint to Wendonai.  |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2011 : 11:41:01
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Aye, agreed on the Eilistraean clause.
Seems odd though that these Fenmarel blessed "Grugach" got a blessing of stone and earth based powers, quite atypical for elves and Fenmarel Mestarine alike. Certainly handy when cast down under the surface, but odd nontheless.
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3738 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2011 : 18:16:09
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| -Mark, if I remember correctly, wrote that article (It's all been so long, I don't remember what was written by who). Traitor Green Elves were, according to the narrative, exiled to the Underdark along with the Drow, too. Specifics are not mentioned, but their physical transformation could have been caused by the Descent of the Drow High Magic spell that transformed the Dark Elves into Drow or perhaps by Fenmarel Mestarine or Rillifane Rallathil, in response to them being repentant after being dragged into the Underdark by/with the Drow, as a boon to living/surviving in their new environment. Maybe a combination of both. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2011 : 00:46:57
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| I had thought to incorporate elements of the feral drow society from Xen'drik innto the grugach, but I'm considering another tack. Nobody has played a follower of Fenmarel? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe
Belgium
273 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 22:28:42
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| Dragon 119 mention grugach in the realms too on p.43. |
« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2391 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 18:29:38
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I don't see value in shoehorning every Greyhawk oddity where it doesn't belong.
quote:
Originally posted by Duneth Despana
Dragon 119 mention grugach in the realms too on p.43.
What does it say? |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6354 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 20:26:41
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
I don't see value in shoehorning every Greyhawk oddity where it doesn't belong.
quote:
Originally posted by Duneth Despana
Dragon 119 mention grugach in the realms too on p.43.
What does it say?
It's a passing reference:
"Korreds are curious folk indeed to humans, who tend to lump them together with the fey, dangerous creatures of the woods and wilderlands (like satyrs, grugach, leprechauns, and pixies) that are best avoided."
The article is "The Ecology of the Korred," by Ed himself. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 09 Sep 2015 20:49:55 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2391 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2015 : 16:31:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's a passing reference:
"Korreds are curious folk indeed to humans, who tend to lump them together with the fey, dangerous creatures of the woods and wilderlands (like satyrs, grugach, leprechauns, and pixies) that are best avoided."
So (given that the rest of list are, indeed, all recognizably "fey creatures") we can't even be sure they were not "grigs" before meeting some editor in a dark alley?..
quote:
The article is "The Ecology of the Korred," by Ed himself.
...but then, we can ask.  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2015 : 16:59:52
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's a passing reference:
"Korreds are curious folk indeed to humans, who tend to lump them together with the fey, dangerous creatures of the woods and wilderlands (like satyrs, grugach, leprechauns, and pixies) that are best avoided."
So (given that the rest of list are, indeed, all recognizably "fey creatures") we can't even be sure they were not "grigs" before meeting some editor in a dark alley?..
Honestly, I'd assume that the grugach reference in the article was more of a generic one, and not an actual statement of inclusion in the Realms. Other than the introductory part of the article, there's nothing Realms-specific in it, and nothing flags it as a Realms article (not even the fact that Ed wrote it -- he's written for a bunch of other TSR/WotC settings, including my personal fave, Spelljammer; he's also written for other settings of his own and other shared settings not owned by WotC).
However, the quoted part in the opening post shows that -- whether or not Ed intended it -- it is canon that there are elves known as grugach in the Realms. However, that same reference shows these are not Oerth grugach, but instead, just a name dropped on elves of similar appearance. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
551 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2015 : 21:12:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Honestly, I'd assume that the grugach reference in the article was more of a generic one, and not an actual statement of inclusion in the Realms. Other than the introductory part of the article, there's nothing Realms-specific in it, and nothing flags it as a Realms article (not even the fact that Ed wrote it -- he's written for a bunch of other TSR/WotC settings, including my personal fave, Spelljammer; he's also written for other settings of his own and other shared settings not owned by WotC).
However, the quoted part in the opening post shows that -- whether or not Ed intended it -- it is canon that there are elves known as grugach in the Realms. However, that same reference shows these are not Oerth grugach, but instead, just a name dropped on elves of similar appearance.
Grugach have an entry in the 1st Ed Monster Manual II, without any Greyhawk specific details (unlike the Valley Elves that are right after), so I would suspect that reference was intended to refer to them. The original Dragon article doesn't specifically tie them to Greyhawk, either. That said, I really feel like there are plenty of elves in the Forgotten Realms, and grugach don't really bring anything that doesn't already exist in the Forgotten Realms as a subset of the green elf character, IMO. I'd agree that in the Realms "grugach" is just an alternate name for some green elves.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2015 : 15:08:12
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That's true, in the last line of the 1st paragraph it is said:
"The term grugach is indeed a misnomer dating back to the visit of a sorcerer from a world known as Oerth, but the name has stuck in the popular imagination of the region." |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Grugach
