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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Jun 2011 : 02:09:57
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Why was Cyric imprisoned for killing Mystra? He is/was? the god of murder after all. Even Ao said it was his divine duty to try to murder the gods themselves. FG Wiki states that TYR was one of those who helped with the imprisonment in retaliation for murdering Mystra. That's TYR- god of law and justice ffs. The same god who presided over the trials of Kelemvor and Mystra for exceeding their divine remit.
Does canon mean nothing any more. 
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2011 : 04:10:27
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-Author/Designer fiat. 
-He is/was deity of murder, and was just doing his job, sure. But, deities who represent justice and such also have jobs to do, and locking up a murderer is something they'd have to do. It's their nature to prosecute him as much as it is his to murder. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2011 : 14:03:44
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| Precedent states that as Ao decreed a trial must be held, all gods would know this. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2011 : 17:05:11
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| -And, would've the prospect of a looming theoretical trial stayed his hand? Of course not- especially since he got to extract revenge against one of his most hated foes, and ultimately received nothing more than house arrest (with the added benefit of still being able to communicate and guide his followers, like mafioso and gang leaders do from their prison cells). |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2011 : 07:03:23
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Did Ao say it was his divine duty to try to kill the Gods in a novel? I haven't read them all, but I don't remember that. Where did you read that?
I think they just wanted Mystra to die because it was dramatic, and a way to cause an event that would allow them to reshape the Forgotten Realms so that it fit 4th edition rules. If they were following Canon it doesn't make logical sense to me at all that Mystra died.
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Saer Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
124 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2011 : 07:06:47
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| I don't think that fear of a trial would deter Cyric. (Doesn't do much to stop mortal murderers...) |
Brace Cormaeril |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3285 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2011 : 10:12:56
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It would be really funny if the other gods forgot to freem him after his 1000 years is up. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 06 Jun 2011 10:13:15 |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2011 : 18:04:26
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Did Ao say it was his divine duty to try to kill the Gods in a novel? I haven't read them all, but I don't remember that. Where did you read that?
I think they just wanted Mystra to die because it was dramatic, and a way to cause an event that would allow them to reshape the Forgotten Realms so that it fit 4th edition rules. If they were following Canon it doesn't make logical sense to me at all that Mystra died.
Yes, in Prince of Lies when mystra calls the greater gods to trial Cyric for killing Leira. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2011 : 18:19:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
It would be really funny if the other gods forgot to freem him after his 1000 years is up.
-Even if they did, it's not like it'd mean anything. "Imprisoned", he had full access to grant spells to his followers, and guide them. Not much of a punishment, really. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2011 : 04:18:54
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What's the point of imprisoning him if he can still spin his schemes by reaching to his minions? That's not punishment enough. If Ao is serious enough to prevent Cyric from murdering any more gods (which would probably ruin the Balance, but still quite ironic because he himself said that's Cyric's nature), then he could just strip the mad god of his divine essence. Perhaps Ao has laid some limitation on Cyric's murdering spree that only he and Cyric know? (Something like, "You can try to kill this but never (ever!) that!"?) |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2011 : 05:00:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
What's the point of imprisoning him if he can still spin his schemes by reaching to his minions? That's not punishment enough. If Ao is serious enough to prevent Cyric from murdering any more gods (which would probably ruin the Balance, but still quite ironic because he himself said that's Cyric's nature), then he could just strip the mad god of his divine essence. Perhaps Ao has laid some limitation on Cyric's murdering spree that only he and Cyric know? (Something like, "You can try to kill this but never (ever!) that!"?)
I would think imprisoning him is a matter of balance as you said, but yet, he cannot directly punish him because he did indeed tell him it was his nature and was expected of him. He has just been a wee bit too successful for a guy only recently ascended to divinity.
Imprisoning him prevents him from going to other divine realms and killing more gods for a thousand years, but does not interfere with his ability to contact followers and keep doing his duty.
Seems right to me given the way he destroyed the balance. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2011 : 17:33:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
What's the point of imprisoning him if he can still spin his schemes by reaching to his minions? That's not punishment enough.
-It's a senseless and pointless punishment. During his imprisonment, we know that Cyricists gained more power on Faerūn, and as such, Cyric became more powerful in the divine realms. He was able to interact fully and communicate with his followers. He simply wasn't allowed to "leave" his "prison cell". It would prevent him from running around, metaphysically, and personally doing things among the divine realms, and having a say in things, but even that is hardly a punishment, as we know Cyric never was much of a "team player" when it came down to such divine gatherings and such, as evidenced by scenes from the Avatar series. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 01:41:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-And, would've the prospect of a looming theoretical trial stayed his hand? Of course not- especially since he got to extract revenge against one of his most hated foes, and ultimately received nothing more than house arrest (with the added benefit of still being able to communicate and guide his followers, like mafioso and gang leaders do from their prison cells).
Tyr has always been portrayed as a stickler for the rules, so yes he would have stayed his hand (he was the god of law and justice after all). I can't believe he would go along with it simply because Cyric had not broken any rules. It wouldn't sit right with Tyr if ANY punishment was given without justification. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 04:50:47
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Perhaps in this moment there is more mystery than we can imagine. Maybe there is some other great counter plan in motion in which Cyric must not interfere personally for it to succeed.
True, Cyricists have power of their deity and they are very dangerous with his contagious madness and zealousness. Yet, the greatest of dangers is he himself. The dastardly once-human really pushes it by making a LOT of personal interventions with using his avatar. Maybe that is the greatest effort the deities can do against him in face of rules.
Also, do not forget that Mystra is critically important for the world. Remember Karsus, remember Time of Troubles. And see what happened now. I bet Ao did not like it at all, considering his Watcher-like attitude. He would not care about any other deity in my opinion, because no one had such great vital role in life of Realms. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 04:53:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
Tyr has always been portrayed as a stickler for the rules, so yes he would have stayed his hand (he was the god of law and justice after all). I can't believe he would go along with it simply because Cyric had not broken any rules. It wouldn't sit right with Tyr if ANY punishment was given without justification.
-We're not talking about Tyr staying his hand. We're talking about Cyric staying his hand. The prospect of a trial if he did what he did- take revenge against his most hated enemy, Mystra, by assassinating her- and being punished for it wouldn't prevent him from taking revenge against his most hated enemy. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 05:40:48
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I'm hesitant to believe Ao would give Cyric a pointless punishment. There might be more to it than he and the mad god let the others know... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 05:49:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I'm hesitant to believe Ao would give Cyric a pointless punishment. There might be more to it than he and the mad god let the others know...
-That may be so, but, so far, the WotC authors/designers haven't elaborated, and the relative slower pace that information gets released at now, coupled with it being a relatively obscure topic for a DDI article/novel plothook, makes me think nothing else is ever going to come of it. It would be nice to be wrong, here, though. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 10:46:47
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| I'm not sure Ao can be considered a factor in this. Ao was not, as I recall, liked by the 4E design team, and was quietly shuffled off to one side. To me, the bigger Ao-related question remains how Shar, who does not have the ability to do so, somehow blocked the ascension of a new deity of magic. That ability is solely Ao's, yet he remains unmentioned with everything regarding Mystra's murder and the subsequent effects on the Realms. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 11:50:49
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Ao allowed Shar to prevent any deity from becoming the new goddess of magic because he knew Mystra wasn't totally destroyed. Also, given that Ao himself deemed Mystra's role to be of great importance to Toril, I wouldn't be surprised if he helped Mystra in making all her contingencies. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 13:48:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
Tyr has always been portrayed as a stickler for the rules, so yes he would have stayed his hand (he was the god of law and justice after all). I can't believe he would go along with it simply because Cyric had not broken any rules. It wouldn't sit right with Tyr if ANY punishment was given without justification.
-We're not talking about Tyr staying his hand. We're talking about Cyric staying his hand. The prospect of a trial if he did what he did- take revenge against his most hated enemy, Mystra, by assassinating her- and being punished for it wouldn't prevent him from taking revenge against his most hated enemy.
Whoops, sorry, I misread your post  |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 15:24:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
What's the point of imprisoning him if he can still spin his schemes by reaching to his minions? That's not punishment enough.
-It's a senseless and pointless punishment. During his imprisonment, we know that Cyricists gained more power on Faerūn, and as such, Cyric became more powerful in the divine realms. He was able to interact fully and communicate with his followers. He simply wasn't allowed to "leave" his "prison cell". It would prevent him from running around, metaphysically, and personally doing things among the divine realms, and having a say in things, but even that is hardly a punishment, as we know Cyric never was much of a "team player" when it came down to such divine gatherings and such, as evidenced by scenes from the Avatar series.
Anyone have the FRCG handy at the moment? Because unless there has been a DDI article or novel that says otherwise their power has declined since his imprisonment. His followers do still gain spells but we don't know at what power level. (In 3.5 terms can they cast spells above 3rd level? In 4e I havent seen or come across a paragon or epic level cleric yet in the Monster Manuals.) We do know one of his directives to the church is ,"Get me the hell out of here." |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you dont want to move to the new Realms, that doesnt mean theres anything wrong with either you or the old Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches wont fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 16:09:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
It would be really funny if the other gods forgot to freem him after his 1000 years is up.
Oh, I'm sure some band of foolish mortals from all walks of life will eventually get around to freeing him. By accident, of course. 
(I say this because this has already happened in my 4e paragon game. Gods, was the rest of the party upset at the warlock for THAT one.)
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 16:27:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
Anyone have the FRCG handy at the moment? Because unless there has been a DDI article or novel that says otherwise their power has declined since his imprisonment. His followers do still gain spells but we don't know at what power level. (In 3.5 terms can they cast spells above 3rd level? In 4e I havent seen or come across a paragon or epic level cleric yet in the Monster Manuals.) We do know one of his directives to the church is ,"Get me the hell out of here."
The entry about Cyric says nothing about his fellowers being limited in any way. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 16:38:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Ao allowed Shar to prevent any deity from becoming the new goddess of magic because he knew Mystra wasn't totally destroyed. Also, given that Ao himself deemed Mystra's role to be of great importance to Toril, I wouldn't be surprised if he helped Mystra in making all her contingencies.
It doesn't matter if he allowed it or not -- Shar does not have the ability to do that. Things like that are limited to Ao and Ao alone. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3736 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 17:58:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
Anyone have the FRCG handy at the moment? Because unless there has been a DDI article or novel that says otherwise their power has declined since his imprisonment. His followers do still gain spells but we don't know at what power level. (In 3.5 terms can they cast spells above 3rd level? In 4e I havent seen or come across a paragon or epic level cleric yet in the Monster Manuals.) We do know one of his directives to the church is ,"Get me the hell out of here."
-Reading the FRCG, look at the in-roads that Cyricists have made in cementing and expanding their power on Faerūn. Their power is Cyric's power (ie, the more widespread and powerful they become, preaching they do, the more followers Cyric has, the more power he has). |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 20:20:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Ao allowed Shar to prevent any deity from becoming the new goddess of magic because he knew Mystra wasn't totally destroyed. Also, given that Ao himself deemed Mystra's role to be of great importance to Toril, I wouldn't be surprised if he helped Mystra in making all her contingencies.
It doesn't matter if he allowed it or not -- Shar does not have the ability to do that. Things like that are limited to Ao and Ao alone.
Not necessarily. It specifically stated somewhere that Shar prevented the rise of a new Mystra. Not sure where I read that, I'll have to go look it up.
Remembering that Mystra was "half Selune energy and half Shar energy," I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that once Mystra's power was released in the Spellplague that both Selune and Shar might both have some claim to the power that was released. If Shar gobbled up some of Mystra's energy, then Mystra might not be able to reform herself without the part "returned" to Shar.
Given that Selune was an ally of Mystra, it's easy to say that any "Selune-side" energy might be held in trust by Selune for Mystra. But Shar was clearly an enemy, and if Mystra needs both halves to be complete and Shar holds on to her half, then perhaps Mystra cannot reform whether Ao says anything about it or not.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 22:22:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Ao allowed Shar to prevent any deity from becoming the new goddess of magic because he knew Mystra wasn't totally destroyed. Also, given that Ao himself deemed Mystra's role to be of great importance to Toril, I wouldn't be surprised if he helped Mystra in making all her contingencies.
It doesn't matter if he allowed it or not -- Shar does not have the ability to do that. Things like that are limited to Ao and Ao alone.
Not necessarily. It specifically stated somewhere that Shar prevented the rise of a new Mystra. Not sure where I read that, I'll have to go look it up.
Remembering that Mystra was "half Selune energy and half Shar energy," I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that once Mystra's power was released in the Spellplague that both Selune and Shar might both have some claim to the power that was released. If Shar gobbled up some of Mystra's energy, then Mystra might not be able to reform herself without the part "returned" to Shar.
Given that Selune was an ally of Mystra, it's easy to say that any "Selune-side" energy might be held in trust by Selune for Mystra. But Shar was clearly an enemy, and if Mystra needs both halves to be complete and Shar holds on to her half, then perhaps Mystra cannot reform whether Ao says anything about it or not.
The issue is that in prior canon, only Ao could block the ascension of a new deity -- no other deity can. Therefore, the only way Shar could stop a new deity of magic from coming up was if she became the deity of magic herself.
Besides, if Shar could do that, we never would have had a Mystra in the first place -- Mystryl would have been the last deity of magic. |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 23:03:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Ao allowed Shar to prevent any deity from becoming the new goddess of magic because he knew Mystra wasn't totally destroyed. Also, given that Ao himself deemed Mystra's role to be of great importance to Toril, I wouldn't be surprised if he helped Mystra in making all her contingencies.
It doesn't matter if he allowed it or not -- Shar does not have the ability to do that. Things like that are limited to Ao and Ao alone.
Not necessarily. It specifically stated somewhere that Shar prevented the rise of a new Mystra. Not sure where I read that, I'll have to go look it up.
Remembering that Mystra was "half Selune energy and half Shar energy," I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that once Mystra's power was released in the Spellplague that both Selune and Shar might both have some claim to the power that was released. If Shar gobbled up some of Mystra's energy, then Mystra might not be able to reform herself without the part "returned" to Shar.
Given that Selune was an ally of Mystra, it's easy to say that any "Selune-side" energy might be held in trust by Selune for Mystra. But Shar was clearly an enemy, and if Mystra needs both halves to be complete and Shar holds on to her half, then perhaps Mystra cannot reform whether Ao says anything about it or not.
The issue is that in prior canon, only Ao could block the ascension of a new deity -- no other deity can. Therefore, the only way Shar could stop a new deity of magic from coming up was if she became the deity of magic herself.
Besides, if Shar could do that, we never would have had a Mystra in the first place -- Mystryl would have been the last deity of magic.
I think it's more that Ao has to approve new deities, or the changeover of portfolios when it's a brand new deity in a given job. If deities undergo re-birth (Lolth, Bane, Mystra, Amaunator), Ao doesn't appear to get involved. Similarly, if a current deity kills another and steals a given portfolio, Ao doesn't really get involved.
If it's a new ascension, then yes, he comes in to not only approve or disapprove but also to "set the rules" for the new deity in various respects.
Mystra, though, is an old deity and there really is no complete separation between Mystryl, Mystra1 and Mystra2. She is equal parts of Shar and Selune energy, and if she can't access both halves (perhaps because Shar took her part back) then Shar could indeed "block" Mystra's rebirth and Ao might not get involved at all.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 23:12:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
I think it's more that Ao has to approve new deities, or the changeover of portfolios when it's a brand new deity in a given job. If deities undergo re-birth (Lolth, Bane, Mystra, Amaunator), Ao doesn't appear to get involved. Similarly, if a current deity kills another and steals a given portfolio, Ao doesn't really get involved.
If it's a new ascension, then yes, he comes in to not only approve or disapprove but also to "set the rules" for the new deity in various respects.
Mystra, though, is an old deity and there really is no complete separation between Mystryl, Mystra1 and Mystra2. She is equal parts of Shar and Selune energy, and if she can't access both halves (perhaps because Shar took her part back) then Shar could indeed "block" Mystra's rebirth and Ao might not get involved at all.
Again, Shar has no control over the ascension of new deities. Only Ao can regulate that.
And again, if Shar had to approve the rebirth of Mystra, why didn't she stop it on any of the prior occasions?
Mystryl may have been formed from Shar and Selūne, but there has never been the slightest indication that either deity has any power over her. |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 23:26:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
I think it's more that Ao has to approve new deities, or the changeover of portfolios when it's a brand new deity in a given job. If deities undergo re-birth (Lolth, Bane, Mystra, Amaunator), Ao doesn't appear to get involved. Similarly, if a current deity kills another and steals a given portfolio, Ao doesn't really get involved.
If it's a new ascension, then yes, he comes in to not only approve or disapprove but also to "set the rules" for the new deity in various respects.
Mystra, though, is an old deity and there really is no complete separation between Mystryl, Mystra1 and Mystra2. She is equal parts of Shar and Selune energy, and if she can't access both halves (perhaps because Shar took her part back) then Shar could indeed "block" Mystra's rebirth and Ao might not get involved at all.
Again, Shar has no control over the ascension of new deities. Only Ao can regulate that.
And again, if Shar had to approve the rebirth of Mystra, why didn't she stop it on any of the prior occasions?
Mystryl may have been formed from Shar and Selūne, but there has never been the slightest indication that either deity has any power over her.
Mystra's prior rebirths, again, were just rebirths. She was not "new" as a deity.
They've made a big deal about the Spellplague being hugely different than Mystra's prior rebirths. In previous cases, Mystra's rebirth went off without Shar's interference because Shar didn't steal back her portion of Mystra's energy.
Mask was born of Shar's energy and didn't have any real power over him until she convinced him it was time for re-absorption. Similarly, Shar didn't have any direct influence over Mystra until Mystra lost control of her deific energy. When that happened in the Spellplague, Shar stole it back and is keeping Mystra from half of what she needs in order to be reborn.
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--Faraer |
Edited by - Eltheron on 08 Jun 2011 23:27:39 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2011 : 00:10:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
I think it's more that Ao has to approve new deities, or the changeover of portfolios when it's a brand new deity in a given job. If deities undergo re-birth (Lolth, Bane, Mystra, Amaunator), Ao doesn't appear to get involved. Similarly, if a current deity kills another and steals a given portfolio, Ao doesn't really get involved.
If it's a new ascension, then yes, he comes in to not only approve or disapprove but also to "set the rules" for the new deity in various respects.
Mystra, though, is an old deity and there really is no complete separation between Mystryl, Mystra1 and Mystra2. She is equal parts of Shar and Selune energy, and if she can't access both halves (perhaps because Shar took her part back) then Shar could indeed "block" Mystra's rebirth and Ao might not get involved at all.
Again, Shar has no control over the ascension of new deities. Only Ao can regulate that.
And again, if Shar had to approve the rebirth of Mystra, why didn't she stop it on any of the prior occasions?
Mystryl may have been formed from Shar and Selūne, but there has never been the slightest indication that either deity has any power over her.
Mystra's prior rebirths, again, were just rebirths. She was not "new" as a deity.
They've made a big deal about the Spellplague being hugely different than Mystra's prior rebirths. In previous cases, Mystra's rebirth went off without Shar's interference because Shar didn't steal back her portion of Mystra's energy.
Mask was born of Shar's energy and didn't have any real power over him until she convinced him it was time for re-absorption. Similarly, Shar didn't have any direct influence over Mystra until Mystra lost control of her deific energy. When that happened in the Spellplague, Shar stole it back and is keeping Mystra from half of what she needs in order to be reborn.
And Mystryl didn't lose control when Karsus stole her power from her?
Nothing in canon supports Shar being able to have any affect on Mystra, or on being able to stop the ascension of a new deity. Nothing. Deities are not her portfolio, and the fact that Mystryl was once part of Shar, millenia ago, is utterly irrelevant to the discussion. The two are entirely separate entities, with no connection at all between themselves. |
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Cyric
