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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jun 2011 : 21:23:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I'm guessing that evil spellcasting females in D&D are typically portrayed as dark priestesses of one sort or another. Even the goddesses Loviatar, Talona, Shar, and Bashaba are partly designed around sex appeal.
Females in fantasy, in general, are designed around sex appeal. They don't need to be in D&D or a goddess. And to this I react: 
Don't get me wrong, I'm more than happy to look at attractive females, particularly if they're not wearing a lot. But sometimes, in fantasy and sci-fi, it just gets ridiculous. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 06 Jun 2011 21:27:23 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2011 : 02:32:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I'm guessing that evil spellcasting females in D&D are typically portrayed as dark priestesses of one sort or another. Even the goddesses Loviatar, Talona, Shar, and Bashaba are partly designed around sex appeal.
Females in fantasy, in general, are designed around sex appeal. They don't need to be in D&D or a goddess. And to this I react:
Don't get me wrong, I'm more than happy to look at attractive females, particularly if they're not wearing a lot. But sometimes, in fantasy and sci-fi, it just gets ridiculous.
I'm very much inclined to agree. And a perfect example is the "pin-up" of the Black Widow in an old BATTLETECH supplement. It just doesn't "work." |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2011 : 03:33:55
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Haha, yeah. Besides the Bounty Hunter was better anyhow.
Perfect examples are all over D&D, lol almost every novel cover. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2011 : 03:58:39
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MrHedgehog,
Indeed, 24th level is high. But compared to the levels of their male counterparts (Sammaster, Szass Tam, Semmemon, Larloch...) it almost amounts to nothing.
Thay has always been gender-equal. That's one of the things I like about their society. Though the original Zulkirs were all males (from the very first Zulirate, which, if I remember it right, was never published, but Ed was so kind as to share it with us), when the females rose to power, they rose to power (period). Their foes or rivals were there to oppose them not because of their gender, but simply because they too wanted to rise in station and power. Of course, that the most powerful of them happens to be a male (Szass Tam, and the one before him who vanished without trace and whose name I can't recall atm) might be seen as another stereotyping.
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Brimstone and Kajehase,
Thanks! She looks quite interesting. Great art and a really beautiful woman. I'll try to find time to research more about her. (Did I mention I love necromancers? My books have a considerable number of them.)
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LK,
I wouldn't count Kiaransalee, in the same way I don't count Mystra when discussing about the most powerful spellcasters on Toril.
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Arik,
Not surprising. The path to lichdom requires a considerable knowledge and skills on necromantic magic. When they become liches, it's only natural that they continue their study on necromancy. That doesn't mean though that for female necromancers to be quite formidable they have to be liches. But, whether we like it or not, lichdom rather appears to be the pinnacle of necromancy.
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Wooly and Sage,
I think that depends on what sub-category of Fantasy we're talking about. Remember, Fantasy is a huge umbrella encompassing a plethora of subgenres. In Urban Fantasy, seeing those nearly naked females are quite normal. Unless modern civilizations adopt a fashion that involves dressing like mummies, we won't see the end of them... |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2011 : 17:35:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Don't get me wrong, I'm more than happy to look at attractive females, particularly if they're not wearing a lot. But sometimes, in fantasy and sci-fi, it just gets ridiculous.
-I just don't get it, nerds oogling over pictures of Eilistraee, or Lolthite Drow wearing very little. Not only are they not even Humans, but they're cartoons...
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
LK,
I wouldn't count Kiaransalee, in the same way I don't count Mystra when discussing about the most powerful spellcasters on Toril.
-Kiaransalee was once a mortal Necromancer, however. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 07 Jun 2011 17:35:58 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2011 : 19:34:40
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| I don't get it either, cartoon women don't interest me at all. Then again, some of those cosplay girls who mimic them are awfully cute. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 02:10:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Kiaransalee was once a mortal Necromancer, however.
There's an elaboration of the mortal Kiaransalee written by Rip Van Wormer over on planewalker.com. It's not entirely canon, but it does provide some rather thought-provoking stuff on the nature of necromancy. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2011 : 05:35:06
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LK,
So was Mystra (Midnight), and Cyric, Kelemvor, Velsharoon, and many others...So, no, I still wouldn't count her. Though I must say she was a quite formidable necromancer during her mortal existence. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 : 13:37:33
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Weren't there female necromancers of note in Halruaa? I remember only two renowned necromancers from the C&K trilogy---Akhlaur and the Archmage of the School of Necromancy. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2011 : 18:03:56
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There might be but if so, none of them were stated. I only pulled out the ones that were given stats.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Weren't there female necromancers of note in Halruaa? I remember only two renowned necromancers from the C&K trilogy---Akhlaur and the Archmage of the School of Necromancy.
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2011 : 03:42:25
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It would have been interesting if they were explicitly stated, though. But thanks, Kuje, for those female necromancers you noted. You just saved this (lackadaisical) scribe from doggedly perusing those old tomes. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2011 : 17:52:15
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No problem. :) I made my NPC lists for myself for exactly that reason. Plus, there were a lot of NPC's that I didn't remember even existing.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
It would have been interesting if they were explicitly stated, though. But thanks, Kuje, for those female necromancers you noted. You just saved this (lackadaisical) scribe from doggedly perusing those old tomes.
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2011 : 19:53:50
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Does Kiaransalee have Chosen? If yes, then they must be a bunch of quite formidable necromancers. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2011 : 16:13:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Does Kiaransalee have Chosen? If yes, then they must be a bunch of quite formidable necromancers.
I don't know about Chosen, but I know she likes her servants in the module... was it City of the Spider Queen? The one where Maerimydra's getting taken over by followers of Kiaransalee. That was a great module. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2012 : 01:44:40
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If Kiaransalee really has Chosen, shouldn't they be called Dread Mages? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2012 : 20:38:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
If Kiaransalee really has Chosen, shouldn't they be called Dread Mages?
If I had to pick a name... It'd be "Vengeful Witch"... though I imagine some might change out the W for a B |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2012 : 12:36:37
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| Pale Sybil from Final Gate is a necromancer - if I remember correctly. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2012 : 00:12:28
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Can anyone cite more examples of female necromancers in other settings? Not the ones in a plethora of Urban Fantasy, though. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2012 : 02:06:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Can anyone cite more examples of female necromancers in other settings? Not the ones in a plethora of Urban Fantasy, though.
Ischade the necromancer in Thieve's World, though she's not the classic necromancer with hordes of undead at their command. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2012 : 20:35:25
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| Zothique by Clark Ashton Smith has a few. And Akivasha from Conan. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2013 : 04:52:12
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Aye. And fairly recently, I got to know Isyllt Iskaldur, a spy, assassin, and necromancer featured in Amanda Downum's The Necromancer Chronicles. She's a disaster-magnet, probably the main thing that makes her always entertaining. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2013 : 05:10:45
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| I can't believe I'd forgotten to mention Abby van Alstine, the title character of The Necromancer comic book series published by Top Cow in 2005. That was always one of my favourite [and, unfortunately, short lived] Top Cow series. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2013 : 15:52:12
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Not archmage level, but Meralaine (a Chessantan necromancer featured in the Brotherhood of the Griffon series) carried herself quite splendidly in the many wars she fought with the brotherhood. And it is nice to see another well-fleshed-out mage from a realm that abhors magic and wizards. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lily M Green
Learned Scribe
Australia
115 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2013 : 13:11:21
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I'm not certain she counts as 'of note' but...
in Mel Odom's Threat From The Sea the paladin, Glawynn speaks of his twin sister, Cellayne, who apparently didn't join the family crusading business and chose instead to become a 'powerful necromancer' working the the Zhentarim. I'm not sure if she's mentioned anywhere else though. |
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
A Dark Alliance - Beyond Baldur's Gate |
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Alenis
Acolyte
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2013 : 11:52:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Marc
Pale Sybil from Final Gate is a necromancer - if I remember correctly.
That's right; she was powerful enough to prove a major threat to Araevin Teshuur AND his entire party. What was she supposed to be, exactly? If I remember correctly, she was a necromancer, but also some type of vampire that fed not on blood, but on magic & life energy/soul. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2013 : 05:58:49
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quote:
There's an elaboration of the mortal Kiaransalee written by Rip Van Wormer over on planewalker.com. It's not entirely canon, but it does provide some rather thought-provoking stuff on the nature of necromancy.
Sage, can you provide a direct link? I'm searching for it but havent found it yet.
Nevermind I just found it. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
Edited by - The Arcanamach on 06 Aug 2013 06:02:39 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2018 : 00:54:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Daviot
And here I thought necromancy and lichdom were unpopular with the ladies because it's hard to be a stereotypical Vain Sorceress when you're sporting that skeletal look. To each their own. 
Necromancy isn't just about animating the dead.
Bathing in the blood of virgins for that smooth-as-sin skincare, draining the youth and life energy of others to keep you young and stealing the bodies of the young and beautiful as vessels for your immortal soul, when your own body starts to fade, these are all feats of necromancy that have vanity as motivation.
I'm featuring a necromancer in my current campaign, Gula bit Kiqiluttu, who is very much a vain sorceress. Of course, I hope she isn't stereotypical, but she was certainly motivated in her studies of necromancy by a desire to be young and beautiful forever. Granted, she has other goals and motivations and is far from shallow, superficial or simple, but just because she's a conniving criminal mastermind who delves into the forbidden boundaries of life and death, it doesn't mean she has to look like she just crawled out of a mass grave.
Heroin chic is one thing, but La Flaca no es bonita, ese! |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2018 : 03:26:59
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| She'Liika D'Bone is my favorite female necromancer. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2018 : 10:56:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by Daviot
And here I thought necromancy and lichdom were unpopular with the ladies because it's hard to be a stereotypical Vain Sorceress when you're sporting that skeletal look. To each their own.
Necromancy isn't just about animating the dead.
Bathing in the blood of virgins for that smooth-as-sin skincare, draining the youth and life energy of others to keep you young and stealing the bodies of the young and beautiful as vessels for your immortal soul, when your own body starts to fade, these are all feats of necromancy that have vanity as motivation.
I'm featuring a necromancer in my current campaign, Gula bit Kiqiluttu, who is very much a vain sorceress. Of course, I hope she isn't stereotypical, but she was certainly motivated in her studies of necromancy by a desire to be young and beautiful forever. Granted, she has other goals and motivations and is far from shallow, superficial or simple, but just because she's a conniving criminal mastermind who delves into the forbidden boundaries of life and death, it doesn't mean she has to look like she just crawled out of a mass grave.
Heroin chic is one thing, but La Flaca no es bonita, ese!
By any chance is Icelander a female? I'd say this scroll res. counts as necromancy |
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Female Necromancers of Note
