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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 18 May 2011 :  20:56:39  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I'm back through my mobile phone to inquire about the following (Erik might have an answer but anyone with suggestions please give them). 
Where in the realms' Shadowfell would Gloomwrought be located? I imagine it about where Selgaunt is (or elsewhere in Sembia)...any suggestions on where to place it?
Also any other tips on adapting the new Shadowfell product to the realms?? Thanks!

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023

Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2011 :  00:16:03  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Excellent question, Alisttair!

A few thoughts about converting (though that sounds like a great DDI article, come to think of it):

- Gloomwrought can be the "shadow city" of any major port city in the Realms, but my favorite choices would be Waterdeep, Selgaunt, or Westgate. (Particularly cool if the governments cross over from time to time, or there are alliances/rivalries, etc.)

- The stuff about Letherna obviously you'd want to convert to Kelemvor's realm (or whoever happens to be your god of the dead of choice). I personally would keep the Raven Queen as an exarch of Kelemvor (perhaps she's a reflection/echo of long-lost Mystra, eh?), but there's been a big thread on that, so you'd want to refer there.

- Several of the NPCs can be reflavored (little or not at all) to be tied in with one of the organizations in FR. Netheril is an obvious choice, but also Thay, the Zhentarim, the Twisted Rune, etc.

Others' thoughts?

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 19 May 2011 :  05:59:10  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

- The stuff about Letherna obviously you'd want to convert to Kelemvor's realm (or whoever happens to be your god of the dead of choice). I personally would keep the Raven Queen as an exarch of Kelemvor (perhaps she's a reflection/echo of long-lost Mystra, eh?), but there's been a big thread on that, so you'd want to refer there.


-I've borrowed the concept in my own setting, and use her as what a 4e Forgotten Realms exarch is, as well.

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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe

Netherlands
423 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2011 :  08:25:22  Show Profile  Visit Tyranthraxus's Homepage  Click to see Tyranthraxus's MSN Messenger address Send Tyranthraxus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

<snip>

I personally would keep the Raven Queen as an exarch of Kelemvor (perhaps she's a reflection/echo of long-lost Mystra, eh?)

<snip>




Interesting idea Erik

As for the OP; I don't own the book (yet), but from what I've read I'd put it somewhere in Sembia due to its alliance with the Shadovar/Netheril.
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Alisttair
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Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2011 :  11:16:20  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree for putting it in Sembia due to the alliance with Netheril. I also jotted down what u said Erik.
I haven't read through the whole CG yet and only took a few looks in the adventure book but any suggestions on tying them in to a campaign featuring the Shades of Netheril as the primary enemy? (which is already underway and had the PCs run the adventures in the FRCG, Scepter Tower of Spellgard and the RPGA's Bane of Shadowa trilogy (1st of that done so far), with them eventually going to the past to run an adapted How the Mighty are Fallen.)

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
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Marc
Senior Scribe

618 Posts

Posted - 19 May 2011 :  20:47:30  Show Profile Send Marc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Personally I'd take Mulmaster, near the Ironfang Keep and shadowy magical experiments there. It has that oppressive atmosphere.

just by the map Sembian cities are a better fit

.
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2011 :  04:25:40  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@Alisttair: The Gloomwrought book is mostly appropriate for 7th level + PCs, generally paragon tier. So if you're going to have the PCs go there, either make sure they're powerful enough, or scale it down as needed.

If you wanted to, you could make Gloomwrought into Shade enclave itself, but probably it's better as an outpost or individual city.

A couple more ideas:

Consider converting Thyrin Gol into a shade outpost, populated mostly by their slave shadar-kai.

Prince Rolan of Gloomwrought might be recast as one of the princes, or he could be an independent contractor/vassal to them, who may or may not be loyal. A whole Netheril vs. Gloomwrought adventure could be a fun story.

EDIT: Gloomwrought could actually *be* Selgaunt, and the shades are in the process of taking it into the Shadowfell for their own nefarious purposes.

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)

Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 20 May 2011 06:09:32
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 20 May 2011 :  11:25:47  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Some mighty interesting ideas there Erik. If not for the surrounding bog type thing (name escapes me) that I like about Gloomwrought, I would definatley use it as Shade. Now I'm stuck between using it as a trade ally of Sembia or as a Sembian city being pulled into the Shadowfell (both excellent options).
My party is currently level 9 but will likely be level 10 when the current prepared material I have for them is played through at which point I will be able to intergrate Gloomwrought stuff with little disturbance to my notes lol
Regarding prince Rolan I'm of two minds for him from your idea. Either I replace him with one of the Princes of Shade OR at the point in which the PCs in my campaign slay the one that is their nemesis, Rolan will replace him as one of the twelve princes of Shade and maybe that could be the catalyst to bring Gloomwrought into the eqation as a city of Netheril in the shadowfell of Sembia and work it that way.
Also, I am curious, where would you recommend the "druid grove" destination of the portal at the Lantern be in the Realms (IIRC was it halflings using this as a trade route?)

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023

Edited by - Alisttair on 20 May 2011 11:36:27
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 22 May 2011 :  15:30:23  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What do you guys think of this (since my campaign is centered around Loudwater)
What if Gloomwrought is the shadow of Loudwater, being a dark metropolis by a big source of wate whereas Loudwater is a small town by the river?? (also lots of dark ones and shadar-Kai activity nearby with Netheril).
And with that, Oblivion Bog bein the shadow of the High Forest? 
Any suggestions if I work it this way?

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 23 May 2011 :  04:49:37  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Alisttair, that's actually a very neat concept. It explains why that (random!) dark creeper is there (the Lady of Shadows). I highly approve of that direction.

You might want to expand Loudwater in that case. Gloomwrought is a city of 12,000 or so people, so it would make sense for the mortal city to be that big--or *have been* that big at some point in the past. Ancient ruins beneath the city are a very Realmsy thing.

Loudwater could also be the reflection of a satellite (Thyrin Gol, for instance) and Gloomwrought itself a shadow of one of the nearby, larger cities (Silverymoon, for instance?).

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

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Diffan
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USA
3404 Posts

Posted - 23 May 2011 :  05:18:48  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

Alisttair, that's actually a very neat concept. It explains why that (random!) dark creeper is there (the Lady of Shadows). I highly approve of that direction.

You might want to expand Loudwater in that case. Gloomwrought is a city of 12,000 or so people, so it would make sense for the mortal city to be that big--or *have been* that big at some point in the past. Ancient ruins beneath the city are a very Realmsy thing.

Loudwater could also be the reflection of a satellite (Thyrin Gol, for instance) and Gloomwrought itself a shadow of one of the nearby, larger cities (Silverymoon, for instance?).

Cheers



I like the idea of Gloomrought being the Shadow Loud Water and I think it definitly adds more flavor and reasons for being in that po-dunk town longer than level 5 or 6. As for the Lady of Shadows, I made her a sort of independant scout/spy for the Shades of Netheril to scope out future places for domination. Since Loudwater is farily close the the once-Anauroch desert, it's a good assumption that she wasn't working alone.

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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 04 Jun 2011 :  00:47:02  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just realizes i'm at a disadvantage cause I don't have the 4 Manual of the Planes...
For anyone in the know who either has it, read it or wrote it, how much info on the Shadowfell am I missing by not having this?? If it's MUST BUY to run a good Shadowfell, what sort of info am I missing out on?

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 04 Jun 2011 :  16:52:22  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's not a *must* buy, but it's probably a *should* buy. Then again, your campaign might go in different directions and you don't need it. I suggest you hit a comics store, pick it up, and page through it.

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2011 :  01:07:27  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok I thin in going the route of it neon the shadow of Loudwater. So tell me what your opinions are on the shadow locations of the various areas from thus product (well the light side ones in faerun)...at least map doesn't have to be perfect but I figured these this way and it looks approximate I think:

the sea or lake (what's the name?) takes up Southwood and Highstar Lake
Gloomwrought for Loudwater
Dark Reach whaere the Graypeak mounts are
Dead Man's Cross in the norhtern High Moor (I'm thinking where the Barrow of the Ogre King sits...maybe Sancossugs ritual did something after all...)
Thyrin Gol at the Star Mounts
Oblivion Bog - The High Forest
Letherna - Grandfather Tree

so opinions/ideas

and sorry if lots of typos ba grammar punctuation etc using mobile device

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2011 :  10:57:19  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe it'll be easier if I scan my untalented map sketch of the shadowfell in that area that marks the faerunian locations as well...

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
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Lord Karsus
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USA
2885 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2011 :  18:09:10  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Partially related to the thread, but am I the only one that doesn't really like my planes to be mapped out? Don't get me wrong, I like being told about certain features, or places, but I don't like the concept of, say, the Plane of Shadow following a map, with X here, and Y, here, and these guys rule this area, and so on. Same thing with the Plane of Faerie, the Inner Planes, and basically all of them, except for maybe certain Demiplanes.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
565 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2011 :  18:15:06  Show Profile  Visit Cleric Generic's Homepage Send Cleric Generic a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The disclaimer I usually fall back on, Lord Karsus, is that maps of such atrange and cosmic places are about as accurate as a map made of our world by Flatlanders. That is, parts of it are vaguely accurate, but it's by no stretch the whole picture and like trying to make a 3d model of a 4d object. I think it's stated, or at least strongly hinted at, that time and space don't work the same was on the planes as on the material world, so the map's only as accurate as you want it to be at any given time anyway.

EDIT: for example, I like the 'maps' ofthe various DnD cosmological models, but usually assume that they're a partial understanding/symbolisation of one of many facets/layers/coexistent truths, etc...

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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4586 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2011 :  20:36:35  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage  Send Erik Scott de Bie an AOL message Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-Partially related to the thread, but am I the only one that doesn't really like my planes to be mapped out? Don't get me wrong, I like being told about certain features, or places, but I don't like the concept of, say, the Plane of Shadow following a map, with X here, and Y, here, and these guys rule this area, and so on. Same thing with the Plane of Faerie, the Inner Planes, and basically all of them, except for maybe certain Demiplanes.

It's particularly dodgy in the case of the Shadowfell, which is a reflection of many different mortal Worlds, and may indeed look different to different people, depending on what world they came from. Not to mention that as those worlds change, so too does the Shadowfell, and it's constantly refocusing as people come into it.

My own conception of the place is that everyone who enters the Shadowfell is like a mini darklord, and the Shadowfell tends toward a domain of dread for that person. The world warps a little around a visitor, resembling (more or less) a world that is simultaneously familiar and alien, depending on that person's background. More strong-willed (i.e. higher level) individuals have a more noticeable effect, and I don't imagine the PCs would ever find the Shadowfell turned into a "settled" place until at least epic level.

My intention with the geography in this product was generally much how LK put it: provide some themes, concepts, and some adventure sites, and let the DM connect the dots.

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Signature of Shameless Self-Promotion +6: Order my sixth novel, Shadow of the Winter King (Amazon, e-signing, Dragonmoon Press)

Also check out my Realms work, most recently Shadowbane: Eye of Justice, out now on e-readers everywhere! (Kindle, Nook)
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 15 Jun 2011 :  14:32:11  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-Partially related to the thread, but am I the only one that doesn't really like my planes to be mapped out? Don't get me wrong, I like being told about certain features, or places, but I don't like the concept of, say, the Plane of Shadow following a map, with X here, and Y, here, and these guys rule this area, and so on. Same thing with the Plane of Faerie, the Inner Planes, and basically all of them, except for maybe certain Demiplanes.



Regarding the planes, I'm good with not having planes such as elemental chaos, the abyss and astral plane mapped out. But planes that are mirrors in away such as the feywild and shadowfell it's nice and familiar yet different terrain gets a nice reaction from the players. Also I like putiing th maps side by side and comparing them for their similarities and differences.

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 15 Jun 2011 :  14:33:43  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Don't have my books with me, but what sort of body of water and what is te name of it (if any) that Gliomwrought is by again???

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
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Lord Karsus
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2885 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2011 :  05:37:20  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair

Regarding the planes, I'm good with not having planes such as elemental chaos, the abyss and astral plane mapped out. But planes that are mirrors in away such as the feywild and shadowfell it's nice and familiar yet different terrain gets a nice reaction from the players. Also I like putiing th maps side by side and comparing them for their similarities and differences.


-Those are the planes I specifically hate (a strong word, but...) being mapped out- especially Faerie. More on that in a minute. Planes that are directly conterminous with the Prime Material Plane, the specific map (as opposed to locations, ideas, hooks, people, etc., as mentioned by Erik and myself above) is going to be useless unless you're running a D&D game in "Points of Light" world (which, I don't know if WotC is still denying its existence, if it still is). The Plane of Shadows, for example, in the Forgotten Realms, is going to be different, because Abeir-Toril has a different topography.

-As for Faerie, I think maps of it detract from it's otherworldly and utterly magical nature. More specifically, I don't think that it should have set features, period.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 03 Jul 2011 :  01:25:48  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I did the map of the shadowfell area here I wanted to do. I even snuck in some extras in addition to the locales from the Gloomwrought product:

The shadowfell city from an old print f Dragon magazine (I forget the name) it's by a big chasm which also under a slightly different name in the Tome of Magic holds a cavern within which I added also
Added that cith which appears in Tome of Magic also
Put in the veil and a few other touchstone sites I think
added a lair for the Ogre King (who in my campaign lives in undeath here now)
The city of Manifest from th Ghostwalker 3e product just north of Letherna
I think a few other things but I'm in a car can't remember it all

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 03 Jul 2011 :  06:37:55  Show Profile  Send Lord Karsus an AOL message Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Wasn't the city of Manifest on the Ethereal Plane? Don't have that book anymore, so I can't check myself, but...

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

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Posted - 03 Jul 2011 :  07:24:24  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

-Wasn't the city of Manifest on the Ethereal Plane? Don't have that book anymore, so I can't check myself, but...

Not quite. Though, the City of Manifest does have a significant connection to the Ethereal Plane, via a unique phenomena known as the Ethereal Current.

Essentially, Manifest was set on the Hikirian peninsula of a stand-alone world, and built around the geological feature known as the Veil of Souls.

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Edited by - The Sage on 03 Jul 2011 07:26:00
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2011 :  19:43:55  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage  Click to see Alisttair's MSN Messenger address Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah Manifest isnt normally there but i figured it would be a good fit and is an excuse for me to make use of the Ghostwalk book.

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1153 Posts

Posted - 31 May 2014 :  20:58:56  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks to the Novels last threshold and the Companions, Gloomwrought is cannon in the city and yes the city is part of the Netheril Empire.
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